Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.103] (HELO ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.2b3) with ESMTP id 85829 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:09:27 -0400 Received: from EDWARD (clt25-78-058.carolina.rr.com [24.25.78.58]) by ms-smtp-04-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i4NG9OVw003268 for ; Sun, 23 May 2004 12:09:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01c440e0$54324890$2402a8c0@EDWARD> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Two problems solved, 2 more pop up... Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:09:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0009_01C440BE.CCDB8940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C440BE.CCDB8940 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_000A_01C440BE.CCDB8940" ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C440BE.CCDB8940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MessageGood suggestion, Alex What I have used with excellent results and its available locally is = heavy duty cooking aluminum foil. I mix a little acetone with Silicone = sealer to thin it and then paint the fiberglass area with a brush. I = then lay the sheet of aluminum foil over the spread and pat/roll it down = firmly. It works well and is not as difficult to use as the thin = stainless. It will tear if you pull your screwdriver over it, but its = not fragile and its cheap..err inexpensive. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Alex Madsen=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:49 AM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Two problems solved, 2 more pop up... I would try aluminum tape for radiation shedding of the turbo after = shutdown. Just apply it to the cowl wherever you want some shielding. = It is sold in almost any hardware, and is designed for high temps.=20 =20 =20 ALUMINUM TAPE=20 Aluminum foil tape with self-adhesive backing seals = seams and joint openings when installing insulation. Forms a superior = bond to lock out air and moisture. Resistant to weather and temperature = extremes. 2"W. Available in 30 ft. and 150 ft.=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Recommended Accessories=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Item Description Unit SKU# Price Qty. Order =20 Aluminum Foil Tape, 150-ft. Length Each ZX814608Y $13.95 =20 =20 =20 Aluminum Foil Tape, 30-ft. Length Each ZX814607P $4.95 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Alex Madsen=20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] = On Behalf Of Steve Brooks Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:54 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Two problems solved, 2 more pop up... =20 Rusty, I now know what you mean about cooked items under the cowl. I = have been doing a lot of running with the cowl on lately. Luckily = cooling is no longer an issue. Can run more than an hour under 2300 RPM = with occasion bursts up to 35 MAP for up to 15 sec without overheating. = The big key in that was running 80% water antifreze and some water = wetter. Oil temps never a problem. =20 New problem: melt down after shut down. That turbo has a lot of = very hot mass. I flow enough air through the cowl when running to keep = things cool. Right after shut down the cowl is just luke warm to the = touch. But 5 min after shutting down the turbo side of the cowl is too = hot to touch on the top and I can smell resin. It gets a little soft to = tap on it and it is starting to look a little mottled and maybe yellow = (if I let my immagineation run away). I have seen a couple of RVs with = drop down hatches in the top cowl to let heat out after shut down. Does = anyone have an idea about how hot I can let the fiberglass get? Bright = Ideas? =20 I have the same problem, sort of. I put some thin stainless, about = like thick foil, on the top and bottom cowling above and below the = turbo. I was more interested in radiant heat getting to it in flight, = but it also works well for the heat after shut down. I just put it on = with 100% silicone rubber. The cowling still gets pretty warm, but not = hot. =20 =20 =20 New Problem: RMI tach no good. According to my RMI engine monitor I = have about 4300 RPM at 24 MAP. At 29 MAP I still only have about 4500 = RPM and at 35 MAP I am still at 4500 RPM static. I dont buy it because = it sure sounds different (faster). So I have to install an accessory = Tachometer.... Tracy, where was the Engine Monitor when I was building = the pannel? :-) I still have holes in my mixture map as every now = and then I pass through a hole and the mixture goes all haywire. =20 Like John mentioned, I used a pulse divider as well. I couldn't get = a reliable reading using the 12 pulse output. I divide by 6 using a = CMOS divider, which puts out pulses equivalent to a 4 cylider engine. = Most tachs will take that. If you want I can look up the part number = for the IC I used, but I think that it was a CD4060. =20 =20 =20 Old problem still not fixed: Low RPM: to keep it running it needs = to be rich, so much that I billow smoke down 400 yrds of hangars. It = comes out in billows every 2-3 seconds. Above 2200 RPM there are no = problems (never were). Will be trying some 460cc injectors instead of = the 550 primaries I currently have. If that dosen't work, the 2200 RPM = will have to be the idle speed. =20 =20 I have some tuning issues, but not that one. Mine idles great at = about 800, and runs great above 2000. Between those RPM's I have = issues, but I think that it's because I tuned the engine with a good = sized air leak. I'm going back to default, and starting over. =20 Steve Brooks Cozy MKIV N75CZ Turbo Rotary =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_000A_01C440BE.CCDB8940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
Good suggestion, Alex
 
    What I have used = with excellent=20 results and its available locally is heavy duty cooking aluminum = foil.  I=20 mix a little acetone with Silicone sealer to thin it and then paint the=20 fiberglass area with a brush.  I then lay the sheet of aluminum = foil over=20 the spread and pat/roll it down firmly.  It works well and is not = as=20 difficult to use as the thin stainless.  It will tear if you pull = your=20 screwdriver over it, but its not fragile and its  cheap..err=20 inexpensive.
 
Ed
 
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Alex=20 Madsen
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 = 11:49 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Two = problems=20 solved, 2 more pop up...

I would try = aluminum=20 tape for radiation shedding of the turbo after shutdown. Just apply it = to the=20 cowl wherever you want some shielding.  It is sold in almost any = hardware, and=20 is designed for high temps.

 

ALUMINUM=20 TAPE

Aluminum=20 foil tape with self-adhesive backing seals seams and = joint=20 openings when installing insulation. Forms a = superior bond=20 to lock out air and moisture. Resistant to weather = and=20 temperature extremes. 2"W. Available in 30 ft. and = 150 ft.=20

 

 

 

Recommended=20 Accessories

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Item=20 Description

Unit

SKU#

Price

Qty.

Order

Aluminum Foil=20 Tape, 150-ft. = Length

Each

ZX814608Y

$13.95

Aluminum Foil=20 Tape, 30-ft. = Length

Each

ZX814607P

$4.95

<= /FORM>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Alex Madsen =

 

-----Original=20 Message-----
From: = Rotary=20 motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] On Behalf Of Steve = Brooks
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:54 = AM
To: Rotary = motors in=20 aircraft
Subject: = [FlyRotary]=20 Re: Two problems solved, 2 more pop up...

 

Rusty,  I now=20 know what you mean about cooked items under the cowl.  I have = been doing=20 a lot of running with the cowl on lately.  Luckily cooling is no = longer=20 an issue.  Can run more than an hour under 2300 RPM with occasion = bursts=20 up to 35 MAP for up to 15 sec without overheating.  The big key = in that=20 was running 80% water antifreze and some water wetter.  Oil temps = never a=20 problem.

 

New = problem:  melt down after shut down.  That turbo has a lot = of very=20 hot mass.  I flow enough air through the cowl when running to = keep=20 things cool.  Right after shut down the cowl is just luke warm = to the=20 touch.  But 5 min after shutting down the turbo side of the = cowl is too=20 hot to touch on the top and I can smell resin.  It gets a = little=20 soft to tap on it and it is starting to look a little mottled = and maybe=20 yellow (if I let my immagineation run away).  I have seen a = couple of=20 RVs with drop down hatches in the top cowl to let heat out after = shut=20 down.  Does anyone have an idea about how hot I can let the = fiberglass=20 get?  Bright Ideas?

 

I = have the same=20 problem, sort of.  I put some thin stainless, about like thick = foil, on=20 the top and bottom cowling above and below the turbo.  I was = more=20 interested in radiant heat getting to it in flight, but it also = works well=20 for the heat after shut down.  I just put it on with 100% = silicone=20 rubber.  The cowling still gets pretty warm, but not=20 hot.

 

 

 

New = Problem: RMI=20 tach no good.  According to my RMI engine monitor I have about = 4300 RPM=20 at 24 MAP.  At 29 MAP I still only have about 4500 RPM and at = 35 MAP I=20 am still at 4500 RPM static.  I dont buy it because it sure = sounds=20 different (faster).  So I have to install an accessory=20 Tachometer....  Tracy, where was the Engine Monitor when I was = building=20 the pannel?  :-)    I still have holes in my = mixture map=20 as every now and then I pass through a hole and the mixture goes all = haywire.

 

Like John=20 mentioned, I used a pulse divider as well.  I couldn't get a = reliable=20 reading using the 12 pulse output.  I divide by 6 using a CMOS = divider,=20 which puts out pulses equivalent to a 4 cylider engine.  Most = tachs=20 will take that.  If you want I can look up the part number for = the IC I=20 used, but I think that it was a = CD4060.

 

 

 

Old = problem still=20 not fixed:  Low RPM: to keep it running it needs to be rich, so = much=20 that I billow smoke down 400 yrds of hangars.  It comes out in = billows=20 every 2-3 seconds.  Above 2200 RPM there are no problems (never = were).  Will be trying some 460cc injectors instead of the 550=20 primaries I currently have.  If that dosen't work, the 2200 RPM = will=20 have to be the idle speed.

 

 

I = have some=20 tuning issues, but not that one. Mine idles great at about 800, and = runs=20 great above 2000.  Between those RPM's I have issues, but = I think=20 that it's because I tuned the engine with a good sized air = leak.  I'm=20 going back to default, and starting = over.

 

Steve=20 Brooks

Cozy MKIV=20 N75CZ

Turbo=20 Rotary 

 

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