X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=BpPjPrf5 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=INjGaeh5HVJ35o6hF5scJA==:117 a=hG3epedDSl5lteqJAkiezQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=Jdjhy38mL1oA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=IUZCD9YwBrqfEFXXa4EA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=jThZ7_-JAAAA:8 a=NKPVJ2eMzAuaRIGQfBQA:9 a=qaWFR4D05S89-_Ml:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=NVbvhy2gKIdozzgvQOKv:22 From: "Edwared Anderson eanderson@carolina.rr.com" Received: from [47.43.26.135] (HELO p-impout001.msg.pkvw.co.charter.net) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 13406621 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:06:18 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=47.43.26.135; envelope-from=eanderson@carolina.rr.com Received: from BusinessPC ([66.26.208.242]) by cmsmtp with SMTP id taUyiIaR840aWtaUyihCsy; Mon, 20 Jan 2020 17:06:01 +0000 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TY3oSiYh c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=hG3epedDSl5lteqJAkiezQ==:117 a=hG3epedDSl5lteqJAkiezQ==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=IUZCD9YwBrqfEFXXa4EA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=jThZ7_-JAAAA:8 a=NKPVJ2eMzAuaRIGQfBQA:9 a=qaWFR4D05S89-_Ml:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=NVbvhy2gKIdozzgvQOKv:22 Message-ID: <270C0AA4139E498E9C47A5712C69AB8B@BusinessPC> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" References: In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design for High wing Aircraft Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2020 12:06:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0015_01D5CF89.FBA4FA20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 16.4.3528.331 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V16.4.3528.331 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfItKSnUQzd0++Vk40t1+yiiPLbcCn+E0fcMaemT0+KcekLQEdosYJo/pZC2bLaSmZdPJndnkJ9SSRlK6FTwXY/fTgHZ7XeqTFK3+zBchvk+vnSbwTEry iiA2hsjVS1EgTwNT46m0K0vZM4cotRt+3K9eNPZLiPeB6iYUPomQPUf+SssA/n8tk33Kh3VxnlK3Iw== This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01D5CF89.FBA4FA20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Charlie is correct. flew many years with a 1 pint header tank forward of = FW. My rationale was that the fuel got consumed rapidly enough that the = header tank always had cool fuel from tanks flowing into it. That said = - I did have it enclosed in a fiberglass box with air tubes running to = it for cooling. Also had the low pressure =E2=80=9Cprime=E2=80=9D pump = adding pressure to it whenever taking off or landing. I think the 4-6 = psi provided by the low pressure pump had a lot to do with it never = causing a problem. Once at cruise the fuel consumption and cooling = effect was such I did not consider it any risk. In my opinion, take off = on a hot day is the crucial test, once with plenty of airspeed the = cooling problem diminishes considerably. Slow and high power on a hot = day is the crucial regime in my opinion. I always thought that having as large header tank had its own risk. = Yes, it might take a long time to heat up that amount of fuel, but then = once heated you are stuck with a lot of hot fuel in a larger say 2 = gallon header. I recall one unfortunate fatal accident where in my = opinion I think the large header tank contributed. =20 As we all know fire and fuel are essential ingredients to keep that = hummmm up front going. So stay smart on those decisions. Ed From: mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net=20 Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 11:20 AM To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20 Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design for High wing Aircraft The holy grail is a returnless system, to finish out the automotive = style injection. :-) Ed did use a very small header tank; logic was that the recirculated = fuel never stayed in the tank long enough to begin to heat up. But he = didn't vent the header back to either main tank. I always thought that = the unvented header was going to be the cause of his next 'glider' = flight. If you add a vent line back to the main tank, it'll work safely. = (My BD4 had a similar system, but for a different purpose; the BD main = tanks had a tendency to unport in uncoordinated flight.) There are other options, too. We can talk. On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 7:58 AM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net = wrote: What is the best method for handling return fuel in a high wing? Fuel = return to a small header tank sized to keep fuel temperatures low? I = think Ed Anderson may have used a small header in his RV6. Asking for a friend with an airplane addiction. Bobby Disclaimer The information contained in this communication from the sender is = confidential. It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others = authorized to receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby = notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in = relation of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited and = may be unlawful. This email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been = automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in Software as a = Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more useful place for = your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, archiving and = compliance. To find out more Click Here. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01D5CF89.FBA4FA20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Charlie is correct. flew many years with a 1 pint header tank = forward of=20 FW.  My rationale was that the fuel got consumed rapidly enough = that the=20 header tank always had cool fuel from tanks flowing into it.  That = said - I=20 did have it enclosed in a fiberglass box with air tubes running to it = for=20 cooling.  Also had the low pressure =E2=80=9Cprime=E2=80=9D pump = adding pressure to it=20 whenever taking off or landing.  I think the 4-6 psi provided by = the low=20 pressure pump had a lot to do with it never causing a problem.  = Once at=20 cruise the fuel consumption and cooling effect was such I did not = consider it=20 any risk. In my opinion, take off on a hot day is the crucial test, once = with=20 plenty of airspeed the cooling problem diminishes considerably.  = Slow and=20 high power on a hot day is the crucial regime in my opinion.
 
I always thought that having as large header tank had its own = risk. =20 Yes, it might take a long time to heat up that amount of fuel, but then = once=20 heated you are stuck with a lot of hot fuel in a larger say 2 gallon=20 header.  I recall one unfortunate fatal accident where in my = opinion I=20 think the large header tank contributed. 
 
As we all know fire and fuel are essential ingredients to keep that = hummmm=20 up front going.  So stay smart on those decisions.
 
Ed
 
 
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2020 11:20 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Fuel System Design for High wing=20 Aircraft
The holy grail is = a returnless=20 system, to finish out the automotive style injection. :-)
 
Ed did use a very = small header=20 tank; logic was that the recirculated fuel never stayed in the tank long = enough=20 to begin to heat up. But he didn't vent the header back to either main = tank. I=20 always thought that the unvented header was going to be the cause of his = next=20 'glider' flight. If you add a vent line back to the main tank, it'll = work=20 safely. (My BD4 had a similar system, but for a different purpose; the = BD main=20 tanks had a tendency to unport in uncoordinated flight.)
 
There are other = options, too.=20 We can talk.
 
On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 7:58 AM Bobby = J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net = <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

What is the best method for handling return fuel = in a high=20 wing? Fuel return to a small header tank sized to keep fuel = temperatures low?=20 I think Ed Anderson may have used a small header in his = RV6.

 

Asking for a friend with an airplane=20 addiction.

 

Bobby



Disclaimer

The=20 information contained in this communication from the sender is = confidential.=20 It is intended solely for use by the recipient and others authorized = to=20 receive it. If you are not the recipient, you are hereby notified that = any=20 disclosure, copying, distribution or taking action in relation of the = contents=20 of this information is strictly prohibited and may be = unlawful.

This=20 email has been scanned for viruses and malware, and may have been=20 automatically archived by Mimecast Ltd, an innovator in = Software as a=20 Service (SaaS) for business. Providing a safer and more = useful=20 place for your human generated data. Specializing in; Security, = archiving and=20 compliance. To find out more Click=20 Here.

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