X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PbaBeRpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=tnYjCl3dHaLJDVn5KVv3mQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=y4yBn9ojGxQA:10 a=mPpAlzoyAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=RG6hcgD4AAAA:8 a=fR6g6WPwAAAA:8 a=ayVMdAUh5FsH-xMXYuAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=-9v_JbDb-ZoA:10 a=hOeugfDNugLPnndKC-oA:9 a=1XVeu4QCvblxXjSN:21 a=c8bjAVVP6yRcgDy_Aagi:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=N6I4LDFSjv0JWTRmzZqO:22 a=pVye9tYEF4-vSOQs7cMh:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi1-f177.google.com ([209.85.167.177] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 603482 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 11:37:00 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.167.177; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi1-f177.google.com with SMTP id v13so20074363oiv.13 for ; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=NjhYL1SdkBovigSoFznppmpE14wOgIsdqriNGJhbyDk=; b=cchN3/zg3XxWz+LA6KBsFuAuS+4VF0Zl/cWDwSYP5MK4n9n+jUuKaxbRJVMwfOWo/8 DVv77yXqpT/hhxbBqvq18C7khc/cPg7rqovQwq/RzntqMx1XYS4nEMfarAZCci+M+AxR yDbMld57UtUK0Kb6NEII6AzRnQu5wYwRzjhDEAz99+v3hAukIr3vs0qQjgzKUp5nhnb8 Bzz4laYeWma8kJhk0XUKyzQuZjEdGgLYWtzWqAetcmHabM3eeF0vkAyVh5OdkrqT+iIF 5KMwb96/HF5tKrdL2FBbCdYkUFpkBZYYQw/6K992XspwfWuEsyDwvO75fNrs7PIXDTzf B4ag== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=NjhYL1SdkBovigSoFznppmpE14wOgIsdqriNGJhbyDk=; b=VI7ZPQ9m6PGhHC7ArdJGPYcU/qH12fqQT50VaIqAu1u6+6ETReXHXHjLbXJkTC1dty xypScr+pyeFzd6JZEfv6f7w4o81pQ0qapdPaQ1PXIDNaRU5gAVztjaSlXXnNyNxxUikb emozO7TJKxewEKDw7LTB4Ju7Rg78P/dfdRJ8/M4V24xM1sJ6XuV+p5wxXRQDamfM5bnP 0N4GBbLhnq2l1tLltvfouwxlJHASIdLA7QB0tLG2x66ex/MmGiWUZqqTo82KmfV4CUF1 GZYeuY8QYPLYdvngNMb9hvbb7TfLYJdRycP7dCSHC97+GTlTOEqQ/knwWZ33Lf+fLKEm VErA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5321zWydrpuRrBloz3BxfB/Ph5Nqdy8sl9AhtWCtzQD3NSUNE0v3 yzogi1Je5aBN/ncSar9a1AgMkiHapMYxXo3iBiSxS6jL X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzA3XUM2cee30PxGVXGQqoqE/gNjYMof4h5iI4uU+4whoc0flYPJN3ITsm94W1eLlzg7kUNEEIKNCgbh3ln0UE= X-Received: by 2002:aca:4ccd:: with SMTP id z196mr3666551oia.86.1596555402241; Tue, 04 Aug 2020 08:36:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2020 08:36:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009d6afe05ac0f0550" --0000000000009d6afe05ac0f0550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I did a google search. there was a company in FL that made valves to spec. I got a normally open, 12v, electric valve with oil tolerant innards and NPT fittings. cost about $120 at the time. Cant remember the name of the company.... Here it is: http://www.jeffersonvalves.com/inicio.asp?sec=3Di&lang=3Dleng They are not really set up for the small guy, but they were nice enough to me. Special order, took a couple of weeks. Dave Leonard On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 11:42 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Dave; > What did you use for a shut-off valve for your oil? > > Todd Bartrim > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Kelly, you are right. I even mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above. >> >> Mark, its not about the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its >> proper operating environment for the conditions you are going to be >> giving. You mentioned "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perhap= s >> you dont have a specific target in mind. Thats fine, but you are not go= ing >> to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan to >> achieve it. >> >> The stock hitachi you mention is a T3 turbine. It and the 2nd gen 13b i= t >> ran with were only rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short bursts= . >> I did what you are thinking about doing. I ran the stock turbo to see w= hat >> I would get. I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo lasted for >> about 70 flight hours. Looking at its turbo map, the impeller was runni= ng >> over 100k RPM. It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours. It probably on= ly >> lasted that long because most of the time I was not running full power. >> The turbo imploded on my first long cross country. I was almost home an= d >> decided to let it loose a little. I was running about 30" MAP at 17.5k >> altitude. It lasted about 30 min doing that. >> >> My advice, if you want to experiment with turbos, is to install a >> shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the turbo. I now have one in my >> installation. When the turbo goes it will be hemorrhaging oil into the >> exhaust. Without a shut-off valve, you will run out of oil before you c= an >> get very far. With the valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as yo= u >> need. >> >> Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you. Make up numbers that are >> realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically want to >> fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters. You can cut and paste >> various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet. They are available on the >> internet but most of the relevant ones are there on the spreadsheet. Tr= y >> to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency while staying away >> from the 'surge' line. Also, keep the RPM under 60k if possible. You w= ill >> find that Kellys suggestion of the TO4-E50 is a good choice and readily >> available. You will also see that the stock T3 does not belong in an >> aircraft. >> >> Best, >> Dave Leonard >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Group, >>> I have no running experience yet but when I purchased my turbo I >>> settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so a= s to >>> not get into >>> any overspeed problems..........FWIW >>> >>> http://www.turboneticsinc.com/industrial/product/turbochargers-0 >>> >>> Kelly troyer >>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 4:51 PM 12348ung@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> * Just how much extra Hp do you think you got withy the >>>> upgraded Turbo? I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the stock >>>> Hitachi. Am I off with the fairys having this expectation?* >>>> >>>> *Neil.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AMTo: >>>> Rotary motors in aircraft >>> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b'= s in >>>> aircraft* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *James,* >>>> >>>> *I had my stock housing upgraded to TO4 by BNR Supercars. They also >>>> have options for the Renisis. http://bnrsupercars.com/ >>>> Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade. Make= s a >>>> nice tight fit. I had a big discussion about Turbo maps that you can = find >>>> in the archives. I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around 35= 0hp >>>> at sea level.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use to evaluate >>>> various parameters in selecting a turbo.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Dave Leonard* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com >>>> <12348ung@gmail.com> >>> > wrote:* >>>> >>>> *James,* >>>> >>>> * 2 flying that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd Bartrim and Dave leonnard. = Think >>>> they have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo. Just been around the world >>>> trying to get an affordable turbo for my renesis which does not exist= if >>>> you talk to drag racers etc., Quotes between $4500 and $6500. Bought= 2 >>>> hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the other will n= eed >>>> bearings.* >>>> >>>> * There was an offer of one in south Africa for freight >>>> only. Would be a bargain. Just hooking mine up now, but as usual muc= h to >>>> go that I have not factored as usual. Finally found an intercooler th= at >>>> may fit.* >>>> >>>> *Best, Neil.* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: Rotary motors in aircraft >>> > Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 11:48 AMTo= : >>>> Rotary motors in aircraft >>> >Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in >>>> aircraft* >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Does anyone out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and >>>> size) for a 13b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experienc= e is >>>> appreciated! Auto racers have their needs but are different from >>>> aircraft... or so I've heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage = for >>>> turbos. Thanks, James Whitehurst* >>>> >>>> >>> >>> --0000000000009d6afe05ac0f0550 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I did a google search.=C2=A0 there w= as a company in FL that made valves to spec.=C2=A0=C2=A0 I got a normally o= pen, 12v, electric valve with oil tolerant innards and NPT fittings.=C2=A0 = cost about $120 at the time.=C2=A0 Cant remember the name of the company...= .

Here it is:
http:= //www.jeffersonvalves.com/inicio.asp?sec=3Di&lang=3Dleng
They ar= e not really set up for the small guy, but they were nice enough to me.=C2= =A0 Special order, took a couple of weeks.=C2=A0

= Dave Leonard

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 = at 11:42 PM Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0 What did you use for a = shut-off valve for your oil?

Todd Bartrim


On Mon, Aug 3, 20= 20 at 8:16 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Kelly, you are right.=C2=A0 I even= mentioned the TO4-E50 in my post above.

Mark, its not a= bout the horsepower so much as keeping the turbo in its proper operating en= vironment for the conditions you are going to be giving.=C2=A0 You mentione= d "300-400hp" in your post, but it seem that perhaps you dont=C2= =A0have a specific=C2=A0target in mind.=C2=A0 Thats fine, but you are not g= oing to land much above 180hp unless you have a specific target and a plan = to achieve it.=C2=A0=C2=A0

The stock hitachi you m= ention is a T3 turbine.=C2=A0 It and the 2nd gen 13b it ran with were only = rated at 200hp in the car - and only for short bursts.=C2=A0 I did what you= are thinking about doing.=C2=A0 I ran the stock turbo to see what I would = get.=C2=A0 I was making a little over 200hp and the turbo lasted for about = 70 flight hours.=C2=A0 Looking=C2=A0at its turbo map, the impeller was runn= ing over 100k RPM.=C2=A0 It's very surprising it lasted 70 hours.=C2=A0= It probably only lasted that long because most of the time I was not runni= ng full power.=C2=A0 The turbo imploded on my first long cross country.=C2= =A0 I was almost home and decided to let it loose a little.=C2=A0 I was run= ning=C2=A0about 30" MAP at 17.5k altitude.=C2=A0 It lasted about 30 mi= n doing that.

My advice, if you want to experiment= with turbos, is to install a shut-off valve on the oil feed line to the tu= rbo.=C2=A0 I now have one in my installation.=C2=A0 When the turbo=C2=A0goe= s it will be hemorrhaging=C2=A0oil into the exhaust.=C2=A0 Without a shut-o= ff valve, you will run out of oil before you can get very far.=C2=A0 With t= he valve, you can continue to fly n/a as long as you need.

Play around with that spreadsheet I sent you.=C2=A0 Make up number= s that are realistic for how much boost at what altitude you realistically= =C2=A0want to fly, then find a turbo to fit those parameters.=C2=A0 You can= cut and paste various turbo maps onto the spreadsheet.=C2=A0 They are avai= lable on the internet but most of the relevant=C2=A0ones are there on the s= preadsheet.=C2=A0 Try to keep the turbo in its center island of efficiency = while staying away from the 'surge' line.=C2=A0 Also, keep the RPM = under 60k if possible.=C2=A0 You will find that Kellys suggestion of the TO= 4-E50 is a good choice and readily available.=C2=A0 You will also see that = the stock T3 does not belong in an aircraft.

Best,=
Dave Leonard

On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 5:19 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com &l= t;flyrotar= y@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Group,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0I have no running experience ye= t but when I purchased my turbo I settled on a "Turbonetics" TO4-= E50 with a 1.15 a/r turbine housing so as to not get into=C2=A0
a= ny overspeed problems..........FWIW


Kelly troyer

On Mon, Aug 3, = 2020 at 4:51 PM 123= 48ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Dave,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Just how much extra Hp do you think you got wit= hy the upgraded Turbo?=C2=A0 I will be happy with 250 to 300 HP from the st= ock Hitachi.=C2=A0 Am I off with the fairys having this expectation?<= /u>

Neil.

=C2=A0

From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net>
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 4:07 AM
<= b>To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sub= ject: [FlyRotary] Re: Turbos for 13b's in aircraft

=C2=A0=

James,

I had my stock housing upgra= ded to TO4 by BNR Supercars.=C2=A0 They also have options for the Renisis.= =C2=A0http://bnrsupe= rcars.com/=C2=A0Cost is $950 for the level 4 upgrade.=C2=A0 Makes a nic= e tight fit.=C2=A0 I had a big discussion about Turbo maps that you can fin= d in the archives.=C2=A0 I settled on a TO4-H or TO4-E50 to top out around = 350hp at sea level.

=C2=A0

Attached is a turbo excel spreadsheet that you can use= to evaluate various parameters in selecting a turbo.=

=C2=A0=

Dave Leonard

=C2=A0=

On Sun= , Aug 2, 2020 at 12:07 AM 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

James,

=C2=A0 2 flyin= g that I know of =E2=80=93 Todd=C2=A0 Bartrim and Dave leonnard.=C2=A0 Thin= k they have the standard RX7 Hitachi turbo.=C2=A0 Just been around the worl= d trying to get an affordable=C2=A0 turbo for my renesis which does not exi= st if you talk to drag racers etc.,=C2=A0 Quotes between $4500 and $6500.= =C2=A0 Bought 2 hitachi turbos for $125 and one looks set to go while the o= ther will need bearings.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 There was an offer o= f one in south Africa for freight only.=C2=A0 Would be a bargain.=C2=A0 Jus= t hooking mine up now, but as usual much to go that I have not factored as = usual.=C2=A0 Finally found an intercooler that may fit.

Best,= =C2=A0 Neil.

= =C2=A0

=C2=A0=

From: Rotary motors= in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Sunday, August = 2, 2020 11:48 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Turbos for 13b's in aircraft=

=C2=A0<= u>

Does anyo= ne out there have any recommendations for a turbo (brand and size) for a 13= b in an aircraft? 300-400 hp range. Reasons or experience is appreciated! A= uto racers have their needs but are different from aircraft... or so I'= ve heard. My 13b's are nearing the decision stage for turbos. Thanks, J= ames Whitehurst



<= /div>
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