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<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<--->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lorn H. Olsen wrote: You might also want to look at...... We have had a number of discussions about this unit in the past but not lately. Well, we can have a discussion again. Let me start with the usual disclosure: Brent Regan and I have designed the hardware for the Sierra Flight Systems' EFIS products, are working on the certification program for the EFIS and continue to enjoy a close relationship with Sierra Flight Systems. While that gives everything I say a bias in favor of SFS, it also puts me in a position of speaking with experience that many others lack. Besides the SFS system, there are a number of other systems out there that are being advertised for a lot less cost. Why the price difference? Is it greed? Is it a case of "get whatever the market will bear?" Does the lower price come with a reduced quality? Does the higher price come with features not found on the lower price units, that you don't need anyway? Is the lower price the result of the seller not realizing the total cost of doing business? Think of the evolution of a typical product that comes out of a small company. It is usually designed by a pilot/engineer for his own use. Then others look at it and say wow, I want one too. And the person thinks great, I can make money selling this. The hardware costs me $1,000 (a purely hypothetical number), if I can get $2,000 for this, that will be a nice pocket change -- and a business is born, actually still born. With the sale of the product, comes the responsibility of support which may cost more then the profits on the sale. A response of "But it works fine in my plane" is not going to satisfy the customer who just bought the product and can not get it to work. Most people, myself included, often grossly underestimate the effort and time commitment required to support a product once it falls in the hands of customers. All it takes is one particularly troublesome installation and you can kiss all your profits good-bye. Blaming the customer, even if that is the real reason, does not work because the bad publicity from a couple of cases like that is going to kill the business. It is your fault after all, if your product is so complicated and finicky that an "average" customer can not install it. Over the years I have been involved with several small startup companies in various industries, usually as an outside consultant or an employee and in a couple of cases as a principal. Some companies have flourished, others have perished and yet other are still undecided which way they will go. But in all cases the company has been brought down by support and/or certification costs. When a company offers to sell its products for an ultra low price, I question the business acumen of the principals and the long term viability of the company. When a company brushes aside the cost and effort of certification, my skepticism increases a hundred fold. Then there is the issue of quality -- you usually get what you pay for. Will a $100 generic PC motherboard out of a desktop work in the cockpit? For the most part yes. Will it work as reliably as the $800 industrial computer? No. Will the $800 industrial computer work as well as the custom designed motherboard using industrial temperature chips, derated components, lightening protection and heavy duty cooling? Once again the answer is no. Even something as simple as the choice and installation of capacitors can make a huge difference. Most commercial boards use aluminum capacitors that are hanging by their two leads and no additional support. Hours of vibration in an airplane and you are guaranteed to break a lead. In this environment, most socketed components do not stand a chance for staying in their sockets without some kind of additional positive mechanical retention. How many commercial products have it? Most commercial product is designed to work in the temperature range of 0 to 45C typically. If you test it from -20C to +60C, you are likely to find that it will work OK. Does that mean that you can simply slap a -20C to 60C label on it and it is now a product intended for that temperature range? Is the display sunlight readable? Is the display dimmable to the point where you can read it at night? These are diametrically opposed requirements and are usually not available in an off the shelf backlight. Is that an issue? Do the buttons have high tactile feedback so that they can be operated in high turbulence environment? People have claimed that their systems meet all applicable TSO and DO160-D requirements. Maybe I have been shopping in all the wrong places, but I have not run across any off the shelf commercial or industrial hardware that is designed to meet these requirements. There is plenty of mill spec hardware that is designed to meet those requirements but you may have to trade in your plane plus a bunch of cash to get it. I truly question anyone's credibility and capability if they claim that their off the shelf commercial hardware meets "applicable" DO160-D requirements. A laptop, or a screwdriver for that matter, meet some of the requirements set forth in DO160-D but they meet very few of the requirements that are "applicable" to a Primary Flight Display. Then there is the little issue of software certification. It makes hardware certification look trivial. I also question the credibility of someone who brushes it aside as a trivial matter. And last but most importantly, how many of the systems are already flying. If the only flying system is that of the designer, then stay away from the product unless you are the type that loves to be the beta tester, because that is exactly what you are doing. There is nothing wrong with being a beta tester, just that you should know going in that that is what you are getting into. With every new installation, the designers learn something new and frequently there are significant changes after the first few installations. If a designer feels that they have refined the product enough by just flying it themselves, run, not walk, away from the product because the designer does not know what they are doing. If you are looking for a mature product, look for something that is flying in at least 10 different airplanes -- 20 would be better. And I hope you do know the difference between systems delivered and systems actually flying. I remember meeting the yahoos from Sierra Flight Systems 4 years ago, shortly after I watched them approach the airport by flying through an active parachute drop zone (OK, in their defense they were on an IFR flight plan on the VFR day and were vectored there). They had a neat product running on a hardware that was less than ideal, but the best that they could buy off the shelf. To their credit, they knew what they were lacking and knew what they needed and were not willing to settle for less. It has taken a few generations of hardware and a few price hikes to go from there to a certifiable box (it is not certified yet). The guys are no longer classified as the yahoos, but rather the respected leaders that others pay attention to. But there is plenty of space in the market for new yahoos as long as they too are willing and able to learn and mature. Remember a couple of years ago all that grant money passed out by the Feds to develop advanced avionics? Remember all the promises? SFS didn't apply for or receive any of those development funds but they have developed a better product than those that did. But don't take my word for it, ask the FAA. Chelton Flight Systems (SFS's new name) was selected by the FAA for Phase II of the Capstone Program in Alaska http://www.sierraflightsystems.com/articles/article14.htm. Before you tear up your panel, or design your new panel around the latest "low price leader" just keep in mind that you may (will) be getting what you pay for. Always remember..... The sky should be blue, not the earth. Hamid LML website: http://members.olsusa.com/mkaye/maillist.html LML Builders' Bookstore: http://www.buildersbooks.com/lancair Please remember that purchases from the Builders' Bookstore assist with the management of the LML. Please send your photos and drawings to marvkaye@olsusa.com.