X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-KAS-Score: 0 [] From: "Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com" Received: from pmg.Logan.com ([207.170.160.161] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.4.0) with ESMTPS id 3853142 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:39:45 -0500 Received: from pmg.Logan.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 1A5DB1E9F5 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: Sender is authorized to use 'breytenbachleroux@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_netblocks.google.com' matched)) receiver=pmg.Logan.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="breytenbachleroux@gmail.com"; helo=mail-oa1-f41.google.com; client-ip=209.85.160.41 Received: from mail-oa1-f41.google.com (mail-oa1-f41.google.com [209.85.160.41]) by pmg.Logan.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2025 00:39:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oa1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2b5acf00c5bso2884306fac.0 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 21:39:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1740548377; x=1741153177; darn=lancaironline.net; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=D6D1QxlsJ2QWJyEIEMGC/BUvVdz/Eojwx6oMtWNb0ew=; b=ccaFAk9+p/oybHny4QAFhngd20NhDUAOhenjUljmbuwj1fAkDXp0wktGkmBd0HnYnN Lx8gMTX5JQc+MDgagxuf+9Ibbl6tWnrx18tHQq6NAQXAB9G2X9KdI8TaHd+h9+VbRwM4 zDW6EwjESjBziaO+jTs22gxvo9cTsVFnwJTg8hETuHsK0b2KB8VCClB/uvVmI31JhatK I6UMP8taCPHkmE8n2snPTl0AoBX3FL3YazioiNcOk1mugqYavwJNNuqCUbNso1RH+UjF 9sYJ3Ay2EXVGoAUjcnnPy9ywKSyWXX/zhfP6n8RohJ8flHS778sw6jntFDeNqMLbn3O8 ApLA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1740548377; x=1741153177; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=D6D1QxlsJ2QWJyEIEMGC/BUvVdz/Eojwx6oMtWNb0ew=; b=umEJmvEvNClQEvMvurtrQT45ABDxF9rzX/hgViQUPmUAVMziOayuxum/5r5EmwQPqo /V7Lhb89r8BjdMBgFIT6lG2xenvi8JPWIivh7Q+tEm3Ehu670ZZKpDlaAd+WhcJ2c3Kz 1oaLRq2C69UJR3zL/6/jUr5S5r1vl5lDbbuO7fJMX8GljlHJCizQ0Bq7P6tMr9WeqYLK bZscryj596yJtSlfD0tY2uEPrwuehNoBaG0ZwYO3KyS1RPeBxH7rfDcJEWzzcbufzBaP udXjlcJrEB/qNnn8+HIsjeA0oBpfbT6bnsdVTeMs7eNou5qz8dkXm9/kwxMsOWveB5LY GHig== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxOLDp+/wrdFt7mXvaJst8kEXReP/KJ1JabWbjVWJiO74eSOpDd UrbIbFJkmPDvb+/MGb7OrYfpnE2tX0XKe1tkehaLwrXStjFEEc+adhPqjTlP6vgLrknUjTac93B gcHwbDUB2124NFBv8jj/R+aQUFWBVZA== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncs1Q0boyy8cY/9XlaBpZ7763s5isbZuMlsbuAju3Rqg7q0S75l9jkRIfAT9Wqq JQWv6+Vrta7W213mOteHLwxL1O+u5sGUC3NU1Xkl4jgQV3yGGPBfZDwNUi3mokHi3pCB5f2rAIt lzSuoo6GIg9A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IE6PjcA7zrJYxIqHHMJXNHLxw8zdyhKBf/aSXxL+S9m2D9O6vFJMuPTx34XqAGShsE917ptyhz5lSuyqikltAg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:31c4:b0:29e:5dfd:1e17 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-2c1303aca20mr1386482fac.23.1740548375670; Tue, 25 Feb 2025 21:39:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 07:39:22 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JpZy7z_wgD5qOJx4mbGwgLOJ8XEwMrzrtHK3oyQ4RdvXf2Dtc0GGHNkq0s Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel injection Diagram To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a576a1062f04ff93" X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 1 AWL -0.068 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain DMARC_PASS -0.1 DMARC pass policy FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider FREEMAIL_REPLY 1 From and body contain different freemails HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message KAM_LINEPADDING 1.2 Spam that tries to get past blank line filters KAM_MXURI 1.5 URI begins with a mail exchange prefix, i.e. mx.[...] RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to DNSWL was blocked. 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See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [flyrotary.com,lancaironline.net] WEIRD_PORT 0.001 Uses non-standard port number for HTTP --000000000000a576a1062f04ff93 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve : Here is a link to the proposed fuel diagram, as the mail came back and said the attachment is more than 300 kb https://drive.google.com/open?id=3D1jgom79w_4nEnUL4K9gcyxe6bwD-de-BX The height is all on the floor just before the spar - in the middle is a console between the 2 front seats I thought that walbro pumps also need a feeding pump and don't whant to "suck fuel" If i can go with only the 2 high pressure pumps that will be first choice. So the Walbro pumps just need a pre-filter then after the pumps a final fine high pressure filter for the injectors? The return line is after the pressure regulator and runs back to the one wingtank (Right) with no valve free flo Le Roux On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 6:28=E2=80=AFAM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.c= om < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi le Roux > > Sorry about the delay I getting back to you. > > I don't know the position/heights of the various component and therefore > the lift that the pumps need to work to. > My questions are: > 1. Is there a need for the facet pumps? Walbro pumps for example specify = a > >50 inch lift. Deleting 2 pumps, 2 filters, 2 check values reduces failur= e > points, cost and complexity > 2. Could you utilise a duplex valve returning fuel to the tank it came > from? > > Warm regards > > Steve > > > > > On 25 Feb 2025, at 2:17=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach > breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks Steve got it ! > After all the info and inputs, my thoughts still pussing for a left and > right tank set up > > Faset pumps for each wing - then fuel selector then to high pressure pump= s > ( 2 in parallel) filters before each pump , fuel pressure regulator and > return to one wing. > > This is what i have in mind - don=E2=80=99t know if this is redundant eno= ugh left > and right seperate from each other ? > > Sent from my iPhone > Le Roux Breytenbach > > On 22 Feb 2025, at 10:55, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BFHi Le Roux > > Your gut is correct, the Glasair has a single tip to tip main wing tank > with flapper values to keep fuel somewhat balanced across the tank. > Yes, the facet pumps (two in series - main and backup) pump the main wing > fuel into the header that then overflows back into the centre of the main > tank. > So all fuel is continuously being circulated through the main filter into > the header and back again. > There is no fuel tank selection. > During my preflight walk around I always check the header tank is full. > > I have a microcontroller I call my =E2=80=98CoPilot' managing a series of= things > onboard. > Two of those functions are: > 1. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel Pressure at the engine fuel rail an= d > switch on the backup engine fuel pump. > 2. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel Transfer between wing and header an= d > switch on backup transfer pump. > Both these Automatic Backups are checklist tested before flight. > a. Turn OFF main fuel pump, backup activates so engine continues to run, > and CoPilot LED changes from Solid to Flashing indicating the backup has > been triggered. > While IAS below ~60 Knots(as in we're not flying) by pressing the CoPilot > BUTTON, the system is reset/rearmed. > b. Turn OFF main transfer pump=E2=80=A6. Same processs as above. > These system tests take about 5 seconds to carry out and are done after > startup along with testing computer B and Coils. (Tracy=E2=80=99s EC2) > > There is also capacitive senders in the tanks with alarms. > If the header tank level drop below near full, I get an audible voice > alarm, and if the transfer flow drops I get an audible voice alarm which > means I either have a transfer pump failure or the Wing tank just emptied > leaving me on my header tank reserve of 28L > > Steve > > > > > > > > > On 22 Feb 2025, at 4:17=E2=80=AFpm, Le Roux Breytenbach > breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: > > Thanks guys for all your inputs much appreciated. > Stephen so there is no fuel selection from one tank to the other in your > set up.? Or do you select left or right tank with faset pumps for each > wingtank ? > 152 L seems to me are both wings together as i have also a composite wing= .. > The header tank flow back to only one wingtank or both ? > > Regards Le Roux > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail= .com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Hi LeRoux >> >> Here is my setup >> >> Steve Izett >> Glasair Super IIRG >> >> >> >> > On 22 Feb 2025, at 12:14=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach >> breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: >> > >> > Hi : Do somebody have a schematic drawing ? Of a typical low wing >> experimental aircraft fuel system to the 13B. >> > Can=E2=80=99t find good detail info. >> > The feed from the wings to the high pressure fuelpumps. >> > Where to place the low pressure fuel pumps and then to fuel injection >> pumps. >> > Must i do a header tank ? or not.Must the high pressure pumps be insid= e >> or outside on the firewall? >> > >> > Regards Le Roux >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > Le Roux Breytenbach >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > > > --000000000000a576a1062f04ff93 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Steve : Here is a link to the proposed fuel diagram, as th= e mail came back and said the attachment is more than 300 kb

<= div>

The height is = all on the floor just before the spar - in the middle is a console between = the 2 front seats=C2=A0
I thought that walbro pumps also need a f= eeding pump and don't whant=C2=A0to "suck fuel"=C2=A0 If i ca= n go with only the 2 high pressure pumps that will be first choice.
So the Walbro pumps just need a pre-filter then = after the pumps a final fine high pressure filter for the injectors?=C2=A0<= /div>
The return line is after the pressure regulator and runs back to = the one wingtank=C2=A0(Right) with no valve free flo

Le Roux



On Wed, Feb 26, 2025 at 6:28= =E2=80=AFAM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote= :
Hi le Rou= x

Sorry about the delay I getting back to you.

I don't know the position/heights of the various compon= ent and therefore the lift that the pumps need to work to.
My que= stions are:=C2=A0
1. Is there a need for the facet pumps? Walbro = pumps for example specify a >50 inch lift. Deleting 2 pumps, 2 filters, = 2 check values reduces failure points, cost and complexity
2. Cou= ld you utilise a duplex valve returning fuel to the tank it came from?

Warm regards

Steve
=



On 25 Feb 2025, at 2:17=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.co= m <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=
Thanks Steve got it !=C2=A0
After al= l the info and inputs, my thoughts still pussing for a left and right tank = set up=C2=A0

Faset pumps f= or each wing - then fuel selector then to high pressure pumps ( 2 in parall= el) filters before each pump , fuel pressure regulator and return to one wi= ng.

This is what i have in= mind - don=E2=80=99t know if this is redundant enough left and right seper= ate from each other ?
<= ;image0.jpeg>
Sent from my iPhone
L= e Roux Breytenbach=C2=A0

On 22 Feb 2025, at 10:55, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancair= online.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHi Le Roux

Your gut is correct, t= he Glasair has a single tip to tip main wing tank with flapper values to ke= ep fuel somewhat balanced across the tank.
Yes, the facet pumps (= two in series - main and backup) pump the main wing fuel into the header th= at then overflows back into the centre of the main tank.
So all f= uel is continuously being circulated through the main filter into the heade= r and back again.
There is no fuel tank selection.=C2=A0
During my preflight walk around I always check the header tank is full.

I have a microcontroller I call my =E2=80=98CoPilot= ' managing a series of things onboard.
Two of those functions= are:
1. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel Pressure at the engin= e fuel rail and switch on the backup engine fuel pump.
2. Automat= ically sense a drop in Fuel Transfer between wing and header and switch on = backup transfer pump.
Both these Automatic Backups are checklist = tested before flight.
a. Turn OFF main fuel pump, backup activates so engine continues to run, = and CoPilot LED changes from Solid to Flashing indicating the backup has be= en triggered.
While = IAS below ~60 Knots(as in we're not flying) by pressing the CoPilot BUT= TON, the system is reset/rearmed.
b. Turn OFF main transfer pump=E2=80=A6. Same processs as abo= ve.
These system tests take about 5 seconds to carry out and are = done after startup along with testing computer B and Coils. (Tracy=E2=80=99= s EC2)

There is also capacitive senders in the tan= ks with alarms.=C2=A0
If the header tank level drop below near fu= ll, I get an audible voice alarm, and if the transfer flow drops I get an a= udible voice alarm which means I either have a transfer pump failure or the= Wing tank just emptied leaving me on my header tank reserve of 28L

Steve



<= div>




On 22 Feb 2025, at 4:17=E2=80=AFpm, Le Roux Brey= tenbach br= eytenbachleroux@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks guys for all your inputs much appreciated.=C2= =A0
Stephen so there is no fuel selection from one tank to the other in= your set up.? Or do=C2=A0you select left or right tank with faset=C2=A0pum= ps for each wingtank ?
152 L seems to me are both wings together = as i have=C2=A0also a composite wing..
The header tank flow back to= only one wingtank=C2=A0or both ?=C2=A0

Regards Le= Roux





<= /div>

On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmai= l.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi LeRoux

Here is my setup

Steve Izett
Glasair Super IIRG



> On 22 Feb 2025, at 12:14=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail= .com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Hi : Do somebody have a schematic drawing ? Of a typical low wing expe= rimental aircraft fuel system to the 13B.
> Can=E2=80=99t find good detail info.
> The feed from the wings to the high pressure fuelpumps.
> Where to place the low pressure fuel pumps and then to fuel injection = pumps.
> Must i do a header tank ? or not.Must the high pressure pumps be insid= e or outside on the firewall?
>
> Regards Le Roux
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Le Roux Breytenbach
>
> --
> Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http:/= /mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail= .lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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