X-CGP-ClamAV-Result: CLEAN X-VirusScanner: Niversoft's CGPClamav Helper v1.23.0 (ClamAV engine v0.103.0) X-Junk-Score: 40 [XX] X-KAS-Score: 40 [XX] From: "Mark McClure mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ej1-f43.google.com ([209.85.218.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.3.13) with ESMTPS id 1324404 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 07:55:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.43; envelope-from=mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com Received: by mail-ej1-f43.google.com with SMTP id y3so21645998ejc.1 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 04:55:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc; bh=PVZG7oWzDBtUMseNBUnzZhc0O3W35PkA0oo1BQ55IrI=; b=V/SQ548Ktu67BdoyB+jyc6sdNgqQ9e3zA/vL/Rzb8czqP58n0oIPwuHe9IdToC4blI k7IleS9rmGW5aTh0GDWQKukYh2ojHWw9Mv7SKIUKR/8Ijgd0f74rt5ox0rOh19B7pwcl sqSW0PF4MjOGkIYxBpLE697oEtJFgDepnKh482mAZgDaQuttYfX4SB4tI+ETnVIX7HM4 QSRFITY5gZagMLYTG/yhTdboK05Umpjqqvx8Mdh1QFYNm4jRCzSfr/rZk9rtwtTI4A9T DCcvY8raCE+xWnkvOer1n8RGkiJpcue8/AC49IVq0E1IQbvrVRfgryB9dtB7sYZcl95P w1Kw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc; bh=PVZG7oWzDBtUMseNBUnzZhc0O3W35PkA0oo1BQ55IrI=; b=MIAF26NCs2TiKq5ekFQ+c9YvOp3Ef8JdfqpBPhv9pIKXZlvOBnPv0zHVDrHlZugXpO ZfXSh0McjY+UuuHZGHiB4wsXBRdOLR2rsOXPwJa38u0hEHZ+fHWstYKj75lBma2oPm59 fJV7lpcd3ztIToFU1EUixuFg14r69JZYyTj0bsOROMmFnAevAhaFMXd8JL7Btii9Ayie GpNq29Jq16LC2H9APPzjp4apGcbwcn/116AY0pC5OlsAYzFj0UgkhkSeVAbnG8SdvS+d YuvptpMKJX4DuYe7m1sLjAxkRfzkUcWkC3RV5vh1DSWobaHMttUuGeH1QGM0+bJvGQ2r f5Lg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACgBeo2RbKtNiLSuPG01Fbmxt839PsES/HinOIMN67+5wm3oNAdH54Ao bX3KddBwdVgbLmDJ08ODJHeUC6NyDKcCcaL10hRqynPm X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA6agR6Ny4DJ2tgcCgJXEKdBZq9PiSZX2+oXJxNbmD8WicznAaZE2CbgHlzMOKfPYhMoLb2UyAiBi0VD84Y1CUZEpJc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:9b83:b0:730:b3ae:343 with SMTP id dd3-20020a1709069b8300b00730b3ae0343mr17260946ejc.670.1661860521045; Tue, 30 Aug 2022 04:55:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Reply-To: markmcclure@me.com Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 07:55:10 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Resurrecting my project To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000005fe3d05e7740eca" --00000000000005fe3d05e7740eca Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable @Charlie: I think all 4 injectors being the same makes sense. @Steve: Your Glasair looks great! How does she fly? "Simplicity is the answer - don=E2=80=99t want to reinvent the wheel=E2=80= =9D With that in mind - I may program up my EC3 and EM3 as I own them already and MegaSquirt is expensive and Speeduino seemingly is out of stock and has been for a while. I have heard from Ross as well that SDS will not support Rotary, but I am not entirely sure I understand why as it is intended to be fully user programmable why would I not be able to program it to work on a rotary just like I would be able to program the MS Pro or Speeduino? Benefit being SDS is supported and designed for aviation. What am I missing? To understand how a rotary engine works with MegaSquirt=C2=AE EFI Controlle= r, we need to figure out how MegaSquirt=C2=AE will 'see' the rotary in terms of injection cycles. In 720=C2=B0 of crank rotation, a four-stroke cycle piston engine (two revolutions =3D 4 strokes) ingests its rated displacement (ignoring volumetric efficiency issues and the like) of air. In the same 720=C2=B0, t= he rotary swallows *twice* its rated displacement (somewhat like a 2 stroke cycle engine). To understand this, recall that a Wankel rotary engine has three faces on each rotor, evenly spaced at 120=C2=B0 apart. The rotors rotate at 1/3 the eccentric shaft speed, so we see an ignition event every 120=C2=B0=C3=83=E2= =80=943 =3D 360 degrees, and all three faces require 3=C3=83=E2=80=94360=C2=B0 =3D 1080=C2= =B0 of eccentric shaft rotation. (*Note that all of these factors are determined by the geometry of the case, housing, and gears, and are the same for all Wankel rotary engines.*) In the 13B, there are two rotors, however, and they are phased 180=C3=82=C2= =B0 apart, giving an ignition event every 180=C3=82=C2=B0, alternating between the rot= ors. Crank Degrees *Piston Engine* Cylinder Firing *Wankel* Rotor Firing 0=C2=B0 1 1 *(face 1)* 180=C2=B0 3 2 *(face 1)* 360=C2=B0 4 1 *(face 2)* 540=C2=B0 2 2 *(face 2)* 720=C2=B0 1 *- back where we started* 1 *(face 3)* 900=C2=B0 3 2 *(face 3)* 1080=C2=B0 4 1 *(face 1) - back where we started* So to MegaSquirt=C2=AE EFI Controller, the Mazda 13B rotary looks just like= a 4 cylinder engine, except for having a 2nd set of plugs delayed by a few degrees. Each rotor has 3 chambers and executes an Otto cycle (intake-compression-power-exhaust) in 1080=C2=B0 of eccentric shaft rotatio= n. Therefore, setting up a rotary as a 4 stroke cycle, 4-cylinder (since it gives 4 tach pulses per 720=C2=B0), and 2600cc (displacement x 2), works ou= t fine. The number of squirts per cycle may need some experimentation for your specific installation, as with any MegaSquirt=C2=AE installation. On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 2:19 PM Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com wrote: > Mark: I am going for the Mercury 2 by Spittronics in South Africa.They > support the software for the rotary wankel engine. > > https://spitronics.com/ > > Think that they have sorted out the problems over the years. > Simplicity is the answer - don=E2=80=99t want to =E2=80=9Creinvent the wh= eel=E2=80=9D lot of guys > in racing uses the software in the wankel engins. > > Regards > Sent from my iPhone > Le Roux Breytenbach > > On 29 Aug 2022, at 18:31, bruce buksyk bbuksyk@outlook.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > > Great questions=E2=80=A6 I too would like to start back up. In the pre= vious > thread, there was mention of SDS EFI. I=E2=80=99ve been in touch with Ros= s at SDS > and they no longer produce systems for Wankels due to low numbers. FYI.= . > > > > Sent from Mail for > Windows > > > > *From: *Mark McClure mark.mcclure.m3@gmail.com > > *Sent: *Monday, August 29, 2022 10:45 AM > *To: *Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject: *[FlyRotary] Resurrecting my project > > > > So after a few years hiatus of working on the project, I am back at it. > > Glasair Super 2 with 4 port RENESIS. > > > > Feels good, except I cannot remember all of my plans, nor some of the > decisions I made. 2 sets of bell mouths for the intake, obviously one was > first=E2=80=A6 and one was =E2=80=9Cdecided on=E2=80=9D > > > > I purchased my EC-3 back in 2012. I believe at the time I asked Tracy for > RENESIS engine with stock injectors and LS1 coils. Searching through the > archives, it seems Finn Lassen found that the EC3 is not programmed > correctly to represent that? Or maybe I misread it. > > > > All my electronic pieces are still unopened and no work has really been > started on installing any of it. I am working on getting all the ancillar= y > systems such as intake, exhaust, oil and cooling setup. > > > > So a few questions for the group: > > 1) ditch the EC3 and EM3 altogether (and provide it to someone else as a > backup) Start acquiring/learning SpeedUino or some other system? > > 2) continue with what I have (is there some way to validate or change the > programming of the EC3?) > > 3) unrelated: Anyone made the swap to yellow and blue injectors for > RENESIS and are happy with their decision? Or stick with red and blue? > > > > Appreciate any insights from others' experiences as I get back at this. > > > > Warm regards, > > Mark McClure > > > > 60% Glasair Super 2TD > > 35% 13b > > > > --00000000000005fe3d05e7740eca Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
@Charlie: I think all 4 injectors being the same make= s sense.
@Steve: Your Glasair looks great! How does she fly?

"Simplicity is the answer - don=E2=80=99t want to reinven= t the wheel=E2=80=9D
With that in mind - I may program up my EC3 and EM= 3 as I own them already and MegaSquirt is expensive and Speeduino seemingly= is out of stock and has been for a while.

I have = heard from Ross as well that SDS will not support Rotary, but I am not enti= rely=C2=A0sure I understand why as it is intended to be fully user programm= able why would I not be able to program it to work on a rotary just like I = would be able to program the MS Pro or Speeduino?=C2=A0 Benefit=C2=A0being = SDS is supported and designed for aviation.


What=C2=A0am I missing?=C2=A0=C2=A0

To unders= tand how a rotary engine works with MegaSquirt=C2=AE=C2=A0EFI Co= ntroller, we need to figure out how MegaSquirt=C2=AE=C2=A0will &= #39;see' the rotary in terms of injection cycles.

In 720=C2=B0 of crank = rotation, a four-stroke cycle piston engine (two revolutions =3D 4 strokes)= ingests its rated displacement (ignoring volumetric efficiency issues and = the like) of air. In the same 720=C2=B0, the rotary swallows=C2=A0twice<= /b>=C2=A0its rated displacement (somewhat like a 2 stroke cycle engine).

To = understand this, recall that a Wankel rotary engine has three faces on each= rotor, evenly spaced at 120=C2=B0 apart. The rotors rotate at=C2=A01<= /sup>/3=C2=A0the eccentric shaft speed, so we see an ignition ev= ent every 120=C2=B0=C3=83=E2=80=943 =3D 360 degrees, and all three faces re= quire 3=C3=83=E2=80=94360=C2=B0 =3D 1080=C2=B0 of eccentric shaft rotation.=

= (Note that all of these factors are determined by the geometry of the ca= se, housing, and gears, and are the same for all Wankel rotary engines.= )

In the 13B, there are two rotors, however, and they are phased 180=C3=82= =C2=B0 apart, giving an ignition event every 180=C3=82=C2=B0, alternating b= etween the rotors.

=
Crank DegreesPiston Engine
C= ylinder Firing		Wankel
Rotor Firing
0=C2=B011=C2=A0= (face 1)
18= 0=C2=B032=C2=A0(face 1)
360=C2=B041=C2= =A0(face 2)
540=C2=B022=C2=A0(face 2)
720=C2=B01= =C2=A0- back where we started1=C2=A0<= i>(face 3)
= 900=C2=B032=C2=A0(face 3)
1080=C2=B041= =C2=A0(face 1) - back where we started

<= span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Verdana,Arial;font-size:11px">So= to MegaSquirt=C2=AE=C2=A0EFI Controller, the Mazda 13B rotary looks just like a= 4 cylinder engine, except for having a 2nd set of plugs delayed by a few d= egrees. Each rotor has 3 chambers and executes an Otto cycle (intake-compre= ssion-power-exhaust) in 1080=C2=B0 of eccentric shaft rotation.

Therefore, setting up a rot= ary as a 4 stroke cycle, 4-cylinder (since it gives 4 tach pulses per 720= =C2=B0), and 2600cc (displacement x 2), works out fine. The number of squir= ts per cycle may need some experimentation for your specific installation, = as with any MegaSquirt=C2=AE=C2=A0installation.

=

= On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 2:19 PM Le Roux Breytenbach breytenbachleroux@gmail.com &= lt;flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Mark: I am going for the Mercury 2 by= Spittronics in South Africa.They support the software for the rotary wanke= l engine.

https://spitronics.com/

Think that they have sorted out= the problems over the years.
Simplicity is the answer - don=E2= =80=99t want to =E2=80=9Creinvent the wheel=E2=80=9D lot of guys in racing = uses the software in the wankel engins.

Regards
Sent from my iPhone
Le Roux Breytenbach=C2=A0

On 29 Aug 2022, at 18:31= , bruce buksyk bbu= ksyk@outlook.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

Great questions=E2=80=A6=C2=A0 I too would like to s= tart back up.=C2=A0=C2=A0 In the previous thread, there was mention of SDS = EFI. I=E2=80=99ve been in touch with Ross at SDS and they no longer produce= systems for Wankels due to low numbers. =C2=A0=C2=A0FYI..

=C2=A0

Sent from Mail for Windows

=C2=A0

From: Mark McClure ma= rk.mcclure.m3@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2022 10:45 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Resurrecting my project

=C2=A0

So after a few years hiatus of working on the project, I am back at= it.

Glasair Super 2 with 4 port RENESIS.

=C2=A0

Feels good, except I cannot remember all of my plans, nor some of t= he decisions I made. 2 sets of bell mouths for the intake, obviously one wa= s first=E2=80=A6 and one was =E2=80=9Cdecided on=E2=80=9D<= /u>

=C2=A0

I purchased my EC-3 back in 2012. I believe at the time I asked Tra= cy for RENESIS engine with stock injectors and LS1 coils. Searching through= the archives, it seems Finn Lassen found that the EC3 is not programmed correctly to represent that? Or maybe= I misread it.

=C2=A0

All my electronic pieces are still unopened and no work has really = been started on installing any of it. I am working on getting all the ancil= lary systems such as intake, exhaust, oil and cooling setup.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

So a few questions for the group:

1) ditch the EC3 and EM3 altogether (and provide it to someone else= as a backup) Start acquiring/learning=C2=A0SpeedUino or some other system?=

2) continue with what I have (is there some way to validate or chan= ge the programming of the EC3?)

3) unrelated: Anyone made the swap to yellow and blue injectors for= RENESIS and are happy with their decision? Or stick with red and blue?<= u>

=C2=A0

Appreciate any insights from others' experiences as I get back = at this.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Warm regards,

Mark McClure

=C2=A0

60%=C2=A0Glasair Super 2TD

35% 13b

=C2=A0

--00000000000005fe3d05e7740eca--