X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=DFCI+fv169OpPnZCwMv1PA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=qmuww1a9GtkFmU7lR7sA:9 a=QyzsRTBUrynObQZD:21 a=E-KFYsp8mUBMFp4P:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=grpf9ofzh-x5H8lBULYA:9 a=RmywS6lu3ZNuO9T6:21 a=6S3fDExSGORMk-2a:21 a=UBNgTosqaUTdajHT:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ot1-f47.google.com ([209.85.210.47] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 609221 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 06 Aug 2020 00:23:34 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.47; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ot1-f47.google.com with SMTP id t7so21349352otp.0 for ; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:23:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=NlcAVuOd9V8LuS6wMHgLUI9LcL30hLcrJfKcGB8ezT8=; b=ZI/l8oZLf++LHaz/hANCDrQiT1ddQQXzeV7pXRIKahMGRmEMUNxVugCm/uTFiVoSqg +MDOfY78WGX2ooAwNT8OfOsjjWKUi3KzswbRXGMM7kRrjTPxvytXPO6Y+fJvXlV/brGS Kc6b2C8G3F2uK2usLnrMExFz5dPb2Lbp7ASgsYLJG94NkxNaK2G7qwf8qtYKSsjZK8PL oVC3kElCjisV3VcNMrMJkGdDxOqq8V3L8atGpKRNCryAo/pksBgXtqHmOBY06gAbTAgP nyd5/bS8852l11cBRrM9QGQgDTPApuQjacGmNYaa0yw9Ntefc6TTkiZ2DJnPMSP9TbfK T3ow== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=NlcAVuOd9V8LuS6wMHgLUI9LcL30hLcrJfKcGB8ezT8=; b=R/ddZHWCmkAsVONU0gXJUIHY0EJ8BjLTznEyx6fCBsONva/MQlGBVitHzdkHA2e8wL yH8pw8/73Fw5HCTGJQjNQq4Uql1ADZEvitP/2avpeo+UfOjyg76dz/ux/fmY54TzfuGB rCHNuBdt1UMebaGBvhDubC9eD67jo8TuCWJCDz6aF9Zze5eTWrBBLOffgX7aW5Uhnl5B zqAZy4j2W1ZqEUyi6pwi+NB6bla6JbR9EMgVnPAPwWXH+nB53OMKpR6pR80gTQqWwVPY k7ei3eYIpvULI7g++iYssW+XvGSSOKNiLb/5LGHEQDDXD2HQJjr0RSN7s4fQ0Jw7D1PU QDHA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5328VvOXIaS5WUGChXfjIBxk865TQ6cYBLRCX9BLPPa08O8fg8Ah 3b6aXu1APTdkORCSCzAcqNfDF/+OLh3cgjCT7q7f X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz2E+/DT6XNrfb9LgI4M1UloLjLLufShVCwqYOfeOf9AiYa/6Q5VzQv5XNCt0oPKyExZWtrSHqhM1oUYdGzOFI= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:27c8:: with SMTP id c66mr5274034otb.348.1596687797442; Wed, 05 Aug 2020 21:23:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:22:56 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fbdb4d05ac2dd884" --000000000000fbdb4d05ac2dd884 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I ended up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no longer machine the exhaust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core charge to save on shipping down there. I'd rather give it to him than FedEx. So this means I get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'll see what I can do about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. Pretty soon I'll have enough spare parts to build another airplane. As they say "ignorance is bliss", and I was content to think I was not asking much of my turbo and so I didn't have to worry about it, but again this list has proven its value as random info not even directed at me has made me aware that at any given time my poor little turbo could give up the ghost and leave me looking for a place to put down where there are none. I asked him to put a 7psi spring in the actuator, as the TurboSmart controller will allow me to achieve more at the touch of a button. But I may just replace it with my own actuator anyways. I'll decide when I receive it. Now I'm going to rethink my intercooler installation. I had recently removed it as I didn't feel it was a very effective installation due to space constraints and didn't think it was really doing much for me. I now think it was doing more than I thought, but I now have an opportunity with some space freed up to do a better install. Last year I bought a little bitty tiny lithium battery to replace the big old lead acid battery. As it has some smarts on it, the first thing it told me was that it didn't like being over on the hot side of the engine, behind the turbo. So since it is so small and light, it was an easy thing to move over to the other side of the engine, right beside my primary alternator. So I removed the Vans battery mount and now have quite a bit of free space in which to mount the intercooler, however it will probably require some modification. This is all yet to be determined.... Todd Bartrim On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 1:17 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Dave; > Another question for you about your wastegate. Are you using the > wastegate that he provided? And what pressure is the spring? > I told him I would rather use my own wastegate, but he didn't seem to > know what I was talking about when I told him it was a piston type rather > than a diaphragm and kept insisting that I'd want to use his with a 14psi > spring. > I also want the lowest possible spring pressure as I have a TurboSmart > electronic boost controller which can give higher pre-programed pressures > at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pressure signal to the > actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than what the spring > pressure is. > One of my considerations for lower max boost pressure is that my engine > was not originally turbocharged so I have the high compression 9.4:1 roto= rs. > Fot that reason I've always been conservative and tried to limit my > boost to 6psi, which is my current spring pressure. > When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16 psi without > detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subject the engin= e > to regularly. > > Thanks, Todd > > > > On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Hi Dave; >> I talked with BNR today and I'm not sure he really got what I was >> looking for as he started by saying that a "stage 3" is what I should ha= ve >> then said probably a "stage 1" would be good for me. >> But other than that I did like what he has to offer. However I'm >> thinking that even though I don't feel that I have the demands that you = do, >> if I'm going to go this far, I'm going all the way and might as well go = for >> the "stage 4". >> The "stage 4" involves machining the exhaust housing to make room for >> a larger turbine wheel while the others don't. So I wonder if I could >> source those other items and do this myself. But as I don't even know >> enough about my starting point it's not very realistic to find the finis= h >> line without a significant investment in time. So for the low price of >> $1amu, I can have more than what I need. I'm also convinced that paying = the >> $0.1amu core charge is good value when you have to deal with internation= al >> shipping. >> So I guess I just need someone to give me a little shove to push me over >> the edge and call him back with my visa#. >> If he had an "add to cart" button on his website I think we'd be past >> this point after a few beers watching playoff hockey. >> >> Todd >> (The only thing stranger than watching hockey in August, is that >> there is less fans than my beer league games) >> >> >> >> On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com, < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Todd, >>> >>> Thanks for that as was exactly what I was thinking. >>> Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don=E2=80=99t wa= nt the job. >>> Freight listed to the US and back can be $300 each way. Makes the $100 >>> cheap. Will contact them, and see what eventuates as way down the path= of >>> fitting the stock turbo, really do not want to start again. Done that = too >>> many times before. >>> >>> Thanks, Neil. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:56 AM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Neil; >>> >>> I talked to BNR today on the phone about my needs and wants. He said >>> it was about a 3 week turnaround time on the turbo, so I said maybe lat= er >>> this fall. So he suggested that for a $100 dollar core charge, he could >>> just get one there and modify it for me and I can keep this one. That's >>> kinda a no-brainer, because it would cost me that much to ship mine dow= n to >>> him. Then I'm only paying shipping one way. >>> >>> So for you that would make even more sense. >>> >>> Todd Bartrim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave and all, >>> >>> Finally great advice that I cannot get >>> anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the phone line = goes dead. The oil >>> cut off is great as well for I have personal experience with a turbo >>> failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you would not believe the amount of oil th= at can fit >>> into an exhaust! That took more time to clean than replacing the turbo= -- >>> all 5 gallons of it. >>> >>> Will see what I can source here in OZ as to a turbo , as the freight >>> both ways to the US is murderous. Happy with the mod cost which will = be >>> $1300 Oz dollars. Still a cheap turbo. Freight I am guessing will be >>> another $300 at least. >>> >>> >>> >>> Neil. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 PM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Dave; >>> >>> What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? >>> >>> >>> >>> Todd Bartrim >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>> Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its >>> proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be >>> giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perha= ps >>> you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you are not g= oing >>> to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan t= o >>> achieve it. >>> >>> >>> >>> The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13b >>> it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short >>> bursts. I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock turb= o to >>> see what I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo >>> lasted for about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the impell= er >>> was running over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours. I= t >>> probably only lasted that long because most of the time I was not runni= ng >>> full power. The turbo imploded on my first long cross country. I was >>> almost home and decided to let it loose a little. I was running about = 30" >>> MAP at 17.5k altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing that. >>> >>> >>> >>> My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a >>> shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in my >>> installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into the >>> exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you = can >>> get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as y= ou >>> need. >>> >>> >>> >>> Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that are >>> realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically want to >>> fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and paste >>> various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the >>> internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. T= ry >>> to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying away >>> from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. You = will >>> find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readily >>> available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an >>> aircraft. >>> >>> >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Dave Leonard >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>> Group, >>> >>> I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I >>> settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so a= s to >>> not get into >>> >>> any overspeed problems..........FWIW >>> >>> >>> >>> http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 >>> >>> >>> >>> Kelly troyer >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>> Dave, >>> >>> Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the >>> upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock >>> Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation? >>> >>> Neil. >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>> >>> >>> >>> James, >>> >>> I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They also hav= e >>> options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ Cost is $950 for the >>> level 4 upgrade. Makes a nice tight fit. I had a big discussion about >>> Turbo maps that you can find in the archives. I settled on a TO4-H or >>> TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea level. >>> >>> >>> >>> Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate >>> various parameters in selecting a turbo. >>> >>> >>> >>> Dave Leonard >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>> James, >>> >>> 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnard. T= hink they >>> have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the world trying= to >>> get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you tal= k to >>> drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. Bought 2 hitachi tu= rbos >>> for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bearings. >>> >>> There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight >>> only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much= to >>> go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an intercooler tha= t >>> may fit. >>> >>> Best, Neil. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and >>> size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience= is >>> appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from >>> aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage f= or >>> turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --000000000000fbdb4d05ac2dd884 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I ended up ordering the stage 3 turbo from BNR as they no = longer machine the exhaust housing to make a stage 4. I paid the $100 core = charge to save on shipping down there. I'd rather give it to him than F= edEx. So this means I get to keep my old turbo so maybe in the future I'= ;ll see what=C2=A0I can do about sourcing the parts to do my own upgrade. P= retty soon I'll have enough spare parts to build another airplane.
= =C2=A0 As they say "ignorance is bliss", and I was content to thi= nk I was not asking much of my turbo and so I didn't have to worry abou= t it, but again this list has proven its value as random info not even dire= cted at me has made me aware that at any given time my poor little turbo co= uld give up the ghost and leave me looking for a place to put down where th= ere are none.
=C2=A0 I asked him to put a 7psi spring in the actu= ator, as the TurboSmart controller will allow me to achieve more at the tou= ch of a button. But I may just replace it with my own actuator anyways. I&#= 39;ll decide when I receive=C2=A0it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Now I'm goi= ng to rethink my intercooler installation. I had recently removed it as I d= idn't feel it was a very effective installation due to space constraint= s=C2=A0and didn't think it was really doing much for me. I now think it= was doing more than I thought, but I now have an opportunity with some spa= ce freed up to do a better install.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Last year I boug= ht a little bitty tiny lithium battery to replace the big old lead acid bat= tery. As it has some smarts on it, the first thing it told me was that it d= idn't like being over on the hot side of the engine, behind the turbo. = So since it is so small and light, it was an easy thing to move over to the= other side of the engine, right beside my primary alternator. So I removed= the Vans battery mount and now have quite a bit of free space in which to = mount the intercooler, however=C2=A0it will probably require some modificat= ion. This is all yet to be determined....

=
Todd Bartrim


On Wed, Aug 5, = 2020 at 1:17 AM Todd Bartrim bartrim@g= mail.com <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0 Another = question for you about your wastegate. Are you using the wastegate that he = provided? And what pressure is the spring?
=C2=A0 I = told him I would rather use my own wastegate, but he didn't seem to kno= w what I was talking about when I told him it was a piston type rather than= a diaphragm and kept insisting that I'd want to use his with a 14psi s= pring.
I also want the lowest possible spring pressu= re as I have a TurboSmart electronic boost controller which can give higher= pre-programed pressures at the touch of a button, by venting the boost pre= ssure signal to the actuator. But it can't give any pressure lower than= what the spring pressure is.
=C2=A0 One of my consi= derations for lower max boost pressure is that my engine was not originally= turbocharged so I have the high compression 9.4:1 rotors.
=C2=A0 Fot that reason I've always been conservative and tried t= o limit my boost to 6psi, which is my current spring pressure.
=C2=A0 When my original diaphragm actuator burst, I saw about 16= psi without detonation, and it was fun, but not something I want to subjec= t the engine to regularly.

Thanks, Todd



On Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 23:12 Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com, <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ; wrote:
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I talked with BNR today a= nd I'm not sure he really got what I was looking for as he started by s= aying that a "stage 3" is what I should have then said probably a= "stage 1" would be good for me.
=C2=A0 Bu= t other than that I did like what he has to offer. However I'm thinking= that even though I don't feel that I have the demands that you do, if = I'm going to go this far, I'm going all the way and might as well g= o for the "stage 4".
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The &quo= t;stage 4" involves machining the exhaust housing to make room for a l= arger turbine wheel while the others don't. So I wonder if I could sour= ce those other items and do this myself. But as I don't even know enoug= h about my starting point it's not very realistic to find the finish li= ne without a significant investment in time. So for the low price of $1amu,= I can have more than what I need. I'm also convinced that paying the $= 0.1amu core charge is good value when you have to deal with international s= hipping.=C2=A0
So I guess I just need someone to giv= e me a little shove to push me over the edge and call him back with my visa= #.
=C2=A0 If he had an "add to cart" butto= n on his website I think we'd be past this point after a few beers watc= hing playoff hockey.

=C2= =A0Todd
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(The only thing stranger= than watching hockey in August, is that there is less fans than my beer le= ague games)



On= Tue., Aug. 4, 2020, 17:03 12348ung@gmail.com, <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net> wrote:

Todd,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thanks for that as was exactly what I was think= ing.=C2=A0 Have tried many workshops in OZ and either ignorant or don=E2=80= =99t want the job.=C2=A0 Freight listed to the US and back can be $300 each= way.=C2=A0 Makes the $100 cheap.=C2=A0 Will contact them, and see what eve= ntuates as way down the path of fitting the stock turbo, really do not want= to start again.=C2=A0 Done that too many times before.

Thanks,=C2=A0 Neil.=

=C2=A0=

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Wednesday, Augus= t 5, 2020 9:56 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] R= e: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Hi Neil;<= u>

=C2=A0 I talked to BNR today on the p= hone about my needs and wants. He said it was about a 3 week turnaround tim= e on the turbo, so I said maybe later this fall. So he suggested that for a= $100 dollar core charge, he could just get one there and modify it for me = and I can keep this one. That's kinda a no-brainer, because it would co= st me that much to ship mine down to him. Then I'm only paying shipping= one way.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0S= o for you that would make even more sense.=C2=A0

Todd Bartrim

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 3:41 PM 12348ung@gmail.com &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:=

Dave and all,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Finally great advice that = I cannot get anywhere else as mention =E2=80=9CAircraft=E2=80=9D and the ph= one line goes dead.=C2=A0 The oil cut off is great as well for I have perso= nal experience with =C2=A0a turbo failure in a truck =E2=80=93 you would no= t believe the amount of oil that can fit into an exhaust!=C2=A0 That took m= ore time to clean than replacing the turbo-- all 5 gallons of it.=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2= =A0Will see what I can source here in OZ =C2=A0as to a turbo , as the freig= ht both ways to the US=C2=A0 is murderous.=C2=A0 Happy with the mod cost wh= ich will be $1300 Oz dollars.=C2=A0 Still a cheap turbo.=C2=A0 Freight I am= guessing will be another $300 at least.

=C2=A0

Neil.

=C2=A0

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net>
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 4:42 PM
To:<= /b> Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in a= ircraft

=C2=A0<= /p>

Hi Dave;

=C2=A0 What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil?=

=C2=A0

=

Todd Bartrim

=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gma= il.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrot= e:

Kelly, y= ou are right.=C2=A0 I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above.

=C2=A0

Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping t= he turbo in its proper operating environment for the conditions you are goi= ng to be giving.=C2=A0 You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, bu= t it seem that perhaps you dont=C2=A0have a specific=C2=A0target in mind.= =C2=A0 Thats fine, but you are not going to land much above 180hp unless yo= u have a specific target and a plan to achieve it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine.=C2=A0 = It and the 2nd gen 13b it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - an= d only for short bursts.=C2=A0 I did what you are thinking about doing.=C2= =A0 I ran the stock turbo to see what I would get.=C2=A0 I was making a lit= tle over 200hp and the turbo lasted for about 70 flight hours.=C2=A0 Lookin= g=C2=A0at its turbo map, the impeller was running over 100k RPM.=C2=A0 It&#= 39;s very surprising it lasted 70 hours.=C2=A0 It probably only lasted that= long because most of the time I was not running full power.=C2=A0 The turb= o imploded on my first long cross country.=C2=A0 I was almost home and deci= ded to let it loose a little.=C2=A0 I was running=C2=A0about 30" MAP a= t 17.5k altitude.=C2=A0 It lasted about 30 min doing that.

=C2=A0

My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to i= nstall a shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo.=C2=A0 I now have= one in my installation.=C2=A0 When the turbo=C2=A0goes it will be hemorrha= ging=C2=A0oil into the exhaust.=C2=A0 Without a shut-off valve, you will ru= n out of oil before you can get very far.=C2=A0 With the valve, you can con= tinue to fly n/a as long as you need.

=C2=A0

Pl= ay around with that spreadsheet I sent you.=C2=A0 Make up numbers that are = realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically=C2=A0want t= o fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters.=C2=A0 You can cut and pas= te various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 They are available on the= internet but most of the relevant=C2=A0ones are there on the spreadsheet.= =C2=A0 Try to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while stayi= ng away from the 'surge' line.=C2=A0 Also, keep the RPM under 60k i= f possible.=C2=A0 You will find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a = good choice and readily available.=C2=A0 You will also see that the stock T= 3 does not belong in an aircraft.

=C2=A0

Best,

Dave Leonard

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:

= =C2=A0

On Mon, Aug 3, 202= 0 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=

Dave,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Just = how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the upgraded Turbo?=C2=A0 I wi= ll be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock Hitachi.=C2=A0 Am I off with = the fairys having this expectation?

Neil.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">James,

I= had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 They also hav= e options for the Renisis.=C2=A0http://bnrsupercars.com/=C2= =A0Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade.=C2=A0 Makes a nice tight fit.=C2= =A0 I had a big discussion about Turbo maps that you can find in the archiv= es.=C2=A0 I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around 350hp at sea le= vel.

=C2=A0

Attached is a turbo excel spreadshee= t that you can use to evaluate various parameters in selecting a turbo.<= /u>

=C2=A0

Dave Leonard

=C2=A0

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:<= /p>

James,

=C2=A0 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd= =C2=A0 Bartrim and Dave leonnard.=C2=A0 Think they have the standard RX7 Hi= tachi turbo.=C2=A0 Just been around the world trying to get an affordable= =C2=A0 turbo for my renesis which does not exist if you talk to drag racers= etc.,=C2=A0 Quotes between $4500 and $6500.=C2=A0 Bought 2 hitachi turbos = for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will need bearings.=

=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight only.=C2=A0 Would= be a bargain.=C2=A0 Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much to go that= I have not factored as usual.=C2=A0 Finally found an intercooler that may = fit.

Be= st,=C2=A0 Neil.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in air= craft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Se= nt: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in airc= raft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Subj= ect: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0

Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and siz= e) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience is app= reciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from aircraft... o= r so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage for turbos= . Thanks, James Whitehurst

=


=C2=A0

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