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[203.59.74.185]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-211056edb4csm68007865ad.58.2024.11.04.18.38.25 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 04 Nov 2024 18:38:26 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C0E9D283-F41D-4DBD-AB09-7BD2E9831819" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3818.100.11.1.3\)) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Renesis oil pressure Date: Tue, 5 Nov 2024 10:38:14 +0800 References: To: Rotary motors in aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3818.100.11.1.3) X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL 0.252 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain DMARC_PASS -0.1 DMARC pass policy FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider FREEMAIL_REPLY 1 From and body contain different freemails HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 -0.001 Average reputation (+2) SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record --Apple-Mail=_C0E9D283-F41D-4DBD-AB09-7BD2E9831819 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Andrew.=20 I have used various weight oils. Not a huge difference. Is your engine a Seres 1 or 2? Do you have a log of oil pressures and temps to compare with mine. I was under the impression that other rotaries increase in pressure = substantially with rpm. Steve > On 5 Nov 2024, at 8:48=E2=80=AFam, Andrew Martin = andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: >=20 > Steve, why such a heavy weight oil?=20 > Maybe try a 5w30 mineral or semi syn oil. > Andrew >=20 > On Tue, 5 Nov 2024, 06:56 Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = , > wrote: >> Thanks Doug. Yes, Racingbeat does have some helpful material. >>=20 >> My question is the =E2=80=98why=E2=80=99 the lowish oil pressure on = RPM rise? >>=20 >> NOTE: I did have a very high rpm and therefore high pressure event on = initial start years ago that may have damaged something in the oil = system path. >> I=E2=80=99m endeavouring to discover what this might be. >>=20 >> Recent and consistent data: (Renesis Series #1 4 Port with MT CS Prop = - Oil Pressure reading tested within ~2psi, Oil is Synthetic 20W60, 44 = Row Mocal Oil Cooler) >>=20 >> Lined Up Before TakeOff OAT 74F 60psi @ 2100rpm OilT = 142F >> Wide Open Throttle +10 seconds 65psi @ 7200rpm >> +2 mins (WOT and CS Prop Set) 51psi @ 6400rpm OilT = peaks 207F >>=20 >> So Oil Pressure only rises from 60 to 65psi after 2100->7200rpm = (5100rpm increase) >> Oil temp increase & viscosity decease has Oil Pressure then settle = down to 51psi. >>=20 >> I think I have clarified in the last day that the Renesis series 1 = front cover to front iron path uses a metal gasket =E2=80=98without' an = o-ring. >> This discounts the possibility of an o-ring failure causing oil to be = dumped back into sump just after the pump. >> It appears I was led astray by a schematic drawing that showed the = RX8 series 1 oil system as having an o-ring seal in the front cover to = iron path. >>=20 >> So, I am now investigating the likelihood of the following possible = failure points and the work required before committing and jumping into = getting dirty.=20 >> 1. Pump - Could the pump be damaged? >> 2. Front relief valve - Could the Spring break or otherwise be = cracking at a much lower pressure? >> 3. Rear relief valve - Same as for 2. Above. >> 4. Thermal Pellet delete - Could I have messed this up or damaged the = oil path when I replaced the OEM pellet with Tracy=E2=80=99s part. >>=20 >> My assumptions include: >> 1. The Mocal 44 Row Oil Cooler will have a lower pressure drop than = the OEM cooler/s >> 2. Oil Pressure should rise to Rear Relief Valve Pressure + some, = maybe 75psi @ >6000rpm in a Series #1. >>=20 >> Appreciate further consideration as I try and figure this out. >>=20 >> Thanks >>=20 >> Steve=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On 4 Nov 2024, at 8:31=E2=80=AFpm, DOUGLAS LOMHEIM dlomheim@aol.com = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFRacing Beat has always provided good background info, and = here=E2=80=99s a link to their discussion / products to increase oil = pressure=E2=80=A6 >>>=20 >>> Rotary Tech Tips: Oil Cooling Tips >>> racingbeat.com >>> = Rotary Tech Tips: Oil Cooling Tips = >>> racingbeat.com = = >>> = = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Doug >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 --Apple-Mail=_C0E9D283-F41D-4DBD-AB09-7BD2E9831819 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Andrew. 

I have used various weight oils. Not a = huge difference.
Is your engine a Seres 1 or 2?
Do = you have a log of oil pressures and temps to compare with = mine.
I was under the impression that other rotaries increase = in pressure substantially with rpm.

Steve

On 5 Nov 2024, at 8:48=E2=80=AFam, Andrew Martin = andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

Steve, why such a heavy weight oil? 
Maybe try a 5w30 mineral or semi syn oil.
Andrew

On Tue, 5 Nov 2024, 06:56 Stephen Izett = stephen.izett@gmail.com, = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Thanks Doug. Yes, Racingbeat does = have some helpful material.

My question is the = =E2=80=98why=E2=80=99 the lowish oil pressure on RPM = rise?

NOTE: I did have a very high rpm and = therefore high pressure event on initial start years ago that may have = damaged something in the oil system path.
I=E2=80=99m = endeavouring to discover what this might = be.

Recent and consistent data: (Renesis Series = #1 4 Port with MT CS Prop - Oil Pressure reading tested within ~2psi, = Oil is Synthetic 20W60, 44 Row Mocal Oil = Cooler)

= Lined Up Before TakeOff OAT 74F  60psi @ 2100rpm OilT = 142F
Wide Open = Throttle +10 seconds =   65psi @ = 7200rpm
+2 mins = (WOT and CS Prop Set) = 51psi @ 6400rpm OilT peaks 207F

So = Oil Pressure only rises from 60 to 65psi after 2100->7200rpm (5100rpm = increase)
Oil temp increase & viscosity decease has Oil = Pressure then settle down to 51psi.

I = think I have clarified in the last day that the Renesis series 1 front = cover to front iron path uses a metal gasket =E2=80=98without' an = o-ring.
This discounts the possibility of an o-ring failure = causing oil to be dumped back into sump just after the = pump.
It appears I was led astray by a schematic drawing that = showed the RX8 series 1 oil system as having an o-ring seal in the front = cover to iron path.

So, I am now investigating = the likelihood of the following possible failure points and the work = required before committing and jumping into getting = dirty. 
1. Pump - Could the pump be damaged?
2. = Front relief valve - Could the Spring break or otherwise be cracking at = a much lower pressure?
3. Rear relief valve - Same as for 2. = Above.
4. Thermal Pellet delete - Could I have messed this up = or damaged the oil path when I replaced the OEM pellet with Tracy=E2=80=99= s part.

My assumptions = include:
1. The Mocal 44 Row Oil Cooler will have a lower = pressure drop than the OEM cooler/s
2. Oil Pressure should = rise to Rear Relief Valve Pressure + some, maybe 75psi  @ = >6000rpm in a Series #1.

Appreciate = further consideration as I try and figure this = out.

Thanks

Steve <= /div>







=EF=BB=BFRacing = Beat has always provided good background info, and here=E2=80=99s a link = to their discussion / products to increase oil = pressure=E2=80=A6

<f= avicon.ico>


Doug

Sent from my = iPhone


= --Apple-Mail=_C0E9D283-F41D-4DBD-AB09-7BD2E9831819--