Return-Path: Received: from [24.25.9.102] (HELO ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 4.1.8) with ESMTP id 3111520 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:23:07 -0500 Received: from edward (clt78-020.carolina.rr.com [24.93.78.20]) by ms-smtp-03-eri0.southeast.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id i2LHN3s2014974 for ; Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:23:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000f01c40f69$2edd6320$2402a8c0@edward> From: "Ed Anderson" To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: Subject: Data? Was : Renesis & RD-1C drive testing Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:23:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C40F3F.45BD80E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C40F3F.45BD80E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tracy, Experimentation can sure get exciting quickly, that's for sure. So = here we have the first successful cross-runway take off at Shady Bend, = congratulations! I am interested in your static rpm with the 13B engine, big prop and = 2.85 drive, so I can calculate an approximation of your HP on take off - = might be interesting to see how it stacks up against the old set up. = Later on of course interested in your fuel burn at same indicated = airspeeds and altitudes for a comparison with your old set up. Best Regards Ed =20 Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tracy Crook=20 To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 12:02 PM Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Renesis & RD-1C drive testing Hi Greg, Ed Anderson gave you numbers that closely parallel what I = have seen. I tend to cruise at higher altitudes which partly accounts = for my slightly lower fuel burn. I'm just now starting on my Renesis evaluation. First I wanted to = compare it to the earlier rotary (89 vintage) so I installed the RD-1C = 2.85 : 1 drive and larger prop (intended for the Renesis). Things are = different enough that it will take at least 20 hours to evaluate. I'll = be posting detailed reports on the website. =20 On the second flight test of this configuration I had planned to do a = maximum performance takeoff to see how it compared. I was fully aware = that the P-factor would be opposite (prop turns right instead of left) = but I was unprepared for the magnitude of it. With full right rudder = the plane was still veering left. Things happened too quickly for me to be exactly sure of what happened = next but I think when the tail wheel lifted off, the plane turned = sharply to the left and I was certain that I was going to crash into the = fence that borders the runway. No one was more surprised than I when = the RV-4 lifted off and cleared the fence (barely!). =20 There were lots more interesting differences (most of them good) but = it will take several pages and more time than I have right now to = explain them. =20 My first recommendation when using the -C drive and a big prop is Feed = in power gradually on takeoff until rudder is fully effective. A bit of = right offset in the engine mount might also be in order (mine has none). Tracy ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fuess Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:22 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel Consumption Questions Hi Fellow Rotor heads, I am getting very close to starting construction of an RV-7 (much = closer than last year when I said this! - should start in 8~10 weeks) and = very interested in the potential for the Renesis engine in this = application (can't wait for Tracy to get his installed so we can read the = performance reports). I do have one question that is difficult for me to get my = arms around. What kind of fuel burn are you guys experiencing that are = flying your 13Bs? Turbocharged 13Bs? -at various power settings and = altitudes? Is there a data reference site anywhere that could provide this = information? Ed Anderson's Rotary Power vs. 2-3-2 Cooling BTU calculation = spreadsheet indicated 12.4 to 14.9 gph at 5k to 6k rpm (all for 1,500' alt). = This seems not to compare well to the lyconosaurus published consumption rates = for a 180 hp engine, though I have read elsewhere on the internet that the = rotary consumption should be similar. Am I misreading or misusing Ed's spreadsheet, or should I get used to the higher consumption rate? = Are the Lycoming consumption rates bogus? I am something of a lurker here, but as I get closer to the "date", = I am getting more and more detail conscientious. Appreciate any and all thoughts. Best Regards, Greg Fuess >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C40F3F.45BD80E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tracy,
 
    Experimentation can sure get = exciting=20 quickly, that's for sure.  So here we have the first successful=20 cross-runway take off at Shady Bend, congratulations!
 
 I am interested in your static rpm with = the 13B=20 engine, big prop and 2.85 drive, so I can calculate an approximation of = your HP=20 on take off - might be interesting to see how it stacks up against the = old set=20 up.  Later on of course interested in your fuel burn at same = indicated=20 airspeeds and altitudes for a comparison with your old set=20 up.
 
Best Regards
 
Ed
  
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tracy = Crook
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 = 12:02=20 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: = Renesis &=20 RD-1C drive testing

Hi Greg, Ed Anderson gave you numbers that closely parallel what = I have=20 seen.  I tend to cruise at higher altitudes which partly accounts = for my=20 slightly lower fuel burn.
 
I'm just now starting on my Renesis evaluation.  First I = wanted to=20 compare it to the earlier rotary (89 vintage) so I installed the = RD-1C =20 2.85 : 1 drive and larger prop (intended for the Renesis).  = Things are=20 different enough that it will take at least 20 hours to = evaluate.  I'll=20 be posting detailed reports on the website. 
 
On the second flight test of this configuration I had planned to = do a=20 maximum performance takeoff to see how it compared.  I was fully = aware=20 that the P-factor would be opposite (prop turns right instead of left) = but I=20 was unprepared for the magnitude of it.  With full right rudder = the plane=20 was still veering left.
 
Things happened too quickly for me to be exactly sure of what = happened=20 next but I think when the tail wheel lifted off, the plane turned = sharply to=20 the left and I was certain that I was going to crash into the fence = that=20 borders the runway.  No one was more surprised than I = when the=20 RV-4 lifted off and cleared the fence (barely!). 
 
There were lots more interesting differences (most of them=20 good) but it will take several pages and more time than I have = right now=20 to explain them. 
 
My first recommendation when using the -C drive and a big prop is = Feed in=20 power gradually on takeoff until rudder is fully = effective.  A bit=20 of right offset in the engine mount might also be in order (mine has=20 none).
 
Tracy
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Greg Fuess
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 = 1:22=20 AM
To: Rotary motors in = aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Fuel = Consumption=20 Questions
 
Hi Fellow Rotor heads,

I am getting very = close to=20 starting construction of an RV-7 (much closer
than last year when = I said=20 this! - should start in 8~10 weeks) and very
interested in the = potential=20 for the Renesis engine in this application
(can't wait for Tracy = to get=20 his installed so we can read the performance
reports).  I do = have=20 one question that is difficult for me to get my = arms
around.  What=20 kind of fuel burn are you guys experiencing that are flying
your=20 13Bs?  Turbocharged 13Bs? -at various power settings and=20 altitudes?  Is
there a data reference site anywhere that = could=20 provide this information?

Ed Anderson's Rotary Power vs. = 2-3-2=20 Cooling BTU calculation spreadsheet
indicated 12.4 to 14.9 gph at = 5k to=20 6k rpm (all for 1,500' alt).  This seems
not to compare well = to the=20 lyconosaurus published consumption rates for a
180 hp engine, = though I=20 have read elsewhere on the internet that the rotary
consumption = should be=20 similar.  Am I misreading or misusing Ed's
spreadsheet, or = should I=20 get used to the higher consumption rate?  Are the
Lycoming=20 consumption rates bogus?

I am something of a lurker here, but = as I=20 get closer to the "date", I am
getting more and more detail=20 conscientious.  Appreciate any and all
thoughts.

Best = Regards,

Greg Fuess



>>  = Homepage: =20 http://www.flyrotary.com/
>>  Archive:  =20 = http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
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