From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on EMI problem.
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2020 13:45:18 +0800
References: <list-13394738@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-13394738@logan.com>
Message-Id: <07212206-4119-4AB0-BAE6-87B681EC6030@gmail.com>

Hi Finn

I understood they were Tracy=E2=80=99s recommendation for EMI after a =
number of people had problems on controller A.
I=E2=80=99m going to remove them and use the ferrites on all wiring =
entering the EC2 and Dynon.

Steve


> On 16 Jan 2020, at 10:50 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> Not sure what an autopilot panel is, but did you disturb any wiring, =
grounds, etc?
>=20
> Created a ground loop?
>=20
> Any way you could (easily) restore things to the way they were -- just =
for testing purposes?
>=20
> I just had a thought on the caps on the MAO sensors. I wonder if the =
purpose of those is not for EMI suppression, but rather to smooth out =
any pressure pulses from intake ports opening/closing (and/or RAM air =
pulses from prop). I remember seeing a vacuum filter in the line from =
the manifold to the EC in Tracy's RV-4.
>=20
> Finn
>=20
> On 1/15/2020 5:32 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>> The symptoms in the EC2 and EFIS began after installing a couple of =
new Auto Pilot panels.
>> Steve
>>=20
>>> On 16 Jan 2020, at 4:47 am, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> A ground issue somewhere. At battery, ground buss, ground strap to =
engine, ...
>>> Corrosion or a loose bolt/nut.
>>>=20
>>> Just guessing. But if it used to work and no changes were made =
before the symptoms appeared...
>>>=20
>>> Yes, I know, easy to second guess the approach of someone else. :-)
>>>=20
>>> Finn
>>>=20
>>> On 1/15/2020 10:00 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Hi Bobby
>>>>=20
>>>> I had no symptoms in the engine on tx until the last few weeks and =
only on controller A.
>>>> It misses as the mixture goes very lean.
>>>> In looking at the engine miss I realised the vertical speed was =
jumping on tx.
>>>> Not sure what brought about the change that started the symptoms.
>>>>=20
>>>> Steve
>>>>=20
>>>>> On 15 Jan 2020, at 10:33 pm, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>  I don=E2=80=99t recall if you are just seeing odd instrument =
readings or actual engine changes when you key the mic. At idle and =
ground ops I could almost kill my engine when transmitting on an SL30. =
The capacitors eliminated 90% of that problem. When I swapped the SL30 =
for a 430W it improved a little more.
>>>>>  Bobby
>>>>>      From: Rotary motors in aircraft =
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2020 8:06 AM
>>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Update on EMI problem.
>>>>>  Hi Finn
>>>>>=20
>>>>> I only went for them as I understood others had suffered a similar =
symptom and this was Tracy=E2=80=99s recommended fix.
>>>>> I=E2=80=99ve got more ferrites coming and I=E2=80=99ll be putting =
these on all inputs to the EC2 and ADHARS and at the feed point of the =
antenna.
>>>>> I=E2=80=99ll feedback what I discover.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 15 Jan 2020, at 9:02 pm, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Did you trace the circuit? Any chance there's already caps on the =
board on your version of the EC2?
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Again, I don't see the need for the caps. Especially because your =
problem was only with controller A.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> I would start with temp input or serial input.
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> Finn
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On 1/14/2020 11:23 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
wrote:
>>>>>>> A frustrating few hours
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I got down to the hanger this morning to look into the EMI in =
both the engine controller and EFIS.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> First thing I did was reroute the radio coax so that instead of =
being in close proximity to many cables down the centre of the aeroplane =
instead down the very right hand side.
>>>>>>> This increased the distance to various wire looms by ~450mm.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Prior to this change the symptom outside the hangar was from =
memory about a 300ft/min vertical speed on tx in the Skyview EFIS.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> First test with radio tx after the reroute of coax inside the =
hangar yielded a "4 times worse" symptom in the EFIS! ~1300ft/min =
reading on tx.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I then tried the test outside and away from the metal hangar by =
10m and the symptom was reduced to ~600ft/min and increase in symptoms =
of about 100% on original problem.
>>>>>>> I then applied a clamp on ferrite to the cable loom entering the =
ADHARS unit from where the symptom originates.
>>>>>>> On tx outside the hangar again the symptoms are far reduced by =
over 1/2.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> So if I had left the radio coax where it was, the ferrite may =
have fixed the problem in the EFIS.
>>>>>>> I have more ferrites on order and they appear to be very =
effective, so will use these to attenuate the RF entering the various =
pieces of equipment.
>>>>>>> EMI trouble shooting is indeed a black art!!
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I also removed the Engine Control unit and soldered 0.1uF =
ceramics across the outputs to earth of the MAP sensors of both A and B =
computers as specified by Tracy.
>>>>>>> On reinstalling the Engine Control unit I was not able to start =
the engine!
>>>>>>> It would fire but not run on either controller.
>>>>>>> So spark and fuel are present, but not to remain running.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> So the mod appears to have messed up the MAP sensing.
>>>>>>> My initial thought was that the caps were actually resistors =
packaged wrongly but they measure open circuit.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> So the few hours of mods and testing has been exceedingly =
frustrating, going backwards at every turn except for the 1 ferrite =
showing itself to be very effective.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> I=E2=80=99m hoping my next outing will be very much more =
fruitful.
>>>>>>> In the mean time I=E2=80=99ll ponder what could possibly cause =
both Computers in the Engine Controller to be u/s.
>>>>>>> If I cannot discover my deliberate mistake. I=E2=80=99ll remove =
the caps and retest the Controller on Friday.
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>> Steve
>>>>>>>=20
>>>>>>>=20
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