X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=JejCUnCV c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=PLmf03/XISqa0a2yp/VmgA==:117 a=jpOVt7BSZ2e4Z31A5e1TngXxSK0=:19 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=ayC55rCoAAAA:8 a=o1OHuDzbAAAA:8 a=qBFUcJ2_AAAA:8 a=U6X_2EJcAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=wE3E9GSIeB5q1azR-GAA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=LKehEgn9J7AA:10 a=DafdoAFNBw4A:10 a=gA6IeH5FQcgA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=jR3SIxV7h3FdWuqdeqkA:9 a=kivCIc5P0KJxDQwZ:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=B_RyunTPg8udlmYm5Cu2:22 a=5YQ6H4ZxyGn-KoBYtt8s:22 a=cp47PM4wlqr5L9-lCGO5:22 a=nV98HLy25BINaCVz_2IH:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f182.google.com ([209.85.214.182] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.12) with ESMTPS id 12589612 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 26 May 2019 12:01:21 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.182; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f182.google.com with SMTP id go2so6043188plb.9 for ; Sun, 26 May 2019 09:01:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1a5l1Rf+XIVUjPh7AAApUwZ8akzvQfA0F7fjEaYBxAw=; b=fsV4GFgxTLAvvHggZudzpVW/BCQGO5WBQgI8r95qw7+cSsvd+CkRzrvch9yYrRWyeo 9MZgxS0SpORevXVBBoChnJuVS1nvc981C6sG/ucjwEU162qJuaG0iaiQjjv+r2LhPw73 eFFD/UYF3l531Ijh5kUSTJFmTecP791+G7Q3sdhYUSihcla1R7xuvVRSEou87FcnF+PH LrnTUt1NL2MSZNVXtO3avaIf3HapS9yKplBWwSBfRD0i0qGXv79dIzVPylmMlk2HTwy4 HHuHETk9GisQ6Gwdm4UpBZvaiaNPR22ymyBJJe/DTFWCyN4cyE6O1we+KdC5t6PzdozJ LLAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1a5l1Rf+XIVUjPh7AAApUwZ8akzvQfA0F7fjEaYBxAw=; b=ZhUWlufck5N7wJ1DrPX87wj9NA6eRZMwcNCjhHfem8iKrxjNzToPfpAUVV3aePOWGL YOwNWa6Dn15GdXetdCIRBosg51v+RnXbb6oKGDmm9BzQd6d2CMRsZKe2fD9kxm2LDreG 2PIwYXYFCKz9fB3XFrkT5/NCsrV4NCAs20GY9IRIiHt9CumH+ddRGqrbmY/CjR1H5dmh nzNZbtQ/+Qx5nJTX0MWIwCkxckZjUy74J1O3edO5MMUY+BjWzisOsgNyiQFMxWyEmT+g mkzmCo0DVkHJwk8cp/SQhujalKZZrblI3lvRXq0hXsJerXgGg/cvi8Kad/dAoKDl5z4+ +C0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWlzsxo8H59snKhvJKc+FJ40PkA6bjtPr1HIKu7NmKBI9y6Exbz 0lvIF6r2AePrj3s7MTTFFzxtdgu2UzDApmqt1rQ8+w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzygcgi8Ezt26iPxaLAKmq56qjZ/jWPC6Rw8/ZhGRkZrgKKF9ZkCtHocVaXYqQWR/ocnuEsScCfEya9xTM0aBM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:4181:: with SMTP id f1mr98858759pld.22.1558886462999; Sun, 26 May 2019 09:01:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 26 May 2019 10:57:15 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3? To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000df523b0589cc8900" --000000000000df523b0589cc8900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" That's useful data. What are you using for your 2nd ignition? How do you start the plane; both on, or if only one, which one? It's probably not a safe bet to assume your 4cyl programming is the same as for a rotary, but I'd have expected Tracy to program in retarded timing for start/idle. Have you shutting off the fuel and checking timing while cranking? That should tell you where the timing is set for starting. If you're firing before TDC during start, and the ignition map can't be retarded down in the sub-1k rpm range, then I'd be the 3rd vote to retard static timing (move the CAS later in rotation) so you get ATDC at start, and program in higher rpm advance to compensate. On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 10:13 AM Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > I was looking through my blog, written 10 years ago, when I was first > setting the system up. I do not have an em2 monitor. I use an automotive > timing light on my ignition settings. I see that at wide open throttle I > have a 25 degree advance, but at idle it advances to about 35 degrees. So > if the EC3 is starting with that much advance, it's no wonder I'm getting > kick back. However, I don't know if there is any sort of a ignition advance > built into the EC3 that I don't know about. > > This kickback is a relatively new situation. For the first eight years or > so I still had one magneto. I recently switched over to all electronic > ignition, and that's when this started. > > On Sun, May 26, 2019, 9:52 AM eanderson@carolina.rr.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> >> Hi Sam, >> >> Bill makes an excellent suggestion. When setting up your static timing >> pointer to your pulley, if you move the spot for TDC on the pulley so that >> it is a few degrees before/after (rotation wise) the timing pointer (A >> little help here, can't recall which way is before/after TDC) thereby >> retarding the timing, then you can use your EM4 to ensure the timing >> setting in the EC3 for the Advance/Retard you want when engine is running. >> Then when you initially start, the firing point should occur after TDC by a >> couple degrees reducing the kick back probability and once running you can >> adjust the timing advance once for you normal operation and be done with >> it.. >> >> The main point is setting the static timing point so that it occurs af >> few degrees after TDC on the pulley. >> >> Its been a while for me, so the rest of you guys jump in here. Sam >> shouldn't have to swap out his EC3 to fix his kickback problem. >> >> Ed >> >> >> Edward Anderson >> Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC >> 305 Reefton Rd >> Weddington, NC 28104 -0569 >> 704 821 7595 >> >> >> ------ Original Message ------ >> From: "William Schertz wschertz343@gmail.com" < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> >> To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" >> Sent: 5/25/2019 2:18:11 PM >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3? >> >> I had an EC-2, and donated my plane to the local EAA chapter who sold it >> to another user, so I no longer have the manual, but I believe it had a >> programming option for advancing the timing when the engine is running, so >> why not RETARD the timing mechanically and then use the advance system to >> bring it forward when running? >> >> On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 8:36 AM Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Another option would be the MegaSquirt/MicroSquirt family of >>> controllers. Seems to be pretty mature tech, and at least in the case of >>> the MicroSquirt, a very compact and affordable package. >>> >>> Charlie >>> >>> On 5/25/2019 9:28 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote: >>> >>> Tracy suggested I look into >>> https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Speeduino >>> >>> Sounds like a low-cost solution. But would require hardware changes and >>> programming. >>> >>> Finn >>> >>> On 5/25/2019 9:59 AM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> I have an EC3 installed in my O-200 powered Quickie Q-200 >>> . I was wondering if anyone might have >>> any suggestions.?? I need a simple (famous last words) programming change >>> and was wondering if anyone might have any idea how I might do this. >>> >>> The problem is, the spark is not retarded during starting and all too >>> often I get a nasty kickback. Doesn't happen all the time, but it still >>> occurs.?? I have figured out that first running the starter without the >>> ignition turned on seems to "loosen up" the engine and I have a better >>> chance. This kickback has resulted in damage to the starter bearing and I >>> have returned it to B&C for repairs. >>> >>> The circuit hoard has two main chips which are removable. The "A" side >>> is the main controller for normal operations and the "B" side is the >>> redundant side.?? >>> >>> Is there any someone could figure out what programming language was >>> used, then modify it a bit? >>> >>> Tracy programmed Lyn French's controller to retard the spark during >>> starting, so I know it can be done. >>> >>> If I can't make this programming change, I'll have to spend $3,000 - >>> 5,000, installing another system, such as SDS, so I'm making a last ditch >>> attempt.?? I would appreciate your thoughts. >>> >>> Thanks. >>> >>> Sam >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> [image: Avast logo] >>> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> www.avast.com >>> >>> >>> <#m_487185341955540285_m_1787248712279016083_m_-8542942413399644492_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >> --000000000000df523b0589cc8900 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
That's useful data. What are you using for your 2nd ignit= ion? How do you start the plane; both on, or if only one, which one?=C2=A0<= /div>

It's probably not a s= afe bet to assume your 4cyl programming is the same as for a rotary, but I&= #39;d have expected Tracy to program in retarded timing for start/idle. Hav= e you shutting off the fuel and checking timing while cranking? That should= tell you where the timing is set for starting. If you're firing before= TDC during start, and the ignition map can't be retarded down in the s= ub-1k rpm range, then I'd be the 3rd vote to retard static timing (move= the CAS later in rotation) so you get ATDC at start, and program in higher= rpm advance to compensate.

On Sun, May 26, 2019 at 10:13 AM Sam Hoski= ns sam.hoskins@gmail.com <<= a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net">flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I was looking through my blog, written 10 years ago, when I= was first setting the system up. I do not have an=C2=A0 em2 monitor. I use= an automotive timing light on my ignition settings. I see that at wide ope= n throttle I have a 25 degree advance, but at idle it advances to about 35 = degrees. So if the EC3 is starting with that much advance, it's no wond= er I'm getting kick back. However, I don't know if there is any sor= t of a ignition advance built into the EC3 that I don't know about.
This kickback is a relatively new= situation. For the first eight years or so I still had one magneto. I rece= ntly switched over to all electronic ignition, and that's when this sta= rted.

On Sun, May 26, 2019, 9:52 AM eanderson@carolina.rr.com <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net> wrote:

Hi Sam,

Bill makes an excellent suggestion.= =C2=A0 When setting up your static timing pointer to your pulley, if you mo= ve the spot for TDC on the pulley so that it is a few degrees before/after = (rotation wise) =C2=A0the timing pointer (A little help here, can't rec= all which way is before/after TDC) thereby retarding the timing, then you c= an use your EM4 to ensure the timing setting in the EC3 for the Advance/Ret= ard you want when engine is running.=C2=A0 Then when you initially start, t= he firing point should occur after TDC by a couple degrees reducing the kic= k back probability and once running you can adjust the timing advance once = for you normal operation and be done with it.. =C2=A0

<= div>The main point is setting the static timing point so that it occurs af = few degrees =C2=A0after TDC =C2=A0on the pulley.

I= ts been a while for me, so the rest of you guys jump in here.=C2=A0 Sam sho= uldn't have to swap out his EC3 to fix his kickback problem.
=
Ed


Edward Anderso= n
Anderson Electronic Enterprises LLC
<= /div>
305 Reefton Rd
Weddington, NC 28104 -0569
704 821 = 7595


------ Original Message ------
To: "Rotary motors in aircraft" <flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net>
Sent: 5/25/2019 2:18:11 PM
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: How to make a program change to my EC3?
=

I had an EC-2, and donated my plane to the local EAA chapt= er who sold it to another user, so I no longer have the manual, but I belie= ve it had a programming option for advancing the timing when the engine is = running, so why not RETARD the timing mechanically and then use the advance= system to bring it forward when running?

On Sat, May 25, 2019 at 8:36 AM Ch= arlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Another option would be the MegaSquirt/MicroSquirt family of controllers. Seems to be pretty mature tech, and at least in the case of the MicroSquirt, a very compact and affordable package.

Charlie

On 5/25/2019 9:28 AM, Finn Lassen finn.lassen@verizon.net wrote:
=20
Tracy suggested I look into https://speeduino.com/wiki/ind= ex.php/Speeduino

Sounds like a low-cost solution. But would require hardware changes and programming.

Finn

On 5/25/2019 9:59 AM, Sam Hoskins sam.hoskins@gmail.com wrote:
=20
I have an EC3 installed in my O-200 powered Quickie Q-= 200. I was wondering if anyone might have any suggestions.?? I need a simple (famous last words) programming change and was wondering if anyone might have any idea how I might do this.

The problem is, the spark is not retarded during starting and all too often I get a nasty kickback. Doesn't happen al= l the time, but it still occurs.?? I have figured out that first running the starter without the ignition turned on seems to "loosen up" the engine and I have a better c= hance. This kickback has resulted in damage to the starter bearing and I have returned it to B&C for repairs.

The circuit hoard has two main chips which are removable. The "A" side is the main controller for normal operat= ions and the "B" side is the redundant side.??

Is there any someone could figure out what programming language was used, then modify it a bit?

Tracy programmed Lyn French's controller to retard the spark during starting, so I know it can be done.

If I can't make this programming change, I'll have t= o spend $3,000 - 5,000, installing another system, such as SDS, so I'm making a last ditch attempt.?? I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thanks.

Sam





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