X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PNVxBsiC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=mkXaO6UkrcTOUokUjSM1cw==:117 a=T7Eb+n+m9IlVTBMuP+kThw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=K7ySfSCCDxUA:10 a=0o9FgrsRnhwA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=lKPQtorlAAAA:8 a=MMMxZlE7AAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=s1I-Y6CqAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=QSzgb4n3fMEe-FCts5MA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=TbTuEfNj71wA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=pubZVUF4gr2iciaNEM8A:9 a=1GdRLWYFyB796tLs:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=opVyWQfbEivB9Nt9EY2k:22 a=c1TPop_4XmU7Vuhlasjn:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=1z8CZO-gz1oi-LRGHyP3:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" Received: from mail-vs1-f44.google.com ([209.85.217.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12744970 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 21:24:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.217.44; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com Received: by mail-vs1-f44.google.com with SMTP id v6so9559029vsq.4 for ; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:24:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references :user-agent; bh=Vpm99BNfJnNNZ7cmCibP0gK4cSxdzfhVmWU2rQnWNIU=; b=iZ5m/93RdEZnkNErQRQPodNox8YV2siQwciYTnXgDED52Ons93ZlgEaQcPNej+pA0f 6BAUmP238ZGrBk3F3txLw3iBitnJdMNzJ0v+0EufeVyGaemlM0GQJhJ5YuHs8SpgqyuZ G5iiHUBfwemphMhbgzDIN6UBv7OeP2FD3Sr+QDjgB6VpSqkIADCfjaUmppSLmy843+Qm pP2XEDVucFnCNk/DJG8Znk5r/qyYorLd7RGZ0MA+3U19hWa+hnK4Dr++vJyddsw04i5e d5BWBT0CgY3CWfuzI1HG/tWHYQYUdCVLQiIutMmRi4meiWks0evWlFDosRKzJnn2sQZo /wog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :in-reply-to:references:user-agent; bh=Vpm99BNfJnNNZ7cmCibP0gK4cSxdzfhVmWU2rQnWNIU=; b=GqGZx65cAq7x9zcWuC5edwstnTkNwuvxSD0rrH9lV8Sf+r7xU8NNHTAEHLC6kRR39/ JhYtfO0lJG2MbnpHw94DVhyNLwjBPJHNmka70UlivoVyh881J4u67+0HPRn31+NSZPOx suQcHiLQ6so6uSEE7r3zgTFpeGi5zla7X9W1dlQlvQeTMJZDGVJvDEbzogpoA+nBKXP9 h031TK7ozjV4IM5sQRgBsJ9ljv63ByMR798uRzSl+JiGnzOHQR5gVJhq+xZZZsO/4gLO YrasCeRDOnAbzu1nARKhsTxyBv1+aVlrvrKDdKa43B28mSVGyvTl+eKdpHlGM+LQEORi 9sJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWnUjLQvYN+GTWtwpPcOsQpXdE1/rAeMVFxjbn9/W90QUwdJeag ucBwP9ijqbZ2SLxhu07GFl7jWf7JKb0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzgwcXgb0ckKb4aiirJn0YEA1sgt+niH3m7cOZnUsKwdXaT9sTe2Hh2/GZYEXFB1UER2eg/fw== X-Received: by 2002:a67:1e44:: with SMTP id e65mr13309203vse.45.1562635471117; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.151] ([65.131.244.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k7sm4818495vkk.48.2019.07.08.18.24.30 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_50492598.801174144756" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 21:24:29 -0400 Message-ID: <9ab28f37-a315-405f-9ca0-581238e49049@getmailbird.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines To: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Mailbird/2.5.43.0 X-Mailbird-ID: 9ab28f37-a315-405f-9ca0-581238e49049@getmailbird.com ------=_NextPart_50492598.801174144756 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Depends what voltage it's=C2=A0nominal at. Look at the Miata link, it shows actual GM dwell settings from their ECU. You'll see RPM vs voltage for the dwell settings. I don't know how Tracy's = computer handles the dwell. - Matt Boiteau On 2019-07-08 7:17:34 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: So which MS document do we take as being the good oil for the LS2 coils. Is= it 4.0mS or 3.5mS ? Steve Izett > On 9 Jul 2019, at 6:04 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote: > > That's an outdated page. I'm not sure why they even keep them alive. > http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3baseV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf > Page 93 > > Of course that number depends what voltage is consider at "nominal". Not = sure if Tracy's changes value based on voltage or not. And RPM vs Manifold = pressure > > https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/lsx-coil-thread-82744/= page8/#post1380088 > > > > - Matt Boiteau >> On 2019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >> >> Matt, >> >> >> >> How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585=E2=80=99s? At least one Megas= quirt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is the wide range between T= racy=E2=80=99s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. If the megasqiurt inform= ation is correct then Tracy was very conservative with the LS1 settings. 4.= 0ms vs 5.6ms. >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm >> >> >> >> Bobby >> >> >> >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >> Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines >> >> >> >> For the LS2 - D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the recommended dwell. >> >> >> >> >> - Matt Boiteau >> >> On 2019-07-05 7:37:10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Thanks Bobby and Lyn. >> >> According to Tracy=E2=80=99s code - 2.6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7, 4.0 mSec= LS2, 4.3 mSec LS1. >> I also wondered about the timing difference between the various coils tr= igger circuit actually firing. >> Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSec and insignificant, but= if its 100uSec >> then the timing difference between various coil types might become signi= ficant. >> >> @ 7000 RPM >> 1 rev takes 8.6mSec >> So each degree of EShaft rotation is 24uSec. >> >> Thanks again for the help. >> >> Steve >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > On 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >> > >> > Lynn, >> > >> > Default is what ever Tracy set it to. The CAS location is not adjustab= le so default is set in his code. >> > >> > Bobby >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:43 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: >> > >> >> What is the "Default" advance? Is that checked with a timing light? E= asy starting can be up to 15 degrees of advance. For full power use up to 2= 7 degrees of advance is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted engines require less= advance as boost increases. Because the effective compression ratio as wel= l as charge temperature is going up. Very high boost my have advance closer= to zero. Advance is used to allow full combustion >> >> of the charge before the exhaust port opens. At higher pressure and t= emps the flame front speeds are increasing. So, less time is needed. Thus l= ess advance is needed. Lowering intake air temps with an inter-cooler and a= dding water spray can allow higher boost. >> >> >> >> Boosting to maintain sea level performance would probably not shorten= engine life. Boosting for additional performance does shorten engine life.= The kids get over 600 HP with boosted drag racing engines. This is fine if= you only need the engine for 9 seconds. You have to know what the actual a= dvance is to make any decision. Mark the flex plate or flywheel teeth with = paint so you can check actual advance during any RPM. >> >> >> >> >> >> It is difficult to detonate an NA engine. It is not difficult detonat= e a boosted engine. >> >> >> >> Lynn E. Hanover >> >> >> >> >> >> In a message dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrot= ary@lancaironline.net writes: >> >> >> >> Steve, >> >> I=E2=80=99m running default timing or maybe 1 degree advanced. Early = on I experimented with 1-2 degrees advance for many flight hours and did no= t detect any noticeable change in engine performance. I did push the engine= to what I believe was detonation during a ground tuning session. I was tun= ing under boost (44=E2=80=9D MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband O2 on each runn= er and adjusting Mode 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced between each rotor an= d EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F I was trying to see if increasing timing would = lower EGT=E2=80=99s. F/A was in the 11=E2=80=99s. This was at the end of th= e session and the engine and supercharger were already hot. I think I had a= dded 4-5 degrees advance with no noticeable EGT decrease when I encountered= a mild bang or misfire. This condition was well above my 38=E2=80=9D MP li= mit I sometimes use for takeoff. >> >> >> >> I=E2=80=99m curious about the dwell time setting difference between L= S1 and LS2 coils. I switched to LS2 coils sometime back with no failures to= date. I remember seeing an option setting in some of the code you or Finn = posted. Internet research indicates LS2 coils require less dwell time than = LS1. Possibly 0.5-1 ms less. >> >> >> >> Bobby >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> >> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com = wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Hi there Guys >> >> > >> >> > Of the guys with Renesis engines using EC2/3 can you comment on you= r timing settings. >> >> > I=E2=80=99ve to date left the timing at the default setting figurin= g its set by the location of the CAS. >> >> > Not sure if the various coil options have different trigger timing = latency. >> >> > >> >> > Thanks >> >> > >> >> > Steve Izett >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > -- >> >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html >> >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html >> >> -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml ------=_NextPart_50492598.801174144756 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Depends what voltage it's nominal at.
Look at the Miata link, it = shows actual GM dwell settings from their ECU.

You'll see RPM vs voltage for the dwell settings. I don't know how Trac= y's computer handles the dwell.

- Matt Boiteau

On 2= 019-07-08 7:17:34 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net> wrote:

So which MS document do we take as being the good oil for the LS2= coils. Is it 4.0mS or 3.5mS ?=0D
=0D
Steve Izett=0D
=0D
> On 9= Jul 2019, at 6:04 am, Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com wrote:=0D
> =0D
> That's an outdated page. I'm not sure = why they even keep them alive.=0D
> http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3ba= seV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf=0D
> Page 93=0D
> =0D
> Of course that numb= er depends what voltage is consider at "nominal". Not sure if Tracy's chang= es value based on voltage or not. And RPM vs Manifold pressure=0D
> =0D<= br>> https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/lsx-coil-thread-827= 44/page8/#post1380088=0D
> =0D
> =0D
> =0D
> - Matt Boiteau=0D<= br>>> On 2019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:=0D
>> =0D
>> Matt,=0D
>> =0D
>> = =0D
>> =0D
>> How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585=E2=80=99s? A= t least one Megasquirt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is the wid= e range between Tracy=E2=80=99s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. If the = megasqiurt information is correct then Tracy was very conservative with the= LS1 settings. 4.0ms vs 5.6ms.=0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> = =0D
>> =0D
>> http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm=0D
>> =0D>> =0D
>> =0D
>> Bobby=0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> From= : Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] =0D
>> = Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM=0D
>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft= =0D
>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines=0D
>> =0D>> =0D
>> =0D
>> For the LS2 - D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the reco= mmended dwell.=0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> - Matt Bo= iteau=0D
>> =0D
>> On 2019-07-05 7:37:10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.iz= ett@gmail.com wrote:=0D
>> =0D
>> Thank= s Bobby and Lyn. =0D
>> =0D
>> According to Tracy=E2=80=99s code - 2.= 6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7, 4.0 mSec LS2, 4.3 mSec LS1. =0D
>> I also wond= ered about the timing difference between the various coils trigger circuit = actually firing. =0D
>> Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSe= c and insignificant, but if its 100uSec =0D
>> then the timing differenc= e between various coil types might become significant. =0D
>> =0D
>> = @ 7000 RPM =0D
>> 1 rev takes 8.6mSec =0D
>> So each degree of EShaft= rotation is 24uSec. =0D
>> =0D
>> Thanks again for the help. =0D
= >> =0D
>> Steve =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D>> =0D
>> =0D
>> > On 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughe= s@qnsi.net wrote: =0D
>> > =0D
>> > Lynn, =0D
>> > =0D
>> > Def= ault is what ever Tracy set it to. The CAS location is not adjustable so de= fault is set in his code. =0D
>> > =0D
>> > Bobby =0D
>> > =0D
= >> > Sent from my iPhone =0D
>> > =0D
>> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:43 P= M, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: =0D
>> > =0D
>> >> What is the = "Default" advance? Is that checked with a timing light? Easy starting can b= e up to 15 degrees of advance. For full power use up to 27 degrees of advan= ce is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted engines require less advance as boost = increases. Because the effective compression ratio as well as charge temper= ature is going up. Very high boost my have advance closer to zero. Advance = is used to allow full combustion =0D
>> >> of the charge before the exha= ust port opens. At higher pressure and temps the flame front speeds are inc= reasing. So, less time is needed. Thus less advance is needed. Lowering int= ake air temps with an inter-cooler and adding water spray can allow higher = boost. =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> Boosting to maintain sea level performance= would probably not shorten engine life. Boosting for additional performanc= e does shorten engine life. The kids get over 600 HP with boosted drag raci= ng engines. This is fine if you only need the engine for 9 seconds. You hav= e to know what the actual advance is to make any decision. Mark the flex pl= ate or flywheel teeth with paint so you can check actual advance during any= RPM. =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> It is difficult to detonate an= NA engine. It is not difficult detonate a boosted engine. =0D
>> >> =0D=
>> >> Lynn E. Hanover =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> In a messa= ge dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net writes: =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> Steve, =0D
>> >> I=E2=80=99m run= ning default timing or maybe 1 degree advanced. Early on I experimented wit= h 1-2 degrees advance for many flight hours and did not detect any noticeab= le change in engine performance. I did push the engine to what I believe wa= s detonation during a ground tuning session. I was tuning under boost (44= =E2=80=9D MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband O2 on each runner and adjusting Mo= de 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced between each rotor and EGT=E2=80=99s und= er 1600F I was trying to see if increasing timing would lower EGT=E2=80=99s= . F/A was in the 11=E2=80=99s. This was at the end of the session and the e= ngine and supercharger were already hot. I think I had added 4-5 degrees ad= vance with no noticeable EGT decrease when I encountered a mild bang or mis= fire. This condition was well above my 38=E2=80=9D MP limit I sometimes use= for takeoff. =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> I=E2=80=99m curious about the dwell= time setting difference between LS1 and LS2 coils. I switched to LS2 coils= sometime back with no failures to date. I remember seeing an option settin= g in some of the code you or Finn posted. Internet research indicates LS2 c= oils require less dwell time than LS1. Possibly 0.5-1 ms less. =0D
>> >>= =0D
>> >> Bobby =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> Sent from my iPad =0D
>> >= > =0D
>> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@g= mail.com wrote: =0D
>> >> > =0D
>> >> > Hi there Guys =0D
>> >> > = =0D
>> >> > Of the guys with Renesis engines using EC2/3 can you comment= on your timing settings. =0D
>> >> > I=E2=80=99ve to date left the timi= ng at the default setting figuring its set by the location of the CAS. =0D<= br>>> >> > Not sure if the various coil options have different trigger timi= ng latency. =0D
>> >> > =0D
>> >> > Thanks =0D
>> >> > =0D
>> >= > > Steve Izett =0D
>> >> > =0D
>> >> > =0D
>> >> > =0D
>> >> >= =0D
>> >> > -- =0D
>> >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =0D>> >> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrota= ry/List.html =0D
>> >> =0D
>> >> -- =0D
>> >> Homepage: http://www= .flyrotary.com/ =0D
>> >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.n= et:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D
>> -- =0D
>> = Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ =0D
>> Archive and UnSub: http://mai= l.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html =0D
>> =0D
>> =0D=0D
=0D
--=0D
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/=0D
Archive = and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html=0D<= br>
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