X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Np+vjPVJ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=009Z90vDMkrtyQNGSNfQpg==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=KJlNJeHkcVsA:10 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=qBFUcJ2_AAAA:8 a=U6X_2EJcAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=JBDTjBjsSSUU50Q0saEA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=LKehEgn9J7AA:10 a=DafdoAFNBw4A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=0wYKngu-yWlX2EKJElYA:9 a=yYjmhuBu1u09nufi:21 a=B_RyunTPg8udlmYm5Cu2:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=cp47PM4wlqr5L9-lCGO5:22 a=nV98HLy25BINaCVz_2IH:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com" Received: from mail-vs1-f42.google.com ([209.85.217.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPS id 12600213 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 26 May 2019 20:00:46 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.217.42; envelope-from=sam.hoskins@gmail.com Received: by mail-vs1-f42.google.com with SMTP id q64so9474098vsd.1 for ; Sun, 26 May 2019 17:00:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=tIy3SmN1d7GBdFDoTfVule2zknDwviHorUWzASgW54o=; b=AiFuB5Ucvpd1rfPGP867PT/slm/O8qykMka08wUOJuGAiUJ7JXt5G5IchkmBcksKan EZ4O0564F4LL9iSIUujzit40I58TyND59yyszZy3wEfzWv6qbFU8U71/Y75dkNT1GTbB xoqP51ezO8lUv0FOW6bFqZG75gF5QFEEZOmN6/LebHcHeepOmAVvo+F7R62syzQENElS oH0XHH94bhhNQOzRTL97auGX/wCPwK63kBxUoe+PskKEbu2pDyuK0jEzcKezzh0k2bkK +04HWzBIelwOkH5gDo0umEqOJjLBsQsnIeNL8BbRV1S+6pSj6X55uZgmf0cqOXSX1T23 8ZSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=tIy3SmN1d7GBdFDoTfVule2zknDwviHorUWzASgW54o=; b=SrlSFa4VKijySG8fupQs1Yftr2l1//cFVUGM/zh1am0QLmzTLnM2hrhRll38Cebp2d 7r1Ux/sz1oIB1oCirXldZ7o4laGvY0O6Y0iACCJOMQX3STQXaNoBe8f4G89RIQKAS9eX 8gpU8tL+zaKD9oVTAm3drgZ6zXvbdFwMca/2bpJcG2EB/kUpzDrjM5bhZey75qwt8Lxs 5qlo3ntFI4mjtRMajrTt7P5zqBYgvcM4hOPlUo5d5G9R+m+SXKakvBsYqL1KploQ/1Lr EFTlcHGWP02wVoeHvOjl7NMlMt6gW8Jmh98f/DVczeC3Qg/JLj5YwuDqcVIEY81HTU3R ubSg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUP8LkxgU7tDIwyy8yZp6oZFEI+/cGe1G9YEE/A/lhbeGAnKgM/ HBE1woPf5DhhozalxqGU+bn4svRk1mii3ogGly18xPtc2fc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyoOHnejencTtHYqcYUAo3htCJ2lMTHSD8UTKFkgaNzcdPaEZc9ZfIXyWWB3WDR4Vn6JyZ7XmOIBqJy44vucBw= X-Received: by 2002:a67:f7d2:: with SMTP id a18mr19102678vsp.5.1558915230121; Sun, 26 May 2019 17:00:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 26 May 2019 19:00:18 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000086c8240589d33c0b" --00000000000086c8240589d33c0b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > What are you using for your 2nd ignition? How do you start the plane; > both on, or if only one, which one? I am using the EC3 for the upper and lower sets of plugs, per the installation instructions. I have LS1 coils for the upper and Motocraft for the lower plugs. The coils for each cylinder are tied together so they both fire from the same impulse from the ECU. Everything is on during starting. So 35 deg would be the maximum advance ever, but operating parameters > retard it back to around 23-25 deg BTDC for normal engine operation. I don't know if that is true or not. I believe the timing is set via an internal map that the user cannot adjust and changes due to RPM and MAP. I do not have an EM2 to monitor spark advance. I like the idea of cranking the engine while using an automotive timing light to determine how much advance is present during start. Right now I'm waiting for my started & alternator from B&C so it may be a while before I can do this test. On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 12:46 PM eanderson@carolina.rr.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Sam, > > If memory serves me right, computer control ignitions generally have their > static timing set to the maximum advance expected. Then based on engine > operating parmaters such as rpm and manifold pressure the ignition timing > is retarded from that maximum advance point. So 35 deg would be the > maximum advance ever, but operating parameters retard it back to around > 23-25 deg BTDC for normal engine operation. > > Ed > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com" > To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" > Sent: 5/26/2019 11:12:37 AM > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3? > > I was looking through my blog, written 10 years ago, when I was first > setting the system up. I do not have an em2 monitor. I use an automotive > timing light on my ignition settings. I see that at wide open throttle I > have a 25 degree advance, but at idle it advances to about 35 degrees. So > if the EC3 is starting with that much advance, it's no wonder I'm getting > kick back. However, I don't know if there is any sort of a ignition advance > built into the EC3 that I don't know about. > > This kickback is a relatively new situation. For the first eight years or > so I still had one magneto. I recently switched over to all electronic > ignition, and that's when this started. > > On Sun, May 26, 2019, 9:52 AM eanderson@carolina.rr.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> >> Hi Sam, >> >> Bill makes an excellent suggestion. When setting up your static timing >> pointer to your pulley, if you move the spot for TDC on the pulley so that >> it is a few degrees before/after (rotation wise) the timing pointer (A >> little help here, can't recall which way is before/after TDC) thereby >> retarding the timing, then you can use your EM4 to ensure the timing >> setting in the EC3 for the Advance/Retard you want when engine is running. >> Then when you initially start, the firing point should occur after TDC by a >> couple degrees reducing the kick back probability and once running you can >> adjust the timing advance once for you normal operation and be done with >> it.. >> >> The main point is setting the static timing point so that it occurs af >> few degrees after TDC on the pulley. >> >> Its been a while for me, so the rest of you guys jump in here. Sam >> shouldn't have to swap out his EC3 to fix his kickback problem. >> >> Ed >> >> >> Edward Anderson >> Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC >> 305 Reefton Rd >> Weddington, NC 28104 -0569 >> 704 821 7595 >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "William Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com" < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: 5/25/2019 2:18:11 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3? >> >> I had an EC-2, and donated my plane to the local EAA chapter who sold it >> to another user, so I no longer have the manual, but I believe it had a >> programming option for advancing the timing when the engine is running, so >> why not RETARD the timing mechanically and then use the advance system to >> bring it forward when running? >> >> On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 8:36 AM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Another option would be the MegaSquirt/MicroSquirt family of >>> controllers. Seems to be pretty mature tech, and at least in the case of >>> the MicroSquirt, a very compact and affordable package. >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> On 5/25/2019 9:28 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >>> >>> Tracy suggested I look into >>> https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino >>> >>> Sounds like a low-cost solution. But would require hardware changes and >>> programming. >>> >>> Finn >>> >>> On 5/25/2019 9:59 AM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> I have an EC3 installed in my O-200 powered Quickie Q-200 >>> . I was wondering if anyone might have >>> any suggestions.?? I need a simple (famous last words) programming change >>> and was wondering if anyone might have any idea how I might do this. >>> >>> The problem is, the spark is not retarded during starting and all too >>> often I get a nasty kickback. Doesn't happen all the time, but it still >>> occurs.?? I have figured out that first running the starter without the >>> ignition turned on seems to "loosen up" the engine and I have a better >>> chance. This kickback has resulted in damage to the starter bearing and I >>> have returned it to B&C for repairs. >>> >>> The circuit hoard has two main chips which are removable. The "A" side >>> is the main controller for normal operations and the "B" side is the >>> redundant side.?? >>> >>> Is there any someone could figure out what programming language was >>> used, then modify it a bit? >>> >>> Tracy programmed Lyn French's controller to retard the spark during >>> starting, so I know it can be done. >>> >>> If I can't make this programming change, I'll have to spend $3,000 - >>> 5,000, installing another system, such as SDS, so I'm making a last ditch >>> attempt.?? I would appreciate your thoughts. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Sam >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> [image: Avast logo] >>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> <#m_-1314469336792705814_m_1787248712279016083_m_-8542942413399644492_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >> --00000000000086c8240589d33c0b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0Wh= at are you using for your 2nd ignition? How do you start the plane; both on= , or if only one, which one?=C2=A0=C2=A0

I am us= ing the EC3 for the upper and lower sets of plugs, per the installation=C2= =A0instructions. I have LS1 coils for the upper and Motocraft for the lower= plugs. The coils for each cylinder are tied together so they both fire fro= m the same impulse from the ECU. Everything is on during starting.

=
So 35 deg would be the ma= ximum advance ever, but operating parameters retard it back to around 23-25= deg BTDC for normal engine operation.=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0<= /div>
=C2=A0I don't know if that is true or not. I believe the timi= ng is set via an internal map that the user cannot adjust and changes due t= o RPM and MAP. I do not have an EM2 to monitor spark advance. I like the id= ea of cranking the engine while using an automotive timing light to determi= ne how much advance is present during start. Right now I'm waiting for = my started & alternator from B&C so it may be a while before I can = do this test.

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 12:46 PM eanderson@carolina.rr.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote= :
Hi S= am,

If memory serves me right, computer control ig= nitions generally have their static timing set to the maximum advance expec= ted.=C2=A0 Then based on engine operating parmaters such as rpm and manifol= d pressure the ignition timing is retarded from that maximum advance point.= =C2=A0 So 35 deg would be the maximum advance ever, but operating parameter= s retard it back to around 23-25 deg BTDC for normal engine operation.

Ed

------ Original Message ------
From: "Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net><= /div>
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= ;
Sent: 5/26/2019 11:12:37 AM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3?
=

I was looking through my blog, written 10 years ago, when= I was first setting the system up. I do not have an=C2=A0 em2 monitor. I u= se an automotive timing light on my ignition settings. I see that at wide o= pen throttle I have a 25 degree advance, but at idle it advances to about 3= 5 degrees. So if the EC3 is starting with that much advance, it's no wo= nder I'm getting kick back. However, I don't know if there is any s= ort of a ignition advance built into the EC3 that I don't know about.
This kickback is a relatively n= ew situation. For the first eight years or so I still had one magneto. I re= cently switched over to all electronic ignition, and that's when this s= tarted.

On Sun, May 26, 2019, 9:52 AM eanderson@carolina.rr.com <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net> wrote:

Hi Sam,

Bill makes an excellent suggestion.= =C2=A0 When setting up your static timing pointer to your pulley, if you mo= ve the spot for TDC on the pulley so that it is a few degrees before/after = (rotation wise) =C2=A0the timing pointer (A little help here, can't rec= all which way is before/after TDC) thereby retarding the timing, then you c= an use your EM4 to ensure the timing setting in the EC3 for the Advance/Ret= ard you want when engine is running.=C2=A0 Then when you initially start, t= he firing point should occur after TDC by a couple degrees reducing the kic= k back probability and once running you can adjust the timing advance once = for you normal operation and be done with it.. =C2=A0

<= div>The main point is setting the static timing point so that it occurs af = few degrees =C2=A0after TDC =C2=A0on the pulley.

I= ts been a while for me, so the rest of you guys jump in here.=C2=A0 Sam sho= uldn't have to swap out his EC3 to fix his kickback problem.
=
Ed


Edward Ander= son
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
305 Reefton Rd
Weddington, NC 28104 -0569
704 82= 1 7595


------ Original Message ------
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net>
Sent: 5/25/2019 2:18:11 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3?
=

I had an EC-2, and donated my plane to the local EAA chapt= er who sold it to another user, so I no longer have the manual, but I belie= ve it had a programming option for advancing the timing when the engine is = running, so why not RETARD the timing mechanically and then use the advance= system to bring it forward when running?

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 8:36 AM Ch= arlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Another option would be the MegaSquirt/MicroSquirt family of controllers. Seems to be pretty mature tech, and at least in the case of the MicroSquirt, a very compact and affordable package.

Charlie

On 5/25/2019 9:28 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
=20
Tracy suggested I look into https://speeduino.com/wiki/i= ndex.php/Speeduino

Sounds like a low-cost solution. But would require hardware changes and programming.

Finn

On 5/25/2019 9:59 AM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com wrote:
=20
I have an EC3 installed in my O-200 powered Quickie Q-= 200. I was wondering if anyone might have any suggestions.?? I need a simple (famous last words) programming change and was wondering if anyone might have any idea how I might do this.

The problem is, the spark is not retarded during starting and all too often I get a nasty kickback. Doesn't happen al= l the time, but it still occurs.?? I have figured out that first running the starter without the ignition turned on seems to "loosen up" the engine and I have a better c= hance. This kickback has resulted in damage to the starter bearing and I have returned it to B&C for repairs.

The circuit hoard has two main chips which are removable. The "A" side is the main controller for normal operat= ions and the "B" side is the redundant side.??

Is there any someone could figure out what programming language was used, then modify it a bit?

Tracy programmed Lyn French's controller to retard the spark during starting, so I know it can be done.

If I can't make this programming change, I'll have t= o spend $3,000 - 5,000, installing another system, such as SDS, so I'm making a last ditch attempt.?? I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks.

Sam





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