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[203.59.74.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 41be03b00d2f7-aedaab2ea10sm2150615a12.65.2025.02.25.19.47.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Feb 2025 19:47:35 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_45635483-6A56-478F-9D34-D42C4C5F9AD1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.200.121\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Fuel injection Diagram Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2025 11:47:18 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <99532EE0-C4F4-4C23-BD68-1E7A3764858E@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.200.121) X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL -0.626 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain DMARC_PASS -0.1 DMARC pass policy FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider FREEMAIL_REPLY 1 From and body contain different freemails HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message KAM_MXURI 1.5 URI begins with a mail exchange prefix, i.e. mx.[...] RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3 0.001 Good reputation (+3) RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL 0.001 Mailspike good senders SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record WEIRD_PORT 0.001 Uses non-standard port number for HTTP --Apple-Mail=_45635483-6A56-478F-9D34-D42C4C5F9AD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi le Roux Sorry about the delay I getting back to you. I don't know the position/heights of the various component and therefore = the lift that the pumps need to work to. My questions are:=20 1. Is there a need for the facet pumps? Walbro pumps for example specify = a >50 inch lift. Deleting 2 pumps, 2 filters, 2 check values reduces = failure points, cost and complexity 2. Could you utilise a duplex valve returning fuel to the tank it came = from? Warm regards Steve > On 25 Feb 2025, at 2:17=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach = breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: >=20 > Thanks Steve got it !=20 > After all the info and inputs, my thoughts still pussing for a left = and right tank set up=20 >=20 > Faset pumps for each wing - then fuel selector then to high pressure = pumps ( 2 in parallel) filters before each pump , fuel pressure = regulator and return to one wing. >=20 > This is what i have in mind - don=E2=80=99t know if this is redundant = enough left and right seperate from each other ? > > Sent from my iPhone > Le Roux Breytenbach=20 >=20 >> On 22 Feb 2025, at 10:55, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >>=20 >> =EF=BB=BFHi Le Roux >>=20 >> Your gut is correct, the Glasair has a single tip to tip main wing = tank with flapper values to keep fuel somewhat balanced across the tank. >> Yes, the facet pumps (two in series - main and backup) pump the main = wing fuel into the header that then overflows back into the centre of = the main tank. >> So all fuel is continuously being circulated through the main filter = into the header and back again. >> There is no fuel tank selection.=20 >> During my preflight walk around I always check the header tank is = full. >>=20 >> I have a microcontroller I call my =E2=80=98CoPilot' managing a = series of things onboard. >> Two of those functions are: >> 1. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel Pressure at the engine fuel = rail and switch on the backup engine fuel pump. >> 2. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel Transfer between wing and = header and switch on backup transfer pump. >> Both these Automatic Backups are checklist tested before flight. >> a. Turn OFF main fuel pump, backup activates so engine continues = to run, and CoPilot LED changes from Solid to Flashing indicating the = backup has been triggered. >> While IAS below ~60 Knots(as in we're not flying) by pressing = the CoPilot BUTTON, the system is reset/rearmed. >> b. Turn OFF main transfer pump=E2=80=A6. Same processs as above. >> These system tests take about 5 seconds to carry out and are done = after startup along with testing computer B and Coils. (Tracy=E2=80=99s = EC2) >>=20 >> There is also capacitive senders in the tanks with alarms.=20 >> If the header tank level drop below near full, I get an audible voice = alarm, and if the transfer flow drops I get an audible voice alarm which = means I either have a transfer pump failure or the Wing tank just = emptied leaving me on my header tank reserve of 28L >>=20 >> Steve >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 22 Feb 2025, at 4:17=E2=80=AFpm, Le Roux Breytenbach = breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: >>>=20 >>> Thanks guys for all your inputs much appreciated.=20 >>> Stephen so there is no fuel selection from one tank to the other in = your set up.? Or do you select left or right tank with faset pumps for = each wingtank ? >>> 152 L seems to me are both wings together as i have also a composite = wing.. >>> The header tank flow back to only one wingtank or both ?=20 >>>=20 >>> Regards Le Roux >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@gmail.com = > = wrote: >>>> Hi LeRoux >>>>=20 >>>> Here is my setup >>>>=20 >>>> Steve Izett >>>> Glasair Super IIRG >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> > On 22 Feb 2025, at 12:14=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach = breytenbachleroux@gmail.com = > = wrote: >>>> >=20 >>>> > Hi : Do somebody have a schematic drawing ? Of a typical low wing = experimental aircraft fuel system to the 13B. >>>> > Can=E2=80=99t find good detail info. >>>> > The feed from the wings to the high pressure fuelpumps. >>>> > Where to place the low pressure fuel pumps and then to fuel = injection pumps. >>>> > Must i do a header tank ? or not.Must the high pressure pumps be = inside or outside on the firewall? >>>> >=20 >>>> > Regards Le Roux >>>> >=20 >>>> > Sent from my iPhone >>>> > Le Roux Breytenbach=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > -- >>>> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> > Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_45635483-6A56-478F-9D34-D42C4C5F9AD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi le = Roux

Sorry about the delay I getting back to = you.

I don't know the position/heights of the = various component and therefore the lift that the pumps need to work = to.
My questions are: 
1. Is there a need for = the facet pumps? Walbro pumps for example specify a >50 inch lift. = Deleting 2 pumps, 2 filters, 2 check values reduces failure points, cost = and complexity
2. Could you utilise a duplex valve returning = fuel to the tank it came from?

Warm = regards

Steve


=


On 25 Feb 2025, at 2:17=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux = Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thanks Steve got it = ! 
After all the info and inputs, my thoughts still pussing for a = left and right tank set up 

Faset pumps for each wing - = then fuel selector then to high pressure pumps ( 2 in parallel) filters = before each pump , fuel pressure regulator and return to one = wing.

This is what i have in mind - don=E2=80=99t know if this is = redundant enough left and right seperate from each other ?
<image0.jpeg>=
Sent from my iPhone
Le Roux = Breytenbach 

On 22 Feb 2025, at 10:55, Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHi Le Roux

Your gut = is correct, the Glasair has a single tip to tip main wing tank with = flapper values to keep fuel somewhat balanced across the = tank.
Yes, the facet pumps (two in series - main and backup) = pump the main wing fuel into the header that then overflows back into = the centre of the main tank.
So all fuel is continuously being = circulated through the main filter into the header and back = again.
There is no fuel tank selection. 
During = my preflight walk around I always check the header tank is = full.

I have a microcontroller I call my = =E2=80=98CoPilot' managing a series of things onboard.
Two of = those functions are:
1. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel = Pressure at the engine fuel rail and switch on the backup engine fuel = pump.
2. Automatically sense a drop in Fuel Transfer between = wing and header and switch on backup transfer pump.
Both these = Automatic Backups are checklist tested before flight.
a. Turn = OFF main fuel pump, backup activates so engine continues to run, and = CoPilot LED changes from Solid to Flashing indicating the backup has = been triggered.
While IAS below ~60 Knots(as in = we're not flying) by pressing the CoPilot BUTTON, the system is = reset/rearmed.
b. Turn OFF main transfer = pump=E2=80=A6. Same processs as above.
These system tests take = about 5 seconds to carry out and are done after startup along with = testing computer B and Coils. (Tracy=E2=80=99s = EC2)

There is also capacitive senders in the = tanks with alarms. 
If the header tank level drop below = near full, I get an audible voice alarm, and if the transfer flow drops = I get an audible voice alarm which means I either have a transfer pump = failure or the Wing tank just emptied leaving me on my header tank = reserve of = 28L

Steve








On 22 Feb 2025, at 4:17=E2=80=AFpm, Le Roux = Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thanks guys = for all your inputs much appreciated. 
Stephen so there is no = fuel selection from one tank to the other in your set up.? Or = do you select left or right tank with faset pumps for each = wingtank ?
152 L seems to me are both wings together as i = have also a composite wing..
The header tank flow back to = only one wingtank or both ? 

Regards = Le = Roux





<= /div>

On Sat, Feb 22, 2025 at 8:57=E2=80=AFAM Stephen = Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:
Hi LeRoux

Here is my setup

Steve Izett
Glasair Super IIRG



> On 22 Feb 2025, at 12:14=E2=80=AFam, Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Hi : Do somebody have a schematic drawing ? Of a typical low wing = experimental aircraft fuel system to the 13B.
> Can=E2=80=99t find good detail info.
> The feed from the wings to the high pressure fuelpumps.
> Where to place the low pressure fuel pumps and then to fuel = injection pumps.
> Must i do a header tank ? or not.Must the high pressure pumps be = inside or outside on the firewall?
>
> Regards Le Roux
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> Le Roux Breytenbach
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml
=


= --Apple-Mail=_45635483-6A56-478F-9D34-D42C4C5F9AD1--