X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=BpPjPrf5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=R+xXOnO1yuieuS58HStjQA==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=e8BSqymJ620A:10 a=Jdjhy38mL1oA:10 a=T8OIu21NfXMA:10 a=HZJGGiqLAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=PooUNHRoKPUrB2l6basA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Py9Ta2HYjrcA:10 a=NALRNPPH8BMA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=l38v18rorWX3hhRS:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: " argoldman@aol.com" Received: from sonic314-20.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com ([98.137.69.83] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 13408157 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 18:25:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=98.137.69.83; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1579562722; bh=UIeYHm2lKytMwpnRopsjj+fXPZ2AHDsft/O6QEwEFZM=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=Sd9oaz6vMKNYYvdrPG8JYgg1lILKa/yXj+D0Lq7VO4YSIUiqaE/eoYRbNya+LZ3FYkBVQYmvvyEkh7cc6Hy4MO5LSQjNUM/W2pzpYHomKNDsGpC4QTVTuKWCzSX1G8dYrRgx+R3AED2yqZfzNjIf7VaVorGnER1qXrNVv0IFF2vqf4gC6MqRgfr+47vtXR78CeqAWcPODCRpWb9R75hFcQLT7wHkzCR3BmQaiRGQzvkbYOVuzhSIP3C/Zg+ALm1dBHLybH/quoY6VV3vKfOj5jGE7xl+AcAGF9VQfPEeZas9L+aikO9lMGlMz2r6iDTpgxCHC+55X61Ke2gKWePquw== X-YMail-OSG: KyyIsN0VM1lEGLpcYYzZpJnC.mUylawGBhZoYI_fUWRf.ySDuKqu44N9OdevoFH cgYmsSOu8i2Ks.c6h6wG3Q8ZqiBPhFo.2VB28NUfU_zHT_kvjw94pr.JNBsjMVwNemFaHy8pI4aN gNiygWJtfBVkaIYMSzhWSufkjCufWWp7Zw8dFizVWXq_WQ2b.mNSnq5.Iab6ChmB0e69olUD3IyO 7ZlfanAe2VfSTTwnsWbIrJVfuRtwF8GcvmSzXx3nTAQpRmTczvHsZ1zrVqFQ.AvS7OH.NFp8hU5n XnrzPyk4YAjXSveE0eQWndYwgeNRWVXlHPd7_CuBzihVhgMxL5JjOb6ABkkhkks2BcoJOpxJz9oD jb1GamOBjsydnGzTqp9qpfS1SwlodUn6f5lyfBjugYt1MtoC_R0wy6uL5c6Qjja39jmD1hTRnpcQ v8uriC62sWHlVJbZb0Aw2ogVHkirY7oqHeDO1pIbV2L4vC_SRWzZ336_ip_8Tt9j2BLq_noeWVpB hdKj7BqNufmJeclh50It_ciUZD3Hq2YmBW2QPKoc49b7mP.B_4jNPzsL2e1_sKWwGv4KVr5uh2Bk DvHuHQGlmL.uo1sU9yhKRn.f3kKYVCZg_nzC8cS65fbu58EImDSIhMhl9FYu5gvhUQNrNiPWJYvU SM4d06QGu8aWdAUZ0URRACXyu_YzOoxfvYx8l9DxRSWqqJvxLuA0UZxQKjRimrKX6POkzh5BuUCD .5OuO2ihIiih2W.1tS.y7Hbk4MXkiwNBqrsWxpdBMD_sZhjEf.PyLC1nwwEJyQN0cXNV5wn8syZX JD1A72SjhTK81ad0MPXDYBS2mF21vzYHJvP3reydmSO8xIrwWXVc3iAf_u.TdDKTr_lYR8Vos84Y G2wMI1sk2Ctp5r99jp6cqWVhHV8peu3nkG4mjhimH61CZQ86vXcMbvpoS70oyCcp8GRsg.Kj8ggf s5BvWgRHoCOSlMlV8FbRrkG2AMDmMqUUhHkQuDSZu8GfFP6ceMGZagBPIidWHhb1KvTiebiC8EpL PZ.74e3MmN4BJFrJ8giiYKN8k1Znci7.DWFbNKAG_d4GtkMqEfQ58iLBOa8C5zsrNlcTsUN8n0gu zwrbltTv8QGZmT8bBkBRdoaTwTHXLYX9zQxTwWonGhg2upS7Pj.XRYiR24iX7wDTEy.OIgsq8SMY WPRACXbs7ZkCPpIu5dp1B2uQlB.0icPgqvXJ3mQi.W_yLzAw5M3tAMcmYJ7Iqn75dJzSdvArgcYm LzIhud4pZ4AspwAefvOIon3jixWmPOtTtzmsYJQO6 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 23:25:22 +0000 Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 23:25:21 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1398743516.16677867.1579562721857@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design for High wing Aircraft MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_16677866_1744394089.1579562721855" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14873 aolwebmail Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:72.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/72.0 Content-Length: 10855 ------=_Part_16677866_1744394089.1579562721855 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My understanding is that the volume of fuel spurted, by the injector,=C2= =A0 is related to the time the injector is open and the fuel pressure. My g= uess is that the pumps vary slightly in pressure as they run thus each shot= -o-fuel would be different based on the variable pump outlet pressure yield= ing an unsteady mixture. There are probably some pressure regulators that are sensitive enough not t= o need a return line. Anybody know of such a beast? Rich =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Ernest Christley echristley@att.net To: Rotary motors in aircraft Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 4:23 pm Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design for High wing Aircraft Does the fuel necessarily have to be returned?=C2=A0 What is the benefit o= f returning it?=C2=A0 Injectors can take 50lbs of pressure.=C2=A0 In fact, = they make a better spray with the higher pressure, and atomize even better = if the fuel is sprayed hot.=C2=A0 Many modern cars don't have a return.=C2= =A0 As long as you keep the pumps=C2=A0 and the gas going to them cool, you= won't get vapor lock.=C2=A0=20 Keep the fuel pump below the injectors and behind the firewall.=C2=A0 It'll= draw cool fuel and then pressurize it to keep it liquid until it is spraye= d.=C2=A0 On shutdown, the fuel in the line firewall forward will get hot an= d vaporize, pushing liquid back to the pump.=C2=A0 But, as soon as the pump= is flipped on the vapor gets compressed and liquified again for the rest o= f its time in the line. I could be wrong. . .=20 On Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:43:07 AM EST, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datac= ast.com wrote: =20 =20 Hi Bobby, yes Ed used a small (1 qt) can attached to the engine-side of th= e firewall, to accept main fuel IN, return fuel and parallel outputs to his= fuel pumps.=C2=A0 This system would work regardless of wing arrangement bu= t I'm not too sure how it performed at keeping LOW fuel temperatures. My high-wing has a 2 gallon header tank on the cabin-side of the firewall, = so I Tee'd my fuel return into one of its two vent lines that connect back = to the wing tanks.=C2=A0 This is a gravity-fed system until it passes throu= gh the firewall to the pumps ... the vent lines assist in draining the tank= s evenly.=20 Jeff=20 What is the best method for handling return fuel in a high wing? Fuel retur= n to a small header tank sized to keep fuel temperatures low? I think Ed An= derson may have used a small header in his RV6. Asking for a friend with an airplane addiction. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 Sent: January-20-20 6:01 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: flyrotary Digest #4865 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #4865 1) Re: Mufflers =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" 2) Re: Mufflers =C2=A0 =C2=A0 by "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" This digest is sent to you because you are subscribed to =C2=A0 the mailing list . To unsubscribe, E-mail to: To switch to t= he FEED mode, E-mail to Send administrative queries to=C2=A0 -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html =20 ------=_Part_16677866_1744394089.1579562721855 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
My understanding is that the volume of fuel spurted, by the injector,  is related to the time the injector is open and the fuel pressure. My guess is that the pumps vary slightly in pressure as they run thus each shot-o-fuel would be different based on the variable pump outlet pressure yielding an unsteady mixture.

There are probably some pressure regulators that are sensitive enough not to need a return line. Anybody know of such a beast?

Rich


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Christley echristley@att.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 20, 2020 4:23 pm
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design for High wing Aircraft

Does the fuel necessarily have to be returned?  What is the benefit of returning it?  Injectors can take 50lbs of pressure.  In fact, they make a better spray with the higher pressure, and atomize even better if the fuel is sprayed hot.  Many modern cars don't have a return.  As long as you keep the pumps  and the gas going to them cool, you won't get vapor lock. 

Keep the fuel pump below the injectors and behind the firewall.  It'll draw cool fuel and then pressurize it to keep it liquid until it is sprayed.  On shutdown, the fuel in the line firewall forward will get hot and vaporize, pushing liquid back to the pump.  But, as soon as the pump is flipped on the vapor gets compressed and liquified again for the rest of its time in the line.

I could be wrong. . .

On Monday, January 20, 2020, 10:43:07 AM EST, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Hi Bobby, yes Ed used a small (1 qt) can attached to the engine-side of the firewall, to accept main fuel IN, return fuel and parallel outputs to his fuel pumps.  This system would work regardless of wing arrangement but I'm not too sure how it performed at keeping LOW fuel temperatures.

My high-wing has a 2 gallon header tank on the cabin-side of the firewall, so I Tee'd my fuel return into one of its two vent lines that connect back to the wing tanks.  This is a gravity-fed system until it passes through the firewall to the pumps ... the vent lines assist in draining the tanks evenly.
Jeff

What is the best method for handling return fuel in a high wing? Fuel return to a small header tank sized to keep fuel temperatures low? I think Ed Anderson may have used a small header in his RV6.

Asking for a friend with an airplane addiction.

Bobby

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: January-20-20 6:01 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: flyrotary Digest #4865

        Rotary motors in aircraft Digest #4865

1) Re: Mufflers
2) Re: Mufflers

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