From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: Re: [FlyRotary] timing on renesis engines
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 16:10:26 +0800
References: <list-12746546@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-12746546@logan.com>
Message-Id: <E64A816F-BC93-4622-A93D-D4A454C3F084@gmail.com>

Hi Fin

The coil trigger will come direct from the processor outputs I expect.=20=

So your right, the coils will see whatever the bus is, whatever the =
alternator is doing.

Steve

> On 9 Jul 2019, at 10:52 pm, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
> Disregard. Those drivers are most likely for the injectors. Don't have =
the EC3 schematic so no clue what drives the coils.
>=20
> Finn
>=20
> On 7/9/2019 10:35 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
>> All EC3 drivers are IRL530NS power MOSFETs with a on-resistance of =
0.1 ohms.
>>=20
>> So the voltage the coils see will pretty much be whatever your 12 =
volt bus is -- whatever the alternator outputs.
>>=20
>> Haven't looked at the program code but suspect that coil sees full =
voltage during the dwell time -- simple on/off.
>>=20
>> Finn
>>=20
>> On 7/8/2019 9:24 PM, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Depends what voltage it's??nominal at.
>>> Look at the Miata link, it shows actual GM dwell settings from their =
ECU.
>>>=20
>>> You'll see RPM vs voltage for the dwell settings. I don't know how =
Tracy's computer handles the dwell.
>>>=20
>>> - Matt Boiteau
>>>> On 2019-07-08 7:17:34 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> So which MS document do we take as being the good oil for the LS2 =
coils. Is it 4.0mS or 3.5mS ?=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Steve Izett=20
>>>>=20
>>>> > On 9 Jul 2019, at 6:04 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com =
wrote:=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> > That's an outdated page. I'm not sure why they even keep them =
alive.=20
>>>> > http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3baseV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf=20
>>>> > Page 93=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> > Of course that number depends what voltage is consider at =
"nominal". Not sure if Tracy's changes value based on voltage or not. =
And RPM vs Manifold pressure=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> > =
https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/lsx-coil-thread-82744/p=
age8/#post1380088
>>>> >=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> >=20
>>>> > - Matt Boiteau=20
>>>> >> On 2019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net =
wrote:=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Matt,=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585???s? At least one =
Megasquirt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is the wide range =
between Tracy???s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. If the             =
      megasqiurt information is correct then Tracy was very conservative =
with the LS1 settings. 4.0ms vs 5.6ms.=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Bobby=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft =
[mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20
>>>> >> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM=20
>>>> >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft=20
>>>> >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> For the LS2 - D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the recommended dwell.=20=

>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> - Matt Boiteau=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> On 2019-07-05 7:37:10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com =
wrote:=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Thanks Bobby and Lyn.=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> According to Tracy???s code - 2.6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7, 4.0 =
mSec LS2, 4.3 mSec LS1.=20
>>>> >> I also wondered about the timing difference between the various =
coils trigger circuit actually firing.=20
>>>> >> Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSec and =
insignificant, but if its 100uSec=20
>>>> >> then the timing difference between various coil types might =
become significant.=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> @ 7000 RPM=20
>>>> >> 1 rev takes 8.6mSec=20
>>>> >> So each degree of EShaft rotation is 24uSec.=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Thanks again for the help.=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> Steve=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> > On 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net =
wrote:=20
>>>> >> >=20
>>>> >> > Lynn,=20
>>>> >> >=20
>>>> >> > Default is what ever Tracy set it to. The CAS location is not =
adjustable so default is set in his code.=20
>>>> >> >=20
>>>> >> > Bobby=20
>>>> >> >=20
>>>> >> > Sent from my iPhone=20
>>>> >> >=20
>>>> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:43 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com =
wrote:=20
>>>> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> What is the "Default" advance? Is that checked with a timing =
light? Easy starting can be up to 15 degrees of advance. For full power =
use up to 27 degrees of advance is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted =
engines require less advance as boost increases. Because the effective =
compression ratio as well as charge temperature is going up. Very high =
boost my have advance closer to zero. Advance is used to allow full =
combustion=20
>>>> >> >> of the charge before the exhaust port opens. At higher =
pressure and temps the flame front speeds are increasing. So, less time =
is needed. Thus less advance is needed. Lowering intake air temps with =
an inter-cooler and adding water spray can allow higher boost.=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> Boosting to maintain sea level performance would probably not =
shorten engine life. Boosting for additional performance does shorten =
engine life. The kids get over 600 HP with boosted drag racing engines. =
This is fine if you only need the engine for 9 seconds. You have to know =
what the actual advance is to make any decision. Mark the flex plate or =
flywheel teeth with paint so you can check actual advance during any =
RPM.=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> It is difficult to detonate an NA engine. It is not difficult =
detonate a boosted engine.=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> Lynn E. Hanover=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> In a message dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Standard =
Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> Steve,=20
>>>> >> >> I???m running default timing or maybe 1 degree advanced. =
Early on I experimented with 1-2 degrees advance for many flight hours =
and did not detect any noticeable change in engine performance. I did =
push the engine to what I believe was detonation during a ground tuning =
session. I was tuning under boost (44??? MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband =
O2 on each runner and adjusting Mode 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced =
between each rotor and EGT???s under 1600F I was trying to see if =
increasing timing would lower EGT???s. F/A was in the 11???s. This was =
at the end of the session and the engine and supercharger were already =
hot. I think I had added 4-5 degrees advance with no noticeable EGT =
decrease when I encountered a mild bang or misfire. This condition was =
well above my 38??? MP limit I sometimes use for takeoff.=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> I???m curious about the dwell time setting difference between =
LS1 and LS2 coils. I switched to LS2 coils sometime back with no =
failures to date. I remember seeing an option setting in some of the =
code you or Finn posted. Internet research indicates LS2 coils require =
less dwell time than LS1. Possibly 0.5-1 ms less.=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> Bobby=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> Sent from my iPad=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> > Hi there Guys=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> > Of the guys with Renesis engines using EC2/3 can you =
comment on your timing settings.=20
>>>> >> >> > I???ve to date left the timing at the default setting =
figuring its set by the location of the CAS.=20
>>>> >> >> > Not sure if the various coil options have different trigger =
timing latency.=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> > Thanks=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> > Steve Izett=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> >=20
>>>> >> >> > --=20
>>>> >> >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>>>> >> >> > Archive and UnSub: =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>>>> >> >>=20
>>>> >> >> --=20
>>>> >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>>>> >> >> Archive and UnSub: =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >> --=20
>>>> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>>>> >> Archive and UnSub: =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>> >>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> --=20
>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>>>> Archive and UnSub: =
http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
>=20