X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=H+OlPNQi c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=G2TurPKJgwUaKOYoOgSX4A==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=oSMvVwY2MYMA:10 a=MeAgGD-zjQ4A:10 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=xPyZ54XvAAAA:8 a=meJbv3C4AAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=OK2wuOQHGs-enwbNY9gA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=oOz5yF6qyDwA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=6bhEZnUc8lC-59X7BukA:9 a=i3kfllo_uSdEgIRQ:21 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=LQCduUwlY3eUW_MavTj7:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com" Received: from mail-qk1-f171.google.com ([209.85.222.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.14) with ESMTPS id 13197663 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 11:22:59 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.222.171; envelope-from=wdleonard@gmail.com Received: by mail-qk1-f171.google.com with SMTP id h15so238451qka.13 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 08:23:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=3uct62Gww9KgTu3Xy1TNyXjZRaoqICTijqIELlv1nQc=; b=tXErjLJd2/yX1GpSQbAcg+yb8wZQuB7ywS9Cleu13bYSL6DBAsbrH7YIA9uMtQ5cGP wGS/Ty1vpQtURh68D2f4TnwozeAYGWvpwhQ/gKcM7Xh0syab3BR/Lf7akUZ6q/MSrp4P RTQoANgyI7+1qS1p8VFdPFDO9X0nNpw1YmMsjn1gS9stdEtonL5FQarjNADIHmQJB2Ar JAR6MWl4hi07IuBpaXIydOdyV5ZGnwv1Z4rMXXM5Ugsrxl0UAvHT7GYhCVb9zo3nOxlG 29IZY7DCJFvG1a50KrexqLOqd2CGXa0CKDdTKIXSjfTD2HiEMx55HvHh44ZPznXbeT/A F8Bg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=3uct62Gww9KgTu3Xy1TNyXjZRaoqICTijqIELlv1nQc=; b=IynrvxnIvpsmb8Z1mWsWPYcTg1FdIsnVqkEX5asUyTgucHRJGDkJ80K7bJcfiHKjGd GxUMyZn14RJHkc0/qZnTytc484rXLz3hpVND512Jke3VgwnUuR6746zJBRzcQI+Y+Ijx HbDKKLAk0J996dXWIwEagoqK5Xqow8rlWQZhJXLjjA3I9l9a2B8oYYu1nYzBv6+1XXUE kerEOMr1tPatL9+ebww35Edj7iZVfEjD/fu4isfZqWG5ygp9twfsz0qIRqMv1EY8I1IH TWWRMjKI9y1tWoZloWO3cSnBWwh8tXyNtIjMMvCVHNexvm8/2QMtVq7EoDWJxWAAeFkN bTEw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWHSxjFi9S0EhNT0ZJqSlaGMXcKcYxac+axiZs7f3YC8bO2gTS1 VCIaq1nxxiYWJNp753BETv+T/UPdnnOLx11NF3BhU0ZP X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzZM3KphVVVh0M7WpMucN9PEV+RcmeYfr3XI6r7ONN6HxHmsVSxb/0W2ryoNR8eZZPGIfaxkJo1rxVGC4LE8ic= X-Received: by 2002:ae9:f00b:: with SMTP id l11mr3115832qkg.141.1574266962163; Wed, 20 Nov 2019 08:22:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2019 08:22:34 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Mufflers To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000fbb940597c99768" --0000000000000fbb940597c99768 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Marcus, I am really glad you brought up the Mistral incident, as I have been meaning to mention it too. For what it's worth, my experience with mufflers confirms what many other have said. The exhaust environment in rotary aircraft is very extreme and component failure can be catastrophic. I have tried several types of high end packing, and nothing survives more than a few hours. 300 series stainless tolerates the heat, but any welds on thin stainless have limited life. I would be very suspicious of anything with complex innards like the Aero Turbine 2525. Doing what Jeff Whaley did by adding perforations should be a must-do in my opinion. Dave Leonard On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 5:59 AM Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Just remember the Mistral muffler event. The muffler caused the Piper > Arrow (?) with their rotary to crash after the internals blocked the > outlet and led to power loss. It may have partially led to their withdraw= al > from the engine/PSRU market. To all our loss. > M > > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 20, 2019, at 12:28 AM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > =EF=BB=BF > This is the Aero Exhaust 2525XL diagram. I have one, but left it in > Canada. Will bring it back with me in Jan to try at taming the exhaust > again. > > > > - Matt Boiteau > > On 2019-11-19 3:23:50 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 18, 2019 at 11:57 PM Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> >> Kelly, I would if I had some, really did not expect it to work as I >> deviated from the design a bit. Will be back at airport on weekend to ta= ke >> photo, too late for construction photo. But nothing to it. >> >> I read about the idea by Gary Schwarz in this thread >> , >> post #7 , post #58 for his testing and post #142 sums up his findings. >> Someone on here may know him as he was doing it for a rotary. Mine is >> much shorter than his drawing below due to space constraints but the the= ory >> works. >> edit: Ahh!!! deleted his picture as too big to post. it is in his post #= 7 >> mentioned above though. >> Andrew >> >> That looks a lot like a simplified version (one less turn) of a standard > automotive muffler. > https://auto.howstuffworks.com/muffler3.htm > The Aeroturbine tries to achieve similar effect (without the flow > reversals) by using venturi effect to suck part of the exhaust around and > then back into the central tube. > > Charlie > > > > <2525.JPG> > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > --0000000000000fbb940597c99768 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Marcus,
I am really glad you brought up the Mistral in= cident, as I have been meaning to mention=C2=A0it too.=C2=A0 For what it= 9;s worth, my experience with mufflers confirms what many other have said.= =C2=A0 The exhaust environment in rotary aircraft is very extreme=C2=A0and = component=C2=A0 failure can be catastrophic.=C2=A0 I have tried several typ= es of high end packing, and nothing survives more than a few hours.=C2=A0 3= 00 series stainless tolerates the heat, but any welds on thin stainless hav= e limited life.=C2=A0 I would be very suspicious of anything with complex i= nnards like the Aero Turbine 2525.=C2=A0 Doing what Jeff Whaley did by addi= ng perforations should be a must-do in my opinion.

Dave Leonard

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 5:59 AM Marcus Wiese cardmarc@charter.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
= Just remember the Mistral muffler event. The muffler caused the Piper Arrow= =C2=A0(?) with their rotary to crash after the internals blocked the outle= t and led to power loss. It may have partially led to their withdrawal from= the engine/PSRU market. To all our loss.
M

Sen= t from my iPad

On Nov 2= 0, 2019, at 12:28 AM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:

=EF=BB=BF
This is the Aero Exhaust 2525XL diagram. I have one, but left it in Canada= . Will bring it back with me in Jan to try at taming the exhaust again.



- Matt Boit= eau

On 2019-11-19 3:23:50 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:




= Kelly, I would if I had some, really did not expect it to work as I deviate= d from the design a bit. Will be back at airport on weekend to take photo, = too late for construction photo. But nothing to it.

I read about the idea by Gary Schwarz in this thread, post #7 , post #58 for his testing and post #142 su= ms up his findings.
Someone on here may know him= as he was doing it for a rotary. Mine is much shorter than his drawing bel= ow due to space constraints but the theory works.
edit: Ahh!!! deleted his picture as too big to post. it is in his p= ost #7 mentioned above though.
Andrew
=

That looks= a lot like a simplified version (one less turn) of a standard automotive m= uffler.
The Aeroturbine tries t= o achieve similar effect (without the flow reversals) by using venturi effe= ct to suck part of the exhaust around and then back into the central tube.<= /div>

Charlie

=C2=A0
=
<2525.JPG>
--
Homepage: =C2=A0http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive a= nd UnSub: =C2=A0=C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/= flyrotary/List.html
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