X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=QF6DTZBTSm3UB03eFs26XA==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=mPpAlzoyAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=YoqACY-TCZw7PGb2ltcA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=-9v_JbDb-ZoA:10 a=xdFBsozBOARBRKyPOScA:9 a=zKQDh2HOSOLSnR4H:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=c8bjAVVP6yRcgDy_Aagi:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-il1-f171.google.com ([209.85.166.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 603725 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 12:13:03 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.166.171; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-il1-f171.google.com with SMTP id t18so34708960ilh.2 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 09:13:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vdlb6dB65ow9ywisLsh+JneQ7FaLUzwlqoJZsOplc74=; b=hUrKR7P9RewNts3nUjiTM1Ky9We0lQ3FVgeVZZ2t8mxIF071z6CPX67ZV8EGVxRf+M N+gF52xPbvvhMxO27TaReEKhyhWaOu1e+KHaEkVSJqg+C+p2QtcBjjoY6ZGbuVanwEdI Z5iF9Dqq8iS6aWErpZd2zvfJvCqZ+4LCfpH0eYdtCkDcESe8Z8wbb/7R4K7X0V3fJrvn Dz5NAlTZOe8lE2WH/qniz4Tcy8fzY7/Cry7A6Q9AHqlYbqU6lFogQOHAgViklJ/fwStM eqTjqZ5pVF7igvaBq60GhTLs/QyZcEtbechk3Gn7fyjtLcIrmK0c+PMxLTYw3GZgDZYh F52Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vdlb6dB65ow9ywisLsh+JneQ7FaLUzwlqoJZsOplc74=; b=fDdkM3I2L9EWHXR49tRy+cuI9ryAxuOSm4w+UQbcBUh+tL53SmnDReOkkssd34rzvT ZwK9pjpkqs4JjzVCNm54DxXMj2S8l79GTaLXGLnGYZfbGGhIbo1DTAfP4BxBTZ+g6Sq9 Zo0k7ViUVPjwE6VtmutlB9j18YtiCU/hybTlVOwvODs25UhKMstmFPGBvOpH7nolE/aC zHXfv+tSEwBl0mrN4EezFsXmKLI9hYmjOLfzIflyCewtv4ZOiqGBTqDQthXai2cGEWxg nDgPA3Xhi1FqiU3ms/RtmqkwI9BdxduUZ3uWkGv1fqCh7Il2Q1dzNLRRwEmPg2C+ICoQ SdSg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530z6kZOwvks3f8lP2LpFnFAaUQMCuWjwu4VWvVrOQAB1Rpn7Isl Iv8kFh1VHOFugUX/h0HHjlPWyaw+5jjv+70vj0839E/0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJykS6VDkvE1fGlci3qcmViQOH9BHRkESr2ZuW2wLAimVI5vhUq3DIFaYTs1Y3Sf8R3xYBmq7F1DCZmkEnv+7BE= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c0c3:: with SMTP id t3mr5684124ilf.47.1596557565550; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 09:12:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 11:12:02 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008ee4cc05ac0f86c0" --0000000000008ee4cc05ac0f86c0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ~$80-$90? On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:01 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > I don't see why not. Though not much advantage over 12V that I can think > of. > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:57 AM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Any reason a stainless (or even brass) ball valve (with a pull-cable to >> activate) wouldn't work? >> >> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:37 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> I did a google search. there was a company in FL that made valves to >>> spec. I got a normally open, 12v, electric valve with oil tolerant >>> innards and NPT fittings. cost about $120 at the time. Cant remember = the >>> name of the company.... >>> >>> Here it is: >>> http://www.jeffersonvalves.com/inicio.asp?sec=3Di&lang=3Dleng >>> They are not really set up for the small guy, but they were nice enough >>> to me. Special order, took a couple of weeks. >>> >>> Dave Leonard >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:42 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Dave; >>>> What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? >>>> >>>> Todd Bartrim >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. >>>>> >>>>> Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in it= s >>>>> proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be >>>>> giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that per= haps >>>>> you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you are not= going >>>>> to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan= to >>>>> achieve it. >>>>> >>>>> The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13= b >>>>> it ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short >>>>> bursts. I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock tu= rbo to >>>>> see what I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo >>>>> lasted for about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the impe= ller >>>>> was running over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours. = It >>>>> probably only lasted that long because most of the time I was not run= ning >>>>> full power. The turbo imploded on my first long cross country. I wa= s >>>>> almost home and decided to let it loose a little. I was running abou= t 30" >>>>> MAP at 17.5k altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing that. >>>>> >>>>> My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a >>>>> shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in = my >>>>> installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into t= he >>>>> exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before yo= u can >>>>> get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as= you >>>>> need. >>>>> >>>>> Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that >>>>> are realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically w= ant to >>>>> fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and past= e >>>>> various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the >>>>> internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. = Try >>>>> to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying aw= ay >>>>> from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. Yo= u will >>>>> find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readi= ly >>>>> available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an >>>>> aircraft. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Dave Leonard >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >>>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Group, >>>>>> I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I >>>>>> settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing s= o as to >>>>>> not get into >>>>>> any overspeed problems..........FWIW >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 >>>>>> >>>>>> Kelly troyer >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>>>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dave, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy >>>>>>> the upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the st= ock >>>>>>> Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation?* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Neil.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM= To: >>>>>>> Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 1= 3b's in >>>>>>> aircraft* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *James,* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They als= o >>>>>>> have options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ >>>>>>> Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade. M= akes a >>>>>>> nice tight fit. I had a big discussion about Turbo maps that you c= an find >>>>>>> in the archives. I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around= 350hp >>>>>>> at sea level.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate >>>>>>> various parameters in selecting a turbo.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Dave Leonard* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com >>>>>>> <12348ung@gmail.com> >>>>>> > wrote:* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *James,* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnar= d. Think >>>>>>> they have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the wor= ld >>>>>>> trying to get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not ex= ist if >>>>>>> you talk to drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. Bou= ght 2 >>>>>>> hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other wil= l need >>>>>>> bearings.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * There was an offer of one in south Africa for >>>>>>> freight only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but a= s usual >>>>>>> much to go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an int= ercooler >>>>>>> that may fit.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Best, Neil.* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> > Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 A= MTo: >>>>>>> Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>>> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's= in >>>>>>> aircraft* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand >>>>>>> and size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or ex= perience >>>>>>> is appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from >>>>>>> aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision sta= ge for >>>>>>> turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --0000000000008ee4cc05ac0f86c0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
~$8= 0-$90?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 11:01 AM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I don'= ;t see why not.=C2=A0 Though not much advantage over 12V that I can think o= f.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 8:57 AM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net> wrote:
Any reason a stainless (or even brass) ball valve (with a pull-cable to= activate) wouldn't work?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 10:37 AM David Le= onard wdleonard@gm= ail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I d= id a google search.=C2=A0 there was a company in FL that made valves to spe= c.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I got a normally open, 12v, electric valve with oil tolerant= innards and NPT fittings.=C2=A0 cost about $120 at the time.=C2=A0 Cant re= member the name of the company....

Here it is:
http://www.jeffersonvalves.com/inicio.asp?sec= =3Di&lang=3Dleng
They are not really set up for the small guy, b= ut they were nice enough to me.=C2=A0 Special order, took a couple of weeks= .=C2=A0

Dave Leonard

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:42 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0 What did you use for a shut-off = valve for your oil?

Todd Bartrim


On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:1= 6 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Kelly, you a= re right.=C2=A0 I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above.

Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in i= ts proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be givi= ng.=C2=A0 You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem tha= t perhaps you dont=C2=A0have a specific=C2=A0target in mind.=C2=A0 Thats fi= ne, but you are not going to land much above 180hp unless you have a specif= ic target and a plan to achieve it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Th= e stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine.=C2=A0 It and the 2nd gen 13b i= t ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short bursts.= =C2=A0 I did what you are thinking about doing.=C2=A0 I ran the stock turbo= to see what I would get.=C2=A0 I was making a little over 200hp and the tu= rbo lasted for about 70 flight hours.=C2=A0 Looking=C2=A0at its turbo map, = the impeller was running over 100k RPM.=C2=A0 It's very surprising it l= asted 70 hours.=C2=A0 It probably only lasted that long because most of the= time I was not running full power.=C2=A0 The turbo imploded on my first lo= ng cross country.=C2=A0 I was almost home and decided to let it loose a lit= tle.=C2=A0 I was running=C2=A0about 30" MAP at 17.5k altitude.=C2=A0 I= t lasted about 30 min doing that.

My advice, if yo= u want to experiment with turbos, is to install a shut-off valve on the oil= feed line to the turbo.=C2=A0 I now have one in my installation.=C2=A0 Whe= n the turbo=C2=A0goes it will be hemorrhaging=C2=A0oil into the exhaust.=C2= =A0 Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you can get ve= ry far.=C2=A0 With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as you ne= ed.

Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you.= =C2=A0 Make up numbers that are realistic for how much boost at what altitu= de you realistically=C2=A0want to fly, then find a turbo to fit those param= eters.=C2=A0 You can cut and paste various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet.= =C2=A0 They are available on the internet but most of the relevant=C2=A0one= s are there on the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 Try to keep the turbo in its center i= sland of efficiency while staying away from the 'surge' line.=C2=A0= Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible.=C2=A0 You will find that Kellys = suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readily available.=C2=A0 You= will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an aircraft.
=
Best,
Dave Leonard

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:1= 9 PM Kelly Troyer kel= tro@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Gr= oup,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no running experience yet but when I purchased= my turbo I settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r tu= rbine housing so as to not get into=C2=A0
any overspeed problems.= .........FWIW

<= div>
Kelly troyer

<= div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com <= ;flyrotary= @lancaironline.net> wrote:

Dave,

<= u>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Just how much extra Hp do you think= you got withy the upgraded Turbo?=C2=A0 I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP= from the stock Hitachi.=C2=A0 Am I off with the fairys having this expecta= tion?

= Neil.

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in= aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 3, = 2020 4:07 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft=

=C2= =A0

James,

I had my s= tock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 They also have options= for the Renisis.=C2=A0http://bnrsupercars.com/=C2=A0Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade.= =C2=A0 Makes a nice tight fit.=C2=A0 I had a big discussion about Turbo map= s that you can find in the archives.=C2=A0 I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 = to top out around 350hp at sea level.

=C2=A0

Attached is a turbo excel spreadshee= t that you can use to evaluate various parameters in selecting a turbo.<= u>

=C2= =A0

Da= ve Leonard

= =C2=A0

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t; wrote:

= James,

=C2=A0 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd=C2=A0 Bartrim and Dave le= onnard.=C2=A0 Think they have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo.=C2=A0 Just be= en around the world trying to get an affordable=C2=A0 turbo for my renesis = which does not exist if you talk to drag racers etc.,=C2=A0 Quotes between = $4500 and $6500.=C2=A0 Bought 2 hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set t= o go while the other will need bearings.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Th= ere was an offer of one in south Africa for freight only.=C2=A0 Would be a = bargain.=C2=A0 Just hooking mine up now, but as usual much to go that I hav= e not factored as usual.=C2=A0 Finally found an intercooler that may fit.

Best,=C2=A0 Neil.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From:= Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft = <flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b= 's in aircraft

=C2=A0

= Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand = and size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience= is appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from aircra= ft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage for= turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst

=


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