X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=eI5tc0h1 c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=TZhjYf1UloEKsOc6l8iarw==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=MeAgGD-zjQ4A:10 a=ZPv60q_EFhsA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=_IkPUOuQwjS98PioTsQA:9 a=I_NSeCNvHLUB1GeR:21 a=Z2QLZNJvWmd7biGX:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=xPyZ54XvAAAA:8 a=lYVVmkPm8OvI427n:21 a=7X-3xy6NcpaEyQHy:21 a=xqYJ95BX0UgfUPOa:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=LQCduUwlY3eUW_MavTj7:22 a=pHzHmUro8NiASowvMSCR:22 a=nt3jZW36AmriUCFCBwmW:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic312-22.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.128.84] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 13216480 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 23 Nov 2019 23:54:09 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.128.84; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1574571232; bh=WP1n6+esdt+oUWvxxgyauR9HoDTAffzYOTwl3pWXrLY=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=YKC/8di83+aPbRpWBmGbjHtL+kQ+Md03KQO2JWyAfySMa4ZAjVbdtxeAAB7qaCICYvgLspXaFuNbuvuE5LkxLDDDxJyVcFnmBcNTEhKzelYAQc2c+12aFbt8FEyH6/fbPmYXQA7dVvH+SnSh1hhTGe0mPUaoXIf4Fl7pqhoERQxR0DtlW1YSTRKPDB/dkndakRuCFRXdPOQmuXyTNQcK0ic8QPSY/4aUXOlf0yrnjfByNP8ScblFBGSV7JU2xdWuMXNTOOC3m66TrYWnFT/d/PgRHC5mClxPO2lz1FINKu1G00YVcRho0ZiawPSwxDo3p0DQ1okH5JlD9aacwbj3Fg== X-YMail-OSG: _17WmZsVM1nr2qCgcFhxLvmF_Jc512b3eoeQVxRjZISu0OaEq5fy0QHCujqV6i8 JDVWGQnvlTzLwjYo9skUZYypRIue63XIQwtTOWaLdfEUihfyKX1dvSt.ps58v6lF4YCCwNMJIj.o wP3bHkmH5dJVZLnUelznGbhZCK9tKiW2aDUfRdJ3ZkXrDLKLQfmORJRfxNcgEXs624hfTgacEdOQ U.YDCOkxJ_eGaN5uYL97Y3qz4hfBkileOTVtwHOQ4MTPJTJ2xEFw6wQQcMGgugpXX6w6QJjuWAcG ggpD_wgLGClrJlCUhnKxnAGlA7kVyUw6HlgGbPuYzYgVE4daepAyR2m2pRGFyXJH5og.vCS9xZ4W o2VbutcIroybOVO31gQ_d313Z2ye3aaEYa6xpXBEc76j_N5Gqrjbt.sWgvCzkHflGlYUz2E_69yF U4MT_QRSsMNtfEK3VMLWSovURqYMdBDeP69OlEkNJpHx9sp3C30mmSGfdtcMqUsi4FfP7rYYOO5D _KatWqIUU4IyaZsjt3xFii_D2uVMjwZBrTiw86xjxm6jOR3bNAaYiT_d.dimBDhlzcO3bl3frmaI UCuejzAeI5OpPi6kOTixFP.Z9DZL.QsHl2Ud0JVjMclMknLNzA99CJ1W0neqfFDJMGzenMziANt4 oevPT55pSj1z38sAluFkp5gUJk00k94M4c.I47x.XNRnUoIs758fzzcru7hsiB4jlZ9UEqrFSLow EidqgVshZlulSlMAYaUVsdYOr2eZ9v_59YpT9_F9BQKC_mI2osLaZeyUo6ffaemTle5MvZo4WgfA 2XOTJAsHsEHEujJsj8rSxOVKIcoTF84kBOOn__JEMwNV9hLi9Wea0yowVz5yPczlv8TMO46oNdNn 5hPG_rrmL.P4GY5kBpUzrhYLz1YuH5Q3aXhJ8Blbj8QVQ2K6OUxRcCVWiuEOghQiU.1BTMva8A.A Apprpi80L1AMcCo61YtkfASWubO5__eKygo.5JFPKzcqtQUgAvDWQ62qW8po88W73vyDut.QXzj1 cUqxpulgZxTL8ngAbc.e87wc_liVpIPN5ay_KkUxejCRUPoM03sJU7edms_78f35zr5NU5pH6xnD lhgrrb43UTBNixIHFse43_glopujmqzpvEQWgCC9W2cNFwSMVqVSySBYfncniEprJa73mlCmoxuy Rc7NrqRcJzPTVckEYv4mLt8jpq36FoQYjwNA4.S4QzVaAGLZM2yeZ0ynBocP7WvBPGRc_4TiR0N2 0cRBB7yozxKW3eU.73Hmyc5CyO0ohh4pTLreUnwiPKojGe3PXGjKRHtdfHHbL2c36XQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic312.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 Nov 2019 04:53:52 +0000 Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2019 04:53:51 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1171040652.3003609.1574571231088@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mufflers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3003608_31162898.1574571231086" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.14728 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5.7 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 15010 ------=_Part_3003608_31162898.1574571231086 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry, I was referring to the earlier post of the pencil drawing of the per= f tube with the down tube at the front rather than the rear of the muffler.= The Borla was the same except huge and the 4 inch central perf tube was su= rrounded by six small perf tubes instead of any filler like fiberglass or L= ava rock. Unaffected by heat. Lasted the last 10 years of racing. About 30 = pounds. 4 inch central tube and you can see all the way through it. No baff= les or obstructions. It was still in the car when sold a few years back. La= ter we shortened the right sideinstallation and rather than exit the rear o= f the car for left side sound equipment the exit was on the right side with= a 90 degree down turn. That worked well until the 103 Db rules came out. T= hen we made it a straight open 4" tube with a rolled back end ring to reduc= e injured shins. Exhaust exited just ahead of the rear wheel.Right side sou= nd was all the way out the back with a 90 degree bend pointing to the left.= =C2=A0=20 Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 11/23/2019 3:50:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net writes: Lynn, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The design seems to have been lost??=C2=A0 Can = you repost please? Neil. On 11/20/2019 10:29 AM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: This is a design that I think will be as close as any for muffling. I would= keep the outlet to the rear end.Years ago we took a new racer to Sebring f= or a first outing. The muffler was one of those big suit case looking thing= s. It did work but the muffler was inside the car because of ground clearan= ce. It overheated the driver. So as we went through the weekend were wrappe= d house insulation around that muffler. Then the muffler began swelling up = and muffling less. Also the engine was popping about 3/4 of the straightawa= y. Another Rotary racer took pity on us beginners and demoed how our float = bowl was totally empty by half track.=C2=A0 The needle seat was then meteri= ng the fuel and that was not nearly enough.We changed our fuel pumps to ser= ies connection. That had us out of the tuning problem but still too close t= o best power. The muffler swelled up so as to look like a giant pillow. The= insulation melted. The internal pieces of muffler piled up in front of the muffler outlet and the driver pitted wi= th about 20 HP to race on. We retired to Naples Florida. Found a man with a= drill press. Bought=C2=A0 4" steel tube at NAPA and a house jack at Lowes.= I built a muffler similar to this drawing. But straight through like a gla= ss pack. Worked great. The next day we went to the false grid with high hop= es. The car was stuck in first gear. We didn't start after towing to Florid= a from Ohio. I now live in Florida in winter. So we learned a lot. The muff= ler outlet must be big enough to allow any interior piece to fly off into s= pace should it come loose.=C2=A0 Only stainless no carbon steel. Bigger hol= es near the front of the perforated=C2=A0 tub. this allows supersonic high = pressure gas to get outside the tube and reenter through the smaller holes = and slow the shock wave a bit. This is similar to the Mazda race muffler, b= ut that thing is short and fat. Designed to fit under the rear bumper of an= RX-2 or RX-3. That has an empty chamber in front of a perf tube style muff= ler, but there is no connection through that chamber. So, only sub sonic ga= s needs be dealt with. Those mufflers failed by being beat to death and fal= ling off of the tail pipe. Another note: the most disagreeable part of the = noise is in the center of the flow. I put a round piece of 1/4 steel in the= center of a 4" tube and it did help. We had a 4" 90 degree tail piece. We = could turn left or right. So as to aim it away from the sound equipment at = each track. The Generation II (wedge shaped body) had a insert in the liner= that helped very much on sound. Find one and see if it can be installed in= the later housing.=C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover In a message dated 11/19/2019 10:36:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: Here is the picture from Andrew's email.=C2=A0 My exhaust is stupid loud. I've tried a few things which didn't work. Getti= ng noise complaints around the airport while testing. Just reading this Gary Schwarz's link, looks promising. Andrew, did you fit= yours inside the cowl? I'm surprised 5mm endplates are holding up. - Matt Boiteau On 2019-11-19 12:57:36 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: Kelly, I would if I had some, really did not expect it to work as I deviate= d from the design a bit. Will be back at airport on weekend to take photo, = too late for construction photo. But nothing to it. I read about the idea by Gary Schwarz in this thread, post #7 , post #58 fo= r his testing and post #142 sums up his findings.Someone on here may know h= im as he was doing it for a rotary. Mine is much shorter than his drawing b= elow due to space constraints but the theory works.edit: Ahh!!! deleted his= picture as too big to post. it is in his post #7 mentioned above though.An= drew -- Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html ------=_Part_3003608_31162898.1574571231086 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, I was referring to the earlier post of the pen= cil drawing of the perf tube with the down tube at the front rather than th= e rear of the muffler. The Borla was the same except huge and the 4 inch ce= ntral perf tube was surrounded by six small perf tubes instead of any fille= r like fiberglass or Lava rock. Unaffected by heat. Lasted the last 10 year= s of racing. About 30 pounds. 4 inch central tube and you can see all the w= ay through it. No baffles or obstructions. It was still in the car when sol= d a few years back. Later we shortened the right side
installation and rather than exit the rear of the car= for left side sound equipment the exit was on the right side with a 90 deg= ree down turn. That worked well until the 103 Db rules came out. Then we ma= de it a straight open 4" tube with a rolled back end ring to reduce injured= shins. Exhaust exited just ahead of the rear wheel.
Right side sound was all the way out the back with a = 90 degree bend pointing to the left. 

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 11/23/2019 3:50:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net writes:

Lynn,

            =       The design seems to have been lost??  C= an you repost please?

Neil.

On 11/20/2019 10:29 AM, lehanov= er lehanover@aol.co= m wrote:
This is a design that I think will be as close as any= for muffling. I would keep the outlet to the rear end.
Years ago we took a new racer to Sebring for a first = outing. The muffler was one of those big suit case looking things. It did w= ork but the muffler was inside the car because of ground clearance. It over= heated the driver. So as we went through the weekend were wrapped house ins= ulation around that muffler. Then the muffler began swelling up and mufflin= g less. Also the engine was popping about 3/4 of the straightaway. Another = Rotary racer took pity on us beginners and demoed how our float bowl was to= tally empty by half track.  The needle seat was then metering the fuel= and that was not nearly enough.
We changed our fuel pumps to series connection. That = had us out of the tuning problem but still too close to best power. The muf= fler swelled up so as to look like a giant pillow. The insulation melted. T= he internal pieces
of muffler piled up in front of the muffler outlet an= d the driver pitted with about 20 HP to race on. We retired to Naples Flori= da. Found a man with a drill press. Bought  4" steel tube at NAPA and = a house jack at Lowes. I built a muffler similar to this drawing. But strai= ght through like a glass pack. Worked great. The next day we went to the fa= lse grid with high hopes. The car was stuck in first gear. We didn't start = after towing to Florida from Ohio. I now live in Florida in winter. So we l= earned a lot. The muffler outlet must be big enough to allow any interior p= iece to fly off into space should it come loose.  Only stainless no ca= rbon steel. Bigger holes near the front of the perforated  tub. this a= llows supersonic high pressure gas to get outside the tube and reenter thro= ugh the smaller holes and slow the shock wave a bit. This is similar to the= Mazda race muffler, but that thing is short and fat. Designed to fit under= the rear bumper of an RX-2 or RX-3. That has an empty chamber in front of = a perf tube style muffler, but there is no connection through that chamber.= So, only sub sonic gas needs be dealt with. Those mufflers failed by being= beat to death and falling off of the tail pipe. Another note: the most dis= agreeable part of the noise is in the center of the flow. I put a round pie= ce of 1/4 steel in the center of a 4" tube and it did help. We had a 4" 90 = degree tail piece. We could turn left or right. So as to aim it away from t= he sound equipment at each track. The Generation II (wedge shaped body) had= a insert in the liner that helped very much on sound. Find one and see if = it can be installed in the later housing. 

Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 11/19/2019 10:36:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancair= online.net writes:

Here is the picture from Andrew's email= . 

My exhaust is stupid loud. I've tried a few things which didn't work. = Getting noise complaints around the airport while testing.

Just reading this Gary Schwarz's link, looks promising. Andrew, did yo= u fit yours inside the cowl? I'm surprised 5mm endplates are holding up.

- Matt Boiteau

On 2019-11-19 12:57:36 AM, A= ndrew Martin a= ndrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Kelly, I would if I had some, really did not expect it to work as I de= viated from the design a bit. Will be back at airport on weekend to take ph= oto, too late for construction photo. But nothing to it.

I read about the idea by Gary Schwarz in this thread, post #7 , post #58 for his testing = and post #142 sums up his findings.
Someone on here may know him as he was doing it for a rotary. Mine is = much shorter than his drawing below due to space constraints but the theory= works.
edit: Ahh!!! deleted his picture as too big to post. it is in his post= #7 mentioned above though.
Andrew

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