X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ivOgnfGd17TJ6pn/+WcPTQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=DxjPifHaizMA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=NlHvDLlutiwAA6QpAj8A:9 a=PUeyngFz-ylAP8Ye:21 a=pC30_eLEmfZqvpst:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=1ekTt2Y2hBbpNFZEW84A:9 a=naV2H3pMP4pxgW8H:21 a=CEMmZjVKuaL7SqhQ:21 a=A1grCZ6HaKC-XT2T:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 From: "James Whitehurst flyboyusvi@gmail.com" Received: from mail-wr1-f49.google.com ([209.85.221.49] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 619753 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 16:19:10 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.221.49; envelope-from=flyboyusvi@gmail.com Received: by mail-wr1-f49.google.com with SMTP id p20so4688516wrf.0 for ; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 13:19:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=X+eHjXoe+K+5Xu9nThQqPcJNz/dc5BcuqlLnE/a3qfs=; b=i8XaSyUTWLsnHbB1/Dh1KXAXJgWk+HqhSyTmiZwWxNG7TDpLa8cCFujq9fZFE14kC4 UlQO+FHc9ejU3+8i9hPndJKzn+GmsEu+fQKzdP+Qab9704BZd4kame0vlHcqkvPYr57q S4cVCdhrqddvJmDzXEcSDLtxEzbEYO6e7hkPFZWIalzazhrH6eL5A3LIatFnQ2QK9GVp ltF7Tk4hpHMj1MrSRQM8RIqL3egGnP5dIa6bzA5yzOVrm9FOGuyeV9fnOT3Hi7nz5mJP YUV+HL5TY88V2BSketO0Lt3FfgcCyhp7XmGWdNMqzaib4SOImH6Pyov7kav6fc+ZwloL H7WQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=X+eHjXoe+K+5Xu9nThQqPcJNz/dc5BcuqlLnE/a3qfs=; b=juHpI9SrZyjt3tAq3GFq2lVtq2GBjkw1jiofpdUMw0G6X88/Te1pkSVLrA2Ox17wu9 KgyrzUARrCOSFu2erame72Voy7jHyoBSI1w3YmeD8XLYVNbC+i7shOeU+TOR9WjzW5En aBNSYv5Ln5kRX4ZBRAp6sBmDryS+Udgj5y29ecS8FOXRLGV+CKY334DAMo4LGc59/Gmm UQtlEC2eixtt42VLbJA4kYVXOtlyokejuz3EIsg/+nCg0VLvoN/UADGiDB1OlWAQftYn WkxXceRdW03aUxgZ3lIQ3Xsjn2ZINNozlZGyI8lqM+Vjr0bvQh9CI1H+9n+UeGa0HdRG gl8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530pwYN9ix8rfGYoT4fDesv7t7xJNhk1nz9jyGBZqJPCyPmNF7RA AxMucLPNnepCmRF+xrXGUAqBkQI/qRdDh2Q/O5U/asUz X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwcwgTRKzszDXmvKEi9dUmsmgFBqGLMbWI+7oKz6RKI92uMNslOWXq+0Iz2XGxGVU2GKRSXRfNmd+JIG1YvB1I= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f606:: with SMTP id t6mr1432120wrp.182.1596917931923; Sat, 08 Aug 2020 13:18:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2020 16:18:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000115bb605ac636e89" --000000000000115bb605ac636e89 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dave L, thanks for the spreadsheet. I will try to learn enough to use it in the near future... I tried to look up the discussions you referred to. I couldn't access the info? Any help or guidance would be appreciated. Thanks james Whitehurst. On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 19:09 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: > Todd, > > Have finally located a turbo shop that can upgrade my > turbo. Have sent it to them for inspection / upgrade. Saving freight fr= om > the US if successful. Called precision turbos. Seem to be a US firm wit= h > a local branch. Hopefully I can get what I am after. > > > > Neil > > > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Friday, August 7, 2020 3:39 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft > > > > Hi Todd, I dont think you will miss the AMU. It is easy enough to change > out the actuator. I have 2 turbos from BNR. In one I removed the > wastegate flapper all together and just left the hole wide open. That > gives me about 42" MAP at sea level and protects me from my lead fist. I= ts > perfect for my everyday flying. The other one uses the stock actuator an= d > will give me 45" at 10k density altitude. I call it my race turbo. > Nothing like raging around at Vne. Nothing like the gas bill either. > > > > It will be easy enough to use your TurboSmart. Bummer they dont do the > Stage 4 anymore. Seemed like a lot of work for them to do for 0.1amu. > Hopefull they still port the wastegate a little. > > > > We definitely have to get together for a hockey game sometime. > > > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 9:23 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > I ended up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no longer machine > the exhaust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core charge to sav= e > on shipping down there. I'd rather give it to him than FedEx. So this mea= ns > I get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'll see what I can do > about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. Pretty soon I'll have enou= gh > spare parts to build another airplane. > > As they say "ignorance is bliss", and I was content to think I was not > asking much of my turbo and so I didn't have to worry about it, but again > this list has proven its value as random info not even directed at me has > made me aware that at any given time my poor little turbo could give up t= he > ghost and leave me looking for a place to put down where there are none. > > I asked him to put a 7psi spring in the actuator, as the TurboSmart > controller will allow me to achieve more at the touch of a button. But I > may just replace it with my own actuator anyways. I'll decide when I > receive it. > > Now I'm going to rethink my intercooler installation. I had recently > removed it as I didn't feel it was a very effective installation due to > space constraints and didn't think it was really doing much for me. I now > think it was doing more than I thought, but I now have an opportunity wit= h > some space freed up to do a better install. > > Last year I bought a little bitty tiny lithium battery to replace the > big old lead acid battery. As it has some smarts on it, the first thing i= t > told me was that it didn't like being over on the hot side of the engine, > behind the turbo. So since it is so small and light, it was an easy thing > to move over to the other side of the engine, right beside my primary > alternator. So I removed the Vans battery mount and now have quite a bit = of > free space in which to mount the intercooler, however it will probably > require some modification. This is all yet to be determined.... > > > Todd Bartrim > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 1:17 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Dave; > > Another question for you about your wastegate. Are you using the > wastegate that he provided? And what pressure is the spring? > > I told him I would rather use my own wastegate, but he didn't seem to > know what I was talking about when I told him it was a piston type rather > than a diaphragm and kept insisting that I'd want to use his with a 14psi > spring. > > I also want the lowest possible spring pressure as I have a TurboSmart > electronic boost controller which can give higher pre-programed pressures > at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pressure signal to the > actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than what the spring > pressure is. > > One of my considerations for lower max boost pressure is that my engine > was not originally turbocharged so I have the high compression 9.4:1 roto= rs. > > Fot that reason I've always been conservative and tried to limit my > boost to 6psi, which is my current spring pressure. > > When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16 psi without > detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subject the engin= e > to regularly. > > > > Thanks, Todd > > > > > > > > On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Dave; > > I talked with BNR today and I'm not sure he really got what I was > looking for as he started by saying that a "stage 3" is what I should hav= e > then said probably a "stage 1" would be good for me. > > But other than that I did like what he has to offer. However I'm > thinking that even though I don't feel that I have the demands that you d= o, > if I'm going to go this far, I'm going all the way and might as well go f= or > the "stage 4". > > The "stage 4" involves machining the exhaust housing to make room for = a > larger turbine wheel while the others don't. So I wonder if I could sourc= e > those other items and do this myself. But as I don't even know enough abo= ut > my starting point it's not very realistic to find the finish line without= a > significant investment in time. So for the low price of $1amu, I can have > more than what I need. I'm also convinced that paying the $0.1amu core > charge is good value when you have to deal with international shipping. > > So I guess I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me over > the edge and call him back with my visa#. > > If he had an "add to cart" button on his website I think we'd be past > this point after a few beers watching playoff hockey. > > > > Todd > > (The only thing stranger than watching hockey in August, is that > there is less fans than my beer league games) > > > > > > > > On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com, < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Todd, > > Thanks for that as was exactly what I was thinking. Have > tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don=E2=80=99t want the = job. > Freight listed to the US and back can be $300 each way. Makes the $100 > cheap. Will contact them, and see what eventuates as way down the path o= f > fitting the stock turbo, really do not want to start again. Done that to= o > many times before. > > Thanks, Neil. > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:56 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft > > > > Hi Neil; > > I talked to BNR today on the phone about my needs and wants. He said it > was about a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo, so I said maybe later th= is > fall. So he suggested that for a $100 dollar core charge, he could just g= et > one there and modify it for me and I can keep this one. That's kinda a > no-brainer, because it would cost me that much to ship mine down to him. > Then I'm only paying shipping one way. > > So for you that would make even more sense. > > Todd Bartrim > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Dave and all, > > Finally great advice that I cannot get > anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the phone line go= es dead. The oil > cut off is great as well for I have personal experience with a turbo > failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you would not believe the amount of oil that= can fit > into an exhaust! That took more time to clean than replacing the turbo-- > all 5 gallons of it. > > Will see what I can source here in OZ as to a turbo , as the freight > both ways to the US is murderous. Happy with the mod cost which will be > $1300 Oz dollars. Still a cheap turbo. Freight I am guessing will be > another $300 at least. > > > > Neil. > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 PM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft > > > > Hi Dave; > > What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? > > > > Todd Bartrim > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. > > > > Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its > proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be > giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perhaps > you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you are not goi= ng > to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan to > achieve it. > > > > The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13b it > ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short bursts. > I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock turbo to see wh= at > I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo lasted for > about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the impeller was runnin= g > over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours. It probably onl= y > lasted that long because most of the time I was not running full power. > The turbo imploded on my first long cross country. I was almost home and > decided to let it loose a little. I was running about 30" MAP at 17.5k > altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing that. > > > > My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a shut-of= f > valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in my > installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into the > exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you ca= n > get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as you > need. > > > > Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that are > realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically want to > fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and paste > various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the > internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. Try > to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying away > from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. You wi= ll > find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readily > available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an > aircraft. > > > > Best, > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Group, > > I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I > settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so as = to > not get into > > any overspeed problems..........FWIW > > > > http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 > > > > Kelly troyer > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Dave, > > Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the > upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock > Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation? > > Neil. > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft > > > > James, > > I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They also have > options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ Cost is $950 for the > level 4 upgrade. Makes a nice tight fit. I had a big discussion about > Turbo maps that you can find in the archives. I settled on a TO4-H or > TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea level. > > > > Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate variou= s > parameters in selecting a turbo. > > > > Dave Leonard > > > > On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > James, > > 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnard. Thi= nk they > have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the world trying t= o > get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk = to > drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. Bought 2 hitachi turb= os > for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bearings. > > There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight > only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much t= o > go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an intercooler that > may fit. > > Best, Neil. > > > > > > *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Sent:* Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft > > > > Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and > size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience i= s > appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from > aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage for > turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst > > > > > --000000000000115bb605ac636e89 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dave L, thanks for the spreadsheet. I will try to learn e= nough to use it in the near future... I tried to look up the discussions yo= u referred to. I couldn't=C2=A0 access the info? Any help or guidance w= ould be appreciated. Thanks james Whitehurst.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 19:09 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote= :

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Have finally located a turbo = shop that can upgrade my turbo.=C2=A0 Have sent it to them for inspection /= upgrade.=C2=A0 Saving freight from the US if successful.=C2=A0 Called prec= ision turbos.=C2=A0 Seem to be a US firm with a local branch.=C2=A0 Hopeful= ly I can get what I am after.

=C2=A0

Neil

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net>
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 3:39 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= >
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraf= t

=C2=A0

Hi Todd,=C2=A0 I dont think you will miss the= AMU. It is easy enough to change out the actuator.=C2=A0 I have 2 turbos f= rom BNR.=C2=A0 In one I removed the wastegate flapper all together and just= left the hole wide open.=C2=A0 That gives me about 42" MAP at sea lev= el and protects me from my lead fist.=C2=A0 Its perfect for my everyday fly= ing.=C2=A0 The other one uses the stock actuator and will give me 45" = at 10k density altitude.=C2=A0 I call it my race turbo. =C2=A0 Nothing like= raging around at Vne.=C2=A0 Nothing like the gas bill either.=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

=

It will be easy enough to use your TurboSmart.= =C2=A0 Bummer they dont do the Stage 4 anymore.=C2=A0 Seemed like a lot of = work for them to do for 0.1amu.=C2=A0 Hopefull they still port the wastegat= e a little.

=C2= =A0

We definitely have to get t= ogether for a hockey game sometime.

=C2=A0

Dave = Leonard

=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 9:23 PM To= dd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

I ended up ordering the stage 3 tu= rbo from BNR as they no longer machine the exhaust housing to make a stage = 4. I paid the $100 core charge to save on shipping down there. I'd rath= er give it to him than FedEx. So this means I get to keep my old turbo so m= aybe in the future I'll see what=C2=A0I can do about sourcing the parts= to do my own upgrade. Pretty soon I'll have enough spare parts to buil= d another airplane.

=C2=A0

Hi Dave;

= =C2=A0 Another question for you about your wastegate. Are you using the was= tegate that he provided? And what pressure is the spring?

=

=C2=A0 I told him I would rather use my o= wn wastegate, but he didn't seem to know what I was talking about when = I told him it was a piston type rather than a diaphragm and kept insisting = that I'd want to use his with a 14psi spring.

I also want the lowest possible spring pressure a= s I have a TurboSmart electronic boost controller which can give higher pre= -programed pressures at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pressur= e signal to the actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than wha= t the spring pressure is.

=C2=A0 One of my considerations for lower max boost pressure is that my e= ngine was not originally turbocharged so I have the high compression 9.4:1 = rotors.

=C2=A0 Fot that = reason I've always been conservative and tried to limit my boost to 6ps= i, which is my current spring pressure.

=C2=A0 When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw abo= ut 16 psi without detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to s= ubject the engine to regularly.

=C2=A0

Thanks, T= odd

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Dave;

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I talk= ed with BNR today and I'm not sure he really got what I was looking for= as he started by saying that a "stage 3" is what I should have t= hen said probably a "stage 1" would be good for me.=

=C2=A0 But other than that I did like= what he has to offer. However I'm thinking that even though I don'= t feel that I have the demands that you do, if I'm going to go this far= , I'm going all the way and might as well go for the "stage 4"= ;.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The &quo= t;stage 4" involves machining the exhaust housing to make room for a l= arger turbine wheel while the others don't. So I wonder if I could sour= ce those other items and do this myself. But as I don't even know enoug= h about my starting point it's not very realistic to find the finish li= ne without a significant investment in time. So for the low price of $1amu,= I can have more than what I need. I'm also convinced that paying the $= 0.1amu core charge is good value when you have to deal with international s= hipping.=C2=A0

So I gues= s I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me over the edge an= d call him back with my visa#.

=C2=A0 If he had an "add to cart" button on his website I = think we'd be past this point after a few beers watching playoff hockey= .

=C2=A0

=C2=A0Todd

=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(The only thing stranger than wa= tching hockey in August, is that there is less fans than my beer league gam= es)

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0

On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com, <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks for that as was exactly what I was= thinking.=C2=A0 Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don= =E2=80=99t want the job.=C2=A0 Freight listed to the US and back can be $30= 0 each way.=C2=A0 Makes the $100 cheap.=C2=A0 Will contact them, and see wh= at eventuates as way down the path of fitting the stock turbo, really do no= t want to start again.=C2=A0 Done that too many times before.=

Thanks,=C2=A0 Neil.<= /span>

=C2=A0<= /span>

=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 5,= 2020 9:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 1= 3b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Hi Neil;

=

=C2=A0 I talked to BNR today on the phone about my n= eeds and wants. He said it was about a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo,= so I said maybe later this fall. So he suggested that for a $100 dollar co= re charge, he could just get one there and modify it for me and I can keep = this one. That's kinda a no-brainer, because it would cost me that much= to ship mine down to him. Then I'm only paying shipping one way.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0So for you that = would make even more sense.=C2=A0

<= div>

Todd Bartrim

<= /div>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue= , Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net> wrote:

Dave and all,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Finally great advice that I cannot get anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CA= ircraft=E2=80=9D and the phone line goes dead.=C2=A0 The oil cut off is gre= at as well for I have personal experience with =C2=A0a turbo failure in a t= ruck =E2=80=93 you would not believe the amount of oil that can fit into an= exhaust!=C2=A0 That took more time to clean than replacing the turbo-- all= 5 gallons of it.=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0Will see what I can source here in OZ =C2=A0a= s to a turbo , as the freight both ways to the US=C2=A0 is murderous.=C2=A0= Happy with the mod cost which will be $1300 Oz dollars.=C2=A0 Still a chea= p turbo.=C2=A0 Freight I am guessing will be another $300 at least.<= u>

=C2=A0<= u>

Neil.

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 P= M
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in = aircraft

=C2=A0=

Hi Dave;

=C2=A0 What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil?

=C2=A0

Todd Bartrim

<= /div>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com= <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Kelly, you are right.=C2=A0 I= even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above.

=C2=A0

M= ark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its prope= r operating environment for the conditions you are going to be giving.=C2= =A0 You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perh= aps you dont=C2=A0have a specific=C2=A0target in mind.=C2=A0 Thats fine, bu= t you are not going to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific tar= get and a plan to achieve it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine.=C2=A0 It and the 2nd gen 13= b it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short burs= ts.=C2=A0 I did what you are thinking about doing.=C2=A0 I ran the stock tu= rbo to see what I would get.=C2=A0 I was making a little over 200hp and the= turbo lasted for about 70 flight hours.=C2=A0 Looking=C2=A0at its turbo ma= p, the impeller was running over 100k RPM.=C2=A0 It's very surprising i= t lasted 70 hours.=C2=A0 It probably only lasted that long because most of = the time I was not running full power.=C2=A0 The turbo imploded on my first= long cross country.=C2=A0 I was almost home and decided to let it loose a = little.=C2=A0 I was running=C2=A0about 30" MAP at 17.5k altitude.=C2= =A0 It lasted about 30 min doing that.

=C2=A0

My= advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a shut-off va= lve on the oil feed line to the turbo.=C2=A0 I now have one in my installat= ion.=C2=A0 When the turbo=C2=A0goes it will be hemorrhaging=C2=A0oil into t= he exhaust.=C2=A0 Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before = you can get very far.=C2=A0 With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as = long as you need.

=C2=A0=

Play around with that s= preadsheet I sent you.=C2=A0 Make up numbers that are realistic for how muc= h boost at what altitude you realistically=C2=A0want to fly, then find a tu= rbo to fit those parameters.=C2=A0 You can cut and paste various turbo maps= onto the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 They are available on the internet but most of= the relevant=C2=A0ones are there on the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 Try to keep the= turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying away from the '= surge' line.=C2=A0 Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible.=C2=A0 You = will find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readil= y available.=C2=A0 You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in a= n aircraft.

=C2=A0

Best,

=

Dave Leonard

=C2=A0

= On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Group,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no running experience yet but when I pur= chased my turbo I settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 = a/r turbine housing so as to not get into=C2=A0

any overspeed problems..........FWIW<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kelly troyer

=C2=A0

On = Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net> wrote:

Dave,

=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Just how much = extra Hp do you think you got withy the upgraded Turbo?=C2=A0 I will be hap= py with 250 to 300 HP from the stock Hitachi.=C2=A0 Am I off with the fairy= s having this expectation?

<= span lang=3D"EN-AU">Neil.

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent:<= /b> Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

James,

I had my stock housing upgraded= to TO4 by BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 They also have options for the Renisis.=C2= =A0http://bnrsupercars.com/=C2=A0Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade.= =C2=A0 Makes a nice tight fit.=C2=A0 I had a big discussion about Turbo map= s that you can find in the archives.=C2=A0 I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 = to top out around 350hp at sea level.

=C2=A0

At= tached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate various pa= rameters in selecting a turbo.

=C2=A0

Dave Leona= rd

=C2=A0=

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348u= ng@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

James,

=C2=A0 2 flying that I know of =E2= =80=93 Todd=C2=A0 Bartrim and Dave leonnard.=C2=A0 Think they have the stan= dard RX7 Hitachi turbo.=C2=A0 Just been around the world trying to get an a= ffordable=C2=A0 turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk to dr= ag racers etc.,=C2=A0 Quotes between $4500 and $6500.=C2=A0 Bought 2 hitach= i turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bearing= s.

=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight only.=C2= =A0 Would be a bargain.=C2=A0 Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much t= o go that I have not factored as usual.=C2=A0 Finally found an intercooler = that may fit.

Best,=C2=A0 Neil.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors = in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRot= ary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Does anyone ou= t there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and size) for a 13b in = an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience is appreciated! Auto r= acers have their needs but are different from aircraft... or so I've he= ard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage for turbos. Thanks, James = Whitehurst


=C2=A0

=
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