X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=nxOFE7kmtRX8oB1Ny8tBsA==:117 a=R_GH2UhQhlgA:10 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=e8BSqymJ620A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=U0eo3sx69qkA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=JGKOzOn7Rus9vdtvqU0A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=d46lUuF_AAAA:8 a=kRhi4pHE4znmK_vd:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=6lK6DICRFWFJG_1PXtoD:22 From: " argoldman@aol.com" Received: from sonic315-55.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.65.31] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 612426 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 18:11:23 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.137.65.31; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1596751866; bh=Rc7dNUbDjZSy2UBY9A4+Y4BWaYPlInX2plZglCWtV/w=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=Tu7M3Sss7gOIJ17u1sThq+elYIaIv3U0S0jJY1A6EAWxJ4CsjcLg6agzmy8Q1VCcny9copliRJ47nGzFUurFd0M0W/wCYce1gd/3BWbKcDSmySbZsyIQebtIUKRYyk8cszEIXwrOVOXVVkcJCioaZ+1XwQTcRMaLLsaU+JGF6GQ6u9iuWrUiFbFuQQLl7Uuxjoq3x2+7vo1ztN3Vk2r1Bc0ZZVg6iUrbvE1KUyNNIVvwth1HjZ5RidegyXP49FK/VKjdNtzJJiB5/F9zsD7NOL2596tV+zfYLbzrW35tM61vY103U9JX5YtCkD8xYUcoHsELGjNVwV5kgBMDy0V4GQ== X-YMail-OSG: EvRrGaoVM1kb6.vNUxMUVJPjz5KM1JUTDvp_NRg_oczYGsdzdvlbMu_KXnbxror 28pR4P2.gG3W2zdCScKNibgghSGoHJNZHcKfPr0avBaRtZ2GQh_Mrqwe5.pDx69wEnUi9xsOR8k8 PZygDOEKf1yd8Z.TejLzhu1HdAaS4WNObD2raS.NVE7GzjtT8Q6npH699RaRKbu5SMbOFjRZg0sG slBpCjdhwx0pwjNSxuEdThVVsohvZ_uCo47cu9Tn758WQ3oOjKV8q2KvZJbLozH4U1IACF5WCxCU U9VWHvKJCJNuqJn0HL5U4ax9N_PEIohcTLGuqSTJ.aJveq_4DHX1TMLtYAgcY9LXYgPSXclevWNK AMqhmuHalxAjBquaxUMOhGO85ucllZfhqtVS3lNrGaomnPCBrRmdyD84HM.ChC11QunpRk1ZCkQl Xe8mVWEG.7M2tYvJCA3rYSZcJpDKGd4XxNMq4tqpmsdhDECY65Vt2YS.KQjqZaPKE5D70SOMW.H_ m7DuQiDRmU9UgO1yekvRQe363ql3kqK3csY82YDAezQueaX1KwwdKU6FE8eiauLkjkTP0tATJDUZ JD9EJxJShVTZINlui6FkeRF9NqktyLvJ0WROJpUEh60wqDoROwxJ3oKpEwOCBmQtDq.srEZgRthS oahUrJ5UAKGE0WrUD09GMlRDWPqFBADto2Q.vJXhWg4S.TbNX342ZpTKWqnIU7FcdxN2R0kw9Aa4 _zRcH.1qkZp5kyrPoJeebd.Cxl0d4YbcTa_nwc5uZOa85MCEHRf3kjRLgJa2X1E7dG4f1IzI5ro6 449IWdSXKyxtXupuH54GTvymVYjJSBtanLkHe4F7rq16Ir2H3x12OID4T7N.mR59rCptVBiqufK5 7m3vxgC1fmt4sJHBmTgoBUOLyD2ln5Cftjqo7X79IZYqeT_RHe2l7gTSWzbikX2TvJ0h38yGVn9F v80PZV6uc2fZR5JfF2VCSBUDGeX7FyoxMl7t6LYvhI5Sm8z8BOcs4hV8I9vcy_b8WuCNdI8OVLWY Pw1PM8XT93jAQPf2BNcthIdydOuSNce8k5hLzQCZGdqBLUPznmvNUE6iYYmYUHUidvTOcRv9I3D1 yuRd0FRFtsbxdcx7m5cJFjdUOo3PzAqAD7zTDsILKTjRwO87DEKYJVlWcM0_UlVDSPK4CF4onNgj MojYRH2TqjkoOM5FWxfpzCIL4LnphnqdJWXFuBDpPKX0g8Zz9B.8qTzKz2CRbfqXDcukuggWglKD NUVcDNWS0sleJQ_R.Kl93z5pGPY3Daurg1kT_5dKNYh6UQg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 6 Aug 2020 22:11:06 +0000 Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 22:11:01 +0000 (UTC) Reply-To: argoldman@aol.com To: "flyrotary@lancaironline.net" Message-ID: <804856721.917161.1596751861489@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Testing best rpm power setting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_917160_367000892.1596751861486" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.16436 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/84.0.4147.105 Safari/537.36 Edg/84.0.522.52 Content-Length: 11023 ------=_Part_917160_367000892.1596751861486 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, Dave, I am not thinking about power/torque at all. I am responding to RPM only wi= th respect to the available RPM of the engine/prop. Too much pitch is Kinda= like starting a car in high gear.the fact that your RPM increases as the a= ngle of attack to the blades changes with forward movement kinda leads to t= hat conclusion.=C2=A0 Interestingly enough, the warp drive blades were never entered into the equ= ation with X-Plane but the results, in the actual plane were the same. Check your fine pitch stops. Rich -----Original Message----- From: David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2020 11:04 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Testing best rpm power setting After re-reading your email, I think maybe you are thinking about the term = 'best power' that we use in aircraft.=C2=A0 That refers to a mixture settin= g with a given RPM.=C2=A0 Power always goes up with RPM until the very end = of the engine. If you are using the IVO prop, remember that the flex in that prop throws a= wrench into the mix. Dave Leonard On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:36 AM argoldman@aol.com wrote: Hy Guy, It is possible that your initial blade angle is set too coarse. With a CS or Variable pitch prop, one of the purposes is to enable max TO R= PM at takeoff. One of the reasons that the RPM builds up after a few second= s is that after you achieve some forward motion the angle of attack to the = blades changes enabling full RPM. There is another possibility, again relating to the prop and that is that b= ecause of the pitch, the prop is actually stalling producing little lift (t= hrust) until forward motion changes the angle of attack and it unstalls. Th= is is accompanied by a rather strange sound coming from the prop until it u= nstalls. I=C2=A0 had that problem with my dragonfly. (Midwest AE110R/ CS prop (airma= ster)=C2=A0 warp drive blades) Initially when I tried it on an early x-plan= e I thought that it was the program, however in real life it happened exact= ly as simulated. I solved that problem by slowly advancing the throttle. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2020 9:58 am Subject: [FlyRotary] Testing best rpm power setting Hi guys I=E2=80=99m wanting to inflight test for the best RPM for peak power of our= 4 port Renesis with variable pitch prop (No constant speed control at pres= ent). On Takeoff at Full Fine we hit 6900 after a few seconds and then rpm builds= to 7400 by 500 feet and 110 KIAS=20 I=E2=80=99m wondering if we are well past the peak torque and would be bett= er off at a lower rpm. Am I right in thinking the following would use the aircraft as a Dyno to es= tablish rpm for best power? 1. Set up level flight (auto pilot) 2. Maintain WOT and constant mixture (best power - say 0.9 Lambda - 13.2 AF= R) via Wideband O2 3. Vary RPM in 200rpm increments for 2 minutes each setting between 5600 an= d 7200 by adjusting prop pitch 4. Note Fuel Flow and IAS (Logged on Dynon Skyview) I=E2=80=99m thinking this would give me an indication of best RPM for highe= st power. Our Inlet is just under 19=E2=80=9D long, measured from the side face of th= e engine. So I=E2=80=99m thinking peak torque may be around=C2=A0 6400 rpm. Your insight would be appreciated. Thanks Steve Izett=20 Renesis 4 port RD1C (2.85:1) Inflight Adjustable Prop -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html ------=_Part_917160_367000892.1596751861486 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No, Dave,

I am not thinking about power/torque at all. I am responding to RPM on= ly with respect to the available RPM of the engine/prop. Too much pitch is = Kinda like starting a car in high gear.
the fact that your RPM increases as the angle of attack to the blades = changes with forward movement kinda leads to that conclusion. 

Interestingly enough, the warp drive blades were never entered into th= e equation with X-Plane but the results, in the actual plane were the same.=

Check your fine pitch stops.

Rich






-----= Original Message-----
From: David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>=
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2020 11:04 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Testing best rpm power setting

After re-reading your email, I think maybe you are thinking about the = term 'best power' that we use in aircraft.  That refers to a mixture s= etting with a given RPM.  Power always goes up with RPM until the very= end of the engine.

If you are using the IVO prop, remember that the flex in that prop thr= ows a wrench into the mix.

Dave Leonard

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8= :36 AM argoldman@aol.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:
Hy Guy3D"Wink",

It is possible that your initial blade angle is set too coarse.

With a CS or Variable pitch prop, one of the purposes is to enable max= TO RPM at takeoff. One of the reasons that the RPM builds up after a few s= econds is that after you achieve some forward motion the angle of attack to= the blades changes enabling full RPM.

There is another possibility, again relating to the prop and that is t= hat because of the pitch, the prop is actually stalling producing little li= ft (thrust) until forward motion changes the angle of attack and it unstall= s. This is accompanied by a rather strange sound coming from the prop until= it unstalls.

I  had that problem with my dragonfly. (Midwest AE110R/ CS prop (= airmaster)  warp drive blades) Initially when I tried it on an early x= -plane I thought that it was the program, however in real life it happened = exactly as simulated. I solved that problem by slowly advancing the throttl= e.


---= --Original Message-----
From: Stephen Izett stephen.i= zett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Thu, Aug 6, 2020 9:58 am
Subject: [FlyRotary] Testing best rpm power setting

Hi guys

I=E2=80=99m wanting to inflight test for the best RPM for = peak power of our 4 port Renesis with variable pitch prop (No constant spee= d control at present).
On Takeoff at Full Fine we hit 6900 after a few seconds an= d then rpm builds to 7400 by 500 feet and 110 KIAS
I=E2=80=99m wondering if we are well past the peak torque = and would be better off at a lower rpm.

Am I right in thinking the following would use the aircraf= t as a Dyno to establish rpm for best power?

1. Set up level flight (auto pilot)
2. Maintain WOT and constant mixture (best power - say 0.9= Lambda - 13.2 AFR) via Wideband O2
3. Vary RPM in 200rpm increments for 2 minutes each settin= g between 5600 and 7200 by adjusting prop pitch
4. Note Fuel Flow and IAS (Logged on Dynon Skyview)

I=E2=80=99m thinking this would give me an indication of b= est RPM for highest power.
Our Inlet is just under 19=E2=80=9D long, measured from th= e side face of the engine.
So I=E2=80=99m thinking peak torque may be around  64= 00 rpm.

Your insight would be appreciated.
Thanks

Steve Izett
Renesis 4 port RD1C (2.85:1) Inflight Adjustable Prop






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