X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PNVxBsiC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=YvncyWKU8vH86JFzZL29Ow==:117 a=T7Eb+n+m9IlVTBMuP+kThw==:17 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=K7ySfSCCDxUA:10 a=0o9FgrsRnhwA:10 a=lKPQtorlAAAA:8 a=MMMxZlE7AAAA:8 a=FM08_ByLAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=s1I-Y6CqAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=IgYkFmE_H1uzxRdeyVcA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=sHRRW18WLJEA:10 a=TbTuEfNj71wA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4Mb6DiDLTv_Kfof5d6kA:9 a=u4d7u5jzX1dtqxjs:21 a=6FQZ7VHbl3wA:10 a=opVyWQfbEivB9Nt9EY2k:22 a=c1TPop_4XmU7Vuhlasjn:22 a=4uFpV22ZZCfKs9MsCV4o:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=1z8CZO-gz1oi-LRGHyP3:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Matt Boiteau mattboiteau@gmail.com" Received: from mail-vs1-f54.google.com ([209.85.217.54] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.13) with ESMTPS id 12744762 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:04:47 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.217.54; envelope-from=mattboiteau@gmail.com Received: by mail-vs1-f54.google.com with SMTP id a186so9291475vsd.7 for ; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:04:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:in-reply-to:references :user-agent; bh=rT4Y6FDVBTi/EZO+s7n6g19wIVmr61dOf+FPFz4xrzk=; b=iPbU6Hz3v8rFO9y8hFy05cGjUJZpAePSgLM5kKmkRPWYJXX3uzvL6yCKL+GR4PqTx3 Px2owzG27YSfR4qgSN+lbxDdy8yjcAP5oDkFgjOUi/OIahgbphoZmrSffEct/8lPTPGX XxHR3FvxqEeYEL3rmpELUN2IB32Lp9WVcQP0FrCXqiUqE+ceiZ/zDeEIqI0A4+LbC7o5 A7WKRzDGRpm6mvBVRYqFoU/riv3pl//D4P3iAJvTi/y0RtlbVpc4iQZ1OP7ibsCHVunj a0mDJklCxc0kvVV6Sq9mdb6F8xIvxXy+Nl5SeCRpCy5i4I9yt78MuTQb6b0152bqrZz2 N2gA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :in-reply-to:references:user-agent; bh=rT4Y6FDVBTi/EZO+s7n6g19wIVmr61dOf+FPFz4xrzk=; b=dIcsgUoeDMaWp1qZBgyyfrWCkIMN2R3XeeTRK7Y6404EPA586lQidR3xfaHjVOpBcs qapfRfwTyGbuMr5pamddJyqNgmgotbE3MAieU8CiNKmRoha8B7NSu6DZcACCl1Ip30sP 9xnSWCnWoKL0YPkyj1nYgOE6wSpvcSAIRMfAJolM3NWiYUs2+IRNM5SUJMmkKVBG8xbp K0MvioVkQg6BaCxdS8VXmVIUpDNKqylMtGN176y1PJ/P6hm4TCvkWseuonm0c0eiAIwi Xp01HgO7PWX+rRlIu6A0ERW2EwZjcu29xnePUyuJwT33dgnSBBQ+kKl6+I6PMGuq5cAj kU2g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWDOdb6WP2ZoDhrQEdzYfoYRo1e2t6THJoFAK7ssS9h5wp2z0nh YOATXCxOHqXQkmhZvLxagVd11Xy3+B8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzlq4Lbme4QdbT9lyWYE+KxTZ5/sMUvAnoT7fzblxwNRxcDSd6sNu4aJTmHyDSvuvLlfByj2Q== X-Received: by 2002:a67:7d13:: with SMTP id y19mr11849523vsc.232.1562623470078; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:04:30 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.0.151] ([65.131.244.239]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q190sm4676951vkb.39.2019.07.08.15.04.28 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jul 2019 15:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_64710837.340082579633" MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 18:04:27 -0400 Message-ID: <239f51d6-335e-48bc-aa4d-d4f5d24e6e57@getmailbird.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines To: "Luciano, Luis I CIV USN NUWC DIV NEWPORT RI (US) luis.i.luciano@navy.mil" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Mailbird/2.5.43.0 X-Mailbird-ID: 239f51d6-335e-48bc-aa4d-d4f5d24e6e57@getmailbird.com ------=_NextPart_64710837.340082579633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's an outdated page. I'm not sure why they even keep them alive. http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/MS3baseV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf [http://www.msex= tra.com/doc/pdf/MS3baseV30_Hardware-1.4.pdf] Page 93 Of course that number depends what voltage is consider at "nominal". Not su= re if Tracy's changes value based on voltage or not. And RPM vs Manifold pr= essure https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/lsx-coil-thread-82744/pa= ge8/#post1380088 [http://forums.tbforums.com/showthread.php?t=3D254712] - Matt Boiteau On 2019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: Matt, =C2=A0 How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585=E2=80=99s? At least one Megasqui= rt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is the wide range between Trac= y=E2=80=99s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. If the megasqiurt informati= on is correct then Tracy was very conservative with the LS1 settings. 4.0ms= vs 5.6ms. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm [http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coil= s.htm] =C2=A0 Bobby =C2=A0 From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engines =C2=A0 For the LS2 -=C2=A0D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the recommended dwell. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Matt Boiteau On 2019-07-05 7:37:10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Bobby and Lyn. According to Tracy=E2=80=99s code - 2.6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7, 4.0 mSec LS= 2, 4.3 mSec LS1. I also wondered about the timing difference between the various coils trigg= er circuit actually firing. Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSec and insignificant, but if= its 100uSec then the timing difference between various coil types might become signific= ant. @ 7000 RPM 1 rev takes 8.6mSec So each degree of EShaft rotation is 24uSec. Thanks again for the help. Steve > On 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: > > Lynn, > > Default is what ever Tracy set it to. The CAS location is not adjustable = so default is set in his code. > > Bobby > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:43 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: > >> What is the "Default" advance? Is that checked with a timing light? Easy= starting can be up to 15 degrees of advance. For full power use up to 27 d= egrees of advance is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted engines require less ad= vance as boost increases. Because the effective compression ratio as well a= s charge temperature is going up. Very high boost my have advance closer to= zero. Advance is used to allow full combustion >> of the charge before the exhaust port opens. At higher pressure and temp= s the flame front speeds are increasing. So, less time is needed. Thus less= advance is needed. Lowering intake air temps with an inter-cooler and addi= ng water spray can allow higher boost. >> >> Boosting to maintain sea level performance would probably not shorten en= gine life. Boosting for additional performance does shorten engine life. Th= e kids get over 600 HP with boosted drag racing engines. This is fine if yo= u only need the engine for 9 seconds. You have to know what the actual adva= nce is to make any decision. Mark the flex plate or flywheel teeth with pai= nt so you can check actual advance during any RPM. >> >> >> It is difficult to detonate an NA engine. It is not difficult detonate a= boosted engine. >> >> Lynn E. Hanover >> >> >> In a message dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary= @lancaironline.net writes: >> >> Steve, >> I=E2=80=99m running default timing or maybe 1 degree advanced. Early on = I experimented with 1-2 degrees advance for many flight hours and did not d= etect any noticeable change in engine performance. I did push the engine to= what I believe was detonation during a ground tuning session. I was tuning= under boost (44=E2=80=9D MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband O2 on each runner = and adjusting Mode 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced between each rotor and E= GT=E2=80=99s under 1600F I was trying to see if increasing timing would low= er EGT=E2=80=99s. F/A was in the 11=E2=80=99s. This was at the end of the s= ession and the engine and supercharger were already hot. I think I had adde= d 4-5 degrees advance with no noticeable EGT decrease when I encountered a = mild bang or misfire. This condition was well above my 38=E2=80=9D MP limit= I sometimes use for takeoff. >> >> I=E2=80=99m curious about the dwell time setting difference between LS1 = and LS2 coils. I switched to LS2 coils sometime back with no failures to da= te. I remember seeing an option setting in some of the code you or Finn pos= ted. Internet research indicates LS2 coils require less dwell time than LS1= . Possibly 0.5-1 ms less. >> >> Bobby >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wro= te: >> > >> > Hi there Guys >> > >> > Of the guys with Renesis engines using EC2/3 can you comment on your t= iming settings. >> > I=E2=80=99ve to date left the timing at the default setting figuring i= ts set by the location of the CAS. >> > Not sure if the various coil options have different trigger timing lat= ency. >> > >> > Thanks >> > >> > Steve Izett >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List= .html -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml ------=_NextPart_64710837.340082579633 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's an outdated page. I'm not su= re why they even keep them alive.




- = Matt Boiteau

On 2= 019-07-08 11:58:11 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net> wrote:

Matt,

 

How did you end up with 3.5ms for the D585=E2=80= =99s? At least one Megasquirt resource shows 4.0ms at 14VDC. My concern is = the wide range between Tracy=E2=80=99s LS1 4.3ms and the 3.5ms referenced. = If the megasqiurt information is correct then Tracy was very conservative w= ith the LS1 settings. =C2=A0=C2=A04.0ms vs 5.6ms.

 <= /p>

 

http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm=

 

Bobby

=

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2019 8:03 PM
To: Rotary mot= ors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: timing on renesis engine= s

 =

For the LS2 - D585 truck coils, 3.5ms is the recommende= d dwell.
 

 

- Matt Boiteau

<= blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:= 0in 0in 0in 8.0pt;margin-left:0in;margin-top:15.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">On 2019-07-05 7:37:= 10 PM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t> wrote:

Thanks Bobby and Lyn.

According to Tracy=E2=80=99s c= ode - 2.6 mSec RX8, 3.5 mSec RX7, 4.0 mSec LS2, 4.3 mSec LS1.
I also wo= ndered about the timing difference between the various coils trigger circui= t actually firing.
Now I suppose that difference might be a few uSec an= d insignificant, but if its 100uSec
then the timing difference between = various coil types might become significant.

@ 7000 RPM
1 rev t= akes 8.6mSec
So each degree of EShaft rotation is 24uSec.

Thank= s again for the help.

Steve







> On= 6 Jul 2019, at 2:52 am, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
> <= br>> Lynn,
>
> Default is what ever Tracy set it to. The C= AS location is not adjustable so default is set in his code.
>
&= gt; Bobby
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 5,= 2019, at 12:43 PM, lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
>
>>= ; What is the "Default" advance? Is that checked with a timing li= ght? Easy starting can be up to 15 degrees of advance. For full power use u= p to 27 degrees of advance is good up to 10,500 RPM. Boosted engines requir= e less advance as boost increases. Because the effective compression ratio = as well as charge temperature is going up. Very high boost my have advance = closer to zero. Advance is used to allow full combustion
>> of th= e charge before the exhaust port opens. At higher pressure and temps the fl= ame front speeds are increasing. So, less time is needed. Thus less advance= is needed. Lowering intake air temps with an inter-cooler and adding water= spray can allow higher boost.
>>
>> Boosting to mainta= in sea level performance would probably not shorten engine life. Boosting f= or additional performance does shorten engine life. The kids get over 600 H= P with boosted drag racing engines. This is fine if you only need the engin= e for 9 seconds. You have to know what the actual advance is to make any de= cision. Mark the flex plate or flywheel teeth with paint so you can check a= ctual advance during any RPM.
>>
>>
>> It is = difficult to detonate an NA engine. It is not difficult detonate a boosted = engine.
>>
>> Lynn E. Hanover
>>
>>=
>> In a message dated 7/5/2019 10:22:44 AM Eastern Standard Time= , flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>>
>> Steve,
= >> I=E2=80=99m running default timing or maybe 1 degree advanced. Ear= ly on I experimented with 1-2 degrees advance for many flight hours and did= not detect any noticeable change in engine performance. I did push the eng= ine to what I believe was detonation during a ground tuning session. I was = tuning under boost (44=E2=80=9D MP) , 7000 rpm with a wideband O2 on each r= unner and adjusting Mode 9 and Mode 4. With F/A balanced between each rotor= and EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F I was trying to see if increasing timing wou= ld lower EGT=E2=80=99s. F/A was in the 11=E2=80=99s. This was at the end of= the session and the engine and supercharger were already hot. I think I ha= d added 4-5 degrees advance with no noticeable EGT decrease when I encounte= red a mild bang or misfire. This condition was well above my 38=E2=80=9D MP= limit I sometimes use for takeoff.
>>
>> I=E2=80=99m c= urious about the dwell time setting difference between LS1 and LS2 coils. I= switched to LS2 coils sometime back with no failures to date. I remember s= eeing an option setting in some of the code you or Finn posted. Internet re= search indicates LS2 coils require less dwell time than LS1. Possibly 0.5-1= ms less.
>>
>> Bobby
>>
>> Sent fr= om my iPad
>>
>> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 12:58 AM, Step= hen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote:
>> >
>> >= ; Hi there Guys
>> >
>> > Of the guys with Renesi= s engines using EC2/3 can you comment on your timing settings.
>>= > I=E2=80=99ve to date left the timing at the default setting figuring = its set by the location of the CAS.
>> > Not sure if the vario= us coil options have different trigger timing latency.
>> > >> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Steve Izett
= >> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>= ;> > --
>> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
>= ;> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrot= ary/List.html
>>
>> --
>> Homepage: http://ww= w.flyrotary.com/
>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.= net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


--
Homepage: http://www.fl= yrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/= flyrotary/List.html

=
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