X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PNVxBsiC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=wgWIERYvTl7iGN6jnMCulQ==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=FmdZ9Uzk2mMA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=kzSpMZFrd18wf4XpRX8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=AwmVofR1enwHXLR2Tu8A:9 a=G3iw9DalvMs-s_W4:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f181.google.com ([209.85.214.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12843017 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 13 Aug 2019 02:47:57 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.181; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f181.google.com with SMTP id y8so6765236plr.12 for ; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 23:47:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=WGWw01XZSqxAJbKpoJv9jlxC5Ry6PcDRZsdWjunlOQA=; b=uSowqOksfi/Z5r51ZIjtKBi0iJi9ekWhfH4KyrxCDiCw4ZT6UmTpC9rYbkAzkrVROG Rk4ocBLx9WkNHHvzvV0isUW4nutprPvzQiadt5U9vbo6s5L0r1oOX8X55OV7HOXrjEtg OwpmLcEX2oqtu7ZulCf2uaRx0PFwKGCffcwsWXr7c2YAVbPZ7Li3TZFzKx4wGLh79Gg5 5AnJivDrIeaH6jqILc0BqR/9BMtekJhpU+IFoolKD2w0E0xlbFdvC7cjT3fiVt/ypnxv 4a2pa7KzyK9uHYLoQgCTDwMRQ6Y7xr8xh9zm+h7wDQ3QcC1BvcfPJWhOXetwZBPXZiDt Qx6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=WGWw01XZSqxAJbKpoJv9jlxC5Ry6PcDRZsdWjunlOQA=; b=ifNEbcxr68KZQlfS+G0XWtihVaRreE9XX0E3hc6135q0H7YAMRq2ddS3qGvt+GXXvm hCKcJUPcJtwpZbAN19Jt27g5cn39IPL2KNmgpEeraAGEhUDxIGLSRiyCcCAt0bubaCIs Q10boRB9aGHZK6CYZOnLq60qrmE/rE0ZtQihhlBtKlytpTTmuJ++YEyDfy3coMuYAuf1 FMpO9iyfJX8abnZGnC8cxYVIZHgAcC8POWgF8FROfRU0014CoX3rhUoDweZkcmv3JL/I bRxcH2BL4N4Y41eIdqriYsJfJwbJ6RcAgGs/HjlQkbWydBotcI/hzIGltpgtf4S0Dsz8 kGUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVwCN4frG1L4XFtp/TwTznSbtPISir0Mlu1PjlKe/7GxVVSucwD /w4LhwE+ZpVscxz930Uvopb8Eiqa X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqziQzsixyrJlTebBP5h9aWEeuL7msh7AWK52zpzz/IidKtCyHeN9ZILZG8PgiP3Y46UNdrVrA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:9897:: with SMTP id s23mr36055041plp.47.1565678860398; Mon, 12 Aug 2019 23:47:40 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.106] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p5sm6862707pfg.184.2019.08.12.23.47.38 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Aug 2019 23:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: thermocouple To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <6213df12-8a43-ea9c-183a-86f273d5bbc6@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:47:35 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F211ED8536A16FC182F8125C" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F211ED8536A16FC182F8125C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lynn,                  No we have to reset the pump manually as the usual cause is blockages in the suction.  They have to be removed and then reset.  The temp rise is in the pump and the motor is always fine after it has cooked the pump as usual. Thanks,  Neil. On 8/13/2019 3:08 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: > Will you reset the pump controls after each shut-down (overheat) or do > you want to restart on cool-down? > > Perhaps you would like a restart only when the pump is needed. If your > pump is a centrifugal and the load fluid will flow through it you can > have a sail switch to restart the pump. A pressure switch on the exit > will keep it running until the sail switch drops out for lack of flow. > Or a Klicks-on shuts it off. All of this requires a three phase relay. > > Most 3 phase motors have a 30 to 60 degree temp rise when running. > That would be 60 degrees above ambient temp and is normal for that > pump motor. See data plate. > > A Klickson will open at or near the specified temp but will reset just > below that temp. Various types will allow > different delay times. The pumps are cooled by ambient air and the > media being pumped. > > An engineer at the motor builder can send you a drawing of a typical > control circuit, or even supply one. > > Using a pump overheat to trip the circuit seems to me to shorten pump > life. > > But, I could be completely wrong.   Lynn E. Hanover > > In a message dated 8/12/2019 10:37:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > Gents,  Nothing to do with flying, but you may be able to assist.  I > have numerous trash pumps that need a thermocouple linked to a 3 > Phase > cutout.  Yes I can buy a stock unit for over $3000 each which to > me is > as hot as the pump can get.  All I need is a switch that will cut out > the pump (power) when it overheats due to dry running.  If it doesn't > the pump then self destructs and $6000 later I am ready to go again. > I can however get replacement pumps from china for $500 but > without the > cutout. > > So simple heat sensor switch that will go open at preset temp high > setting, say 90 - 100 degrees  C .  Possibly single phase to > disconect 3 > phase contactor.  Suggestions??> > > Neil. > --------------F211ED8536A16FC182F8125C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Lynn,

                 No we have to reset the pump manually as the usual cause is blockages in the suction.  They have to be removed and then reset.  The temp rise is in the pump and the motor is always fine after it has cooked the pump as usual.

Thanks,  Neil.

On 8/13/2019 3:08 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
Will you reset the pump controls after each shut-down (overheat) or do you want to restart on cool-down?

Perhaps you would like a restart only when the pump is needed. If your pump is a centrifugal and the load fluid will flow through it you can have a sail switch to restart the pump. A pressure switch on the exit will keep it running until the sail switch drops out for lack of flow. Or a Klicks-on shuts it off. All of this requires a three phase relay.

Most 3 phase motors  have a 30 to 60 degree temp rise when running. That would be 60 degrees above ambient temp and is normal for that pump motor. See data plate.

A Klickson will open at or near the specified temp but will reset just below that temp. Various types will allow
different delay times. The pumps are cooled by ambient air and the media being pumped.

An engineer at the motor builder can send you a drawing of a typical control circuit, or even supply one.

Using a pump overheat to trip the circuit seems to me to shorten pump life.

But, I could be completely wrong.   Lynn E. Hanover

In a message dated 8/12/2019 10:37:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Gents,  Nothing to do with flying, but you may be able to assist.  I
have numerous trash pumps that need a thermocouple linked to a 3 Phase
cutout.  Yes I can buy a stock unit for over $3000 each which to me is
as hot as the pump can get.  All I need is a switch that will cut out
the pump (power) when it overheats due to dry running.  If it doesn't
the pump then self destructs and $6000 later I am ready to go again.   
I can however get replacement pumps from china for $500 but without the
cutout.

So simple heat sensor switch that will go open at preset temp high
setting, say 90 - 100 degrees  C .  Possibly single phase to disconect 3
phase contactor.  Suggestions??>

Neil.
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