X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PNVxBsiC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=NmBNnxQgUxF/yGedaqV0nw==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=0o9FgrsRnhwA:10 a=J4CmDkmY71QA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=lKPQtorlAAAA:8 a=MMMxZlE7AAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=s1I-Y6CqAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=5TynelurHPoeo92ZYpwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=TbTuEfNj71wA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=G_5s8neSAAAA:8 a=IVFKUTp_AAAA:8 a=OWH-AOJtgY7gRdJ95ksA:9 a=CXCn38bia+p0sy/2pKQifXr+l1E=:19 a=YKghfksaF2cRISNJ:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=opVyWQfbEivB9Nt9EY2k:22 a=c1TPop_4XmU7Vuhlasjn:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=1z8CZO-gz1oi-LRGHyP3:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=5aLEZlHgtCWrS4oMx5Sh:22 From: "Samuel Hodges samueln462wp@att.net" Received: from sonic316-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.130.124] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12746374 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 10:22:07 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.130.124; envelope-from=samueln462wp@att.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1562682109; bh=/Y3SNft5tPjdXYlC76SW6iQOHa+vAmVIHJohof/IqOY=; h=Date:From:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=tZ9Nl7IgWu2FKiR6aRSfUX10C1ml+QDhNUEu150fsVDYTBP/NG1m1pNS6sC5ikGoj2fjw/9fxZREmeirHwMh+HbgG0uqqChGhxXXwr8sddZosIQz3cq6+5F7m8DZEdg0Id8U0uRhdSOSa7QuTRcDKP+N7XAQidlSFnniD/H1um0= X-YMail-OSG: .WgzccQVM1nnDS0T1hlWb7UMApTbqixe0FgXnRRTSRMaTbwhxar2ZMleZhF8DyP oKMbLiuE2zzn4q7m6p3PtKOCuUbSaNHFYj0N_vsd7GGWYAiXrD0YMIzAsZSEEYEpfmXooU6dFNPm ZEAOaiQrWp8x4akRDToYEU4G8QFRNBTlXn4hMYIIck4D775wiqkIHyNOx9eBzYs0HIaYdf9ho1mk lPn3EAyB_9S80TKgE1K9n.XJZYRzxl76aBFQST91m6osfYJ.GqaB_JmCLMJkTML2TWmNQXIfEhRj KfkdoV.pIukfq1ri9Y.HsXOLp4PdDTvcDj4dierI4leJRc8wMRbwgIBk29J22M_26GidK9kb3Wds gQZrhx3Sabfw38j9zo7OOj9HkSa437hLw6CvbDOJ3XRwKgaoQu4NrsG6LKOEfGZttOCRL8MUUXX. uXg1HJuwcTa9riNW8G9HE_fkJJqBb1iJD2d28AWYEyoch8audedT080ec4VYedNUoXj_K5rT92PN RY4q8pba4D2Mqur2Fo1wq9MJAm1_MlZ7sgxDm7PkbSvQHuOg1ieksXdF7Yjtq0LeiGYUO7zlbrNa VQUQlNg1niaYMLUx5eEQinjDYhl.jnINC9czx4BZEh3jF_UYUfIodUUnCqfm1cq4tOaabLRe8xrw fXIsGTQXfK2UCNO.Rzx4RilDnzdEeNJaJoFF79ZpGz3y.IIIuxw7ybfuOeZgAVOWTfA6a2RuApZP 7jNX.ZPWnKkjOCGSw5s.PdZQau9dEMLYWKjYCPjijmcIfj7DbX8csxAjqE8C0S1nzjPwqcedOgg0 IqZ1IkavrIjePmXpWXojeg6l6CddlVre3.uECw7pDW3pcLojXKSiyOIxbuZgrE5ZC2kV9fF8H2N9 ZlgD.jyDG4E3v_78Zr37XP3Hw8Q.Ep2ANVO_y4vy_CtbujS2wj5DqepvCspSoEKaOcOTMcQj1Cyi g5i4T9em_RLDP.2k6ZJlVr5v_jOOBZdxjkUO.XXgSPCjEEQ9TveLNny6Lat2JvURrPcV0aiNktX2 LLRFr8erAMycfmlkHLgeX5F_f5_qHiUeFBV81BZRUTTbTJKDQg9jPrRvINICRuyqBB7Ft6IKVAVH hFp_H27QX9M9d22iA4OMbEyfSphFoqvFd62_X2ccicGk7mvM8ksqxrUR2GxbM1BVVntFju8D_XS2 004qVnRO.0ys- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic316.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:21:49 +0000 Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 14:21:48 +0000 (UTC) To: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" Message-ID: <1303072305.3148065.1562682108437@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3148064_605527.1562682108434" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.13913 YMailNorrin Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/64.0.3282.140 Safari/537.36 Edge/18.17763 Content-Length: 23968 ------=_Part_3148064_605527.1562682108434 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting video bench testing coils LS2_Yukon_ign_coil_test.wmv |=20 |=20 |=20 | | | | | |=20 | |=20 LS2_Yukon_ign_coil_test.wmv Description and bench-testing of LS1, LS2 (D-580) and "Yukon" (D-585) coil-= near-plug GM coils. film: Bruce Bowling | | | On Monday, July 8, 2019, 06:24:52 PM PDT, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmai= l.com wrote: =20 =20 Depends what voltage it's=C2=A0nominal at. Look at the Miata link, it shows actual GM dwell settings from their ECU. You'll see RPM vs voltage for the dwell settings. I don't know how Tracy's = computer handles the dwell. - Matt Boiteau =20 On 2019-07-08 7:17:34 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: So which MS document do we take as being the good oil for the LS2 coils. Is= it 4.0mS or 3.5mS ? Steve Izett > On 9 Jul 2019, at 6:04 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote: >=20 > That's an outdated page. I'm not sure why they even keep them alive. > http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3baseV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf > Page 93 >=20 > Of course that number depends what voltage is consider at "nominal". Not = sure if Tracy's changes value based on voltage or not. And RPM vs Manifold = pressure >=20 > https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/lsx-coil-thread-82744/= page8/#post1380088 >=20 >=20 >=20 > - Matt Boiteau >> On 2019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >>=20 >> Matt, >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585=E2=80=99s? At least one Megas= quirt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is the wide range between T= racy=E2=80=99s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. If the megasqiurt inform= ation is correct then Tracy was very conservative with the LS1 settings. 4.= 0ms vs 5.6ms. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Bobby >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20 >> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> For the LS2 - D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the recommended dwell. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> - Matt Boiteau >>=20 >> On 2019-07-05 7:37:10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >>=20 >> Thanks Bobby and Lyn.=20 >>=20 >> According to Tracy=E2=80=99s code - 2.6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7, 4.0 mSec= LS2, 4.3 mSec LS1.=20 >> I also wondered about the timing difference between the various coils tr= igger circuit actually firing.=20 >> Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSec and insignificant, but= if its 100uSec=20 >> then the timing difference between various coil types might become signi= ficant.=20 >>=20 >> @ 7000 RPM=20 >> 1 rev takes 8.6mSec=20 >> So each degree of EShaft rotation is 24uSec.=20 >>=20 >> Thanks again for the help.=20 >>=20 >> Steve=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > On 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:=20 >> >=20 >> > Lynn,=20 >> >=20 >> > Default is what ever Tracy set it to. The CAS location is not adjustab= le so default is set in his code.=20 >> >=20 >> > Bobby=20 >> >=20 >> > Sent from my iPhone=20 >> >=20 >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:43 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:=20 >> >=20 >> >> What is the "Default" advance? Is that checked with a timing light? E= asy starting can be up to 15 degrees of advance. For full power use up to 2= 7 degrees of advance is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted engines require less= advance as boost increases. Because the effective compression ratio as wel= l as charge temperature is going up. Very high boost my have advance closer= to zero. Advance is used to allow full combustion=20 >> >> of the charge before the exhaust port opens. At higher pressure and t= emps the flame front speeds are increasing. So, less time is needed. Thus l= ess advance is needed. Lowering intake air temps with an inter-cooler and a= dding water spray can allow higher boost.=20 >> >>=20 >> >> Boosting to maintain sea level performance would probably not shorten= engine life. Boosting for additional performance does shorten engine life.= The kids get over 600 HP with boosted drag racing engines. This is fine if= you only need the engine for 9 seconds. You have to know what the actual a= dvance is to make any decision. Mark the flex plate or flywheel teeth with = paint so you can check actual advance during any RPM.=20 >> >>=20 >> >>=20 >> >> It is difficult to detonate an NA engine. It is not difficult detonat= e a boosted engine.=20 >> >>=20 >> >> Lynn E. Hanover=20 >> >>=20 >> >>=20 >> >> In a message dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net writes:=20 >> >>=20 >> >> Steve,=20 >> >> I=E2=80=99m running default timing or maybe 1 degree advanced. Early = on I experimented with 1-2 degrees advance for many flight hours and did no= t detect any noticeable change in engine performance. I did push the engine= to what I believe was detonation during a ground tuning session. I was tun= ing under boost (44=E2=80=9D MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband O2 on each runn= er and adjusting Mode 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced between each rotor an= d EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F I was trying to see if increasing timing would = lower EGT=E2=80=99s. F/A was in the 11=E2=80=99s. This was at the end of th= e session and the engine and supercharger were already hot. I think I had a= dded 4-5 degrees advance with no noticeable EGT decrease when I encountered= a mild bang or misfire. This condition was well above my 38=E2=80=9D MP li= mit I sometimes use for takeoff.=20 >> >>=20 >> >> I=E2=80=99m curious about the dwell time setting difference between L= S1 and LS2 coils. I switched to LS2 coils sometime back with no failures to= date. I remember seeing an option setting in some of the code you or Finn = posted. Internet research indicates LS2 coils require less dwell time than = LS1. Possibly 0.5-1 ms less.=20 >> >>=20 >> >> Bobby=20 >> >>=20 >> >> Sent from my iPad=20 >> >>=20 >> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote:=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> > Hi there Guys=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> > Of the guys with Renesis engines using EC2/3 can you comment on you= r timing settings.=20 >> >> > I=E2=80=99ve to date left the timing at the default setting figurin= g its set by the location of the CAS.=20 >> >> > Not sure if the various coil options have different trigger timing = latency.=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> > Thanks=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> > Steve Izett=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> >=20 >> >> > --=20 >> >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >> >> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html=20 >> >>=20 >> >> --=20 >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >> >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> --=20 >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20 >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html=20 >>=20 >>=20 -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml =20 ------=_Part_3148064_605527.1562682108434 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting video bench testing coils


LS2_Yukon_ign_coil_test.wmv



=20
=20
On Monday, July 8, 2019, 06:24:52 PM PDT, Matt Boiteau = mattboiteau@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:


Depends what voltage it's nominal at.
Look at the Miata link, it = shows actual GM dwell settings from their ECU.

You'll see RPM vs voltage for the dwell settings. I don't know how Trac= y's computer handles the dwell.

- Matt Boiteau

On 2019= -07-08 7:17:34 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net> wrote:

So which MS document do we take as being the good oil for the LS2= coils. Is it 4.0mS or 3.5mS ?

Steve Izett

> On 9 Jul 2019, at 6:04 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wro= te:
>=20
> That's an outdated page. I'm not sure why they even keep them aliv= e.
> http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3baseV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf
> Page 93
>=20
> Of course that number depends what voltage is consider at "nominal= ". Not sure if Tracy's changes value based on voltage or not. And RPM vs Ma= nifold pressure
>=20
> https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/lsx-coil-thread= -82744/page8/#post1380088
>=20
>=20
>=20
> - Matt Boiteau
>> On 2019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net w= rote:
>>=20
>> Matt,
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585=E2=80=99s? At least= one Megasquirt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is the wide range= between Tracy=E2=80=99s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. If the megasqi= urt information is correct then Tracy was very conservative with the LS1 se= ttings. 4.0ms vs 5.6ms.
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> Bobby
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net]=20
>> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM
>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> For the LS2 - D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the recommended dwell= .
>> =20
>>=20
>> =20
>>=20
>> - Matt Boiteau
>>=20
>> On 2019-07-05 7:37:10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.co= m wrote:
>>=20
>> Thanks Bobby and Lyn.=20
>>=20
>> According to Tracy=E2=80=99s code - 2.6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7= , 4.0 mSec LS2, 4.3 mSec LS1.=20
>> I also wondered about the timing difference between the variou= s coils trigger circuit actually firing.=20
>> Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSec and insignif= icant, but if its 100uSec=20
>> then the timing difference between various coil types might be= come significant.=20
>>=20
>> @ 7000 RPM=20
>> 1 rev takes 8.6mSec=20
>> So each degree of EShaft rotation is 24uSec.=20
>>=20
>> Thanks again for the help.=20
>>=20
>> Steve=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> > On 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.n= et wrote:=20
>> >=20
>> > Lynn,=20
>> >=20
>> > Default is what ever Tracy set it to. The CAS location is= not adjustable so default is set in his code.=20
>> >=20
>> > Bobby=20
>> >=20
>> > Sent from my iPhone=20
>> >=20
>> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:43 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com = wrote:=20
>> >=20
>> >> What is the "Default" advance? Is that checked with a= timing light? Easy starting can be up to 15 degrees of advance. For full p= ower use up to 27 degrees of advance is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted engi= nes require less advance as boost increases. Because the effective compress= ion ratio as well as charge temperature is going up. Very high boost my hav= e advance closer to zero. Advance is used to allow full combustion=20
>> >> of the charge before the exhaust port opens. At highe= r pressure and temps the flame front speeds are increasing. So, less time i= s needed. Thus less advance is needed. Lowering intake air temps with an in= ter-cooler and adding water spray can allow higher boost.=20
>> >>=20
>> >> Boosting to maintain sea level performance would prob= ably not shorten engine life. Boosting for additional performance does shor= ten engine life. The kids get over 600 HP with boosted drag racing engines.= This is fine if you only need the engine for 9 seconds. You have to know w= hat the actual advance is to make any decision. Mark the flex plate or flyw= heel teeth with paint so you can check actual advance during any RPM.=20
>> >>=20
>> >>=20
>> >> It is difficult to detonate an NA engine. It is not d= ifficult detonate a boosted engine.=20
>> >>=20
>> >> Lynn E. Hanover=20
>> >>=20
>> >>=20
>> >> In a message dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Stand= ard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:=20
>> >>=20
>> >> Steve,=20
>> >> I=E2=80=99m running default timing or maybe 1 degree = advanced. Early on I experimented with 1-2 degrees advance for many flight = hours and did not detect any noticeable change in engine performance. I did= push the engine to what I believe was detonation during a ground tuning se= ssion. I was tuning under boost (44=E2=80=9D MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband= O2 on each runner and adjusting Mode 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced betwe= en each rotor and EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F I was trying to see if increasi= ng timing would lower EGT=E2=80=99s. F/A was in the 11=E2=80=99s. This was = at the end of the session and the engine and supercharger were already hot.= I think I had added 4-5 degrees advance with no noticeable EGT decrease wh= en I encountered a mild bang or misfire. This condition was well above my 3= 8=E2=80=9D MP limit I sometimes use for takeoff.=20
>> >>=20
>> >> I=E2=80=99m curious about the dwell time setting diff= erence between LS1 and LS2 coils. I switched to LS2 coils sometime back wit= h no failures to date. I remember seeing an option setting in some of the c= ode you or Finn posted. Internet research indicates LS2 coils require less = dwell time than LS1. Possibly 0.5-1 ms less.=20
>> >>=20
>> >> Bobby=20
>> >>=20
>> >> Sent from my iPad=20
>> >>=20
>> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Stephen Izett steph= en.izett@gmail.com wrote:=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> > Hi there Guys=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> > Of the guys with Renesis engines using EC2/3 can= you comment on your timing settings.=20
>> >> > I=E2=80=99ve to date left the timing at the defa= ult setting figuring its set by the location of the CAS.=20
>> >> > Not sure if the various coil options have differ= ent trigger timing latency.=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> > Thanks=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> > Steve Izett=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> >=20
>> >> > --=20
>> >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>> >> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net= :81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>> >>=20
>> >> --=20
>> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>> >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/l= ists/flyrotary/List.html=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> --=20
>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=20
>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyr= otary/List.html=20
>>=20
>>=20


--
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html
=20
------=_Part_3148064_605527.1562682108434--