X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=No+TSIVJ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Q+RT7pemMA8jd7xFDSW77A==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=L4eZ1bSIGfit-jTC1j4A:9 a=D7a_T1d_vMpa3nzc:21 a=C6xd_DcorDN06n7M:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=-IdAurfaBLylU_MX2KMA:9 a=u4Z5C2QRwY-Xdh9l:21 a=De04vQvl7DmLnNdx:21 a=_YGzYrJYYBOjbNTb:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com ([209.85.210.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.10) with ESMTPS id 12066291 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:41:05 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.176; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id u6so17305677pfh.11 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:41:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=oHCjMUOBXiLLMaZTnxM2QrJPkTU9lXeFKQe6QfieHjw=; b=JaX4VZkQhysWVtRomtwgsNwHmOX2hg7blc0I8qNW+9JPPW8pXcVDiHuRke4J32h6tW tP1aWKYRH/o+Mxj9DUV1xi1O4ciT2HDdWBvhOF1U69Q6iVxAVmAOytOTf5mnh9MzaDkZ 0oSAxbnEdFfcdBsHQsU7BvRk5obzrMxxOZgTN0P427Y9jO22wSrnq4WGT6yYIG6jeW8k IIkawHUUWU1ufFzNMSrDoyu+199+bzLeQQUsF9Y4jSDBZZ7HKR2yvXRnO3DD5fbTx7jx Cge1T2W/KBw3oEQEbILBAeGFlVxubuJbsQ/Ggmyzc9lz8isNnevm1skzD0hdjgaT47Hm 0cJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=oHCjMUOBXiLLMaZTnxM2QrJPkTU9lXeFKQe6QfieHjw=; b=ltiUoXRXbYcKG1vEje1/B/H/EiHvd6oJqsYnOF6hpIMnduwpRzdCT6o4ndMG9kh64d Mhied+FlAT4UuYyd7j66wvQ3v2SOU8xo3tbwOd9JsCPXd0ilwJO9R5UBjq0mOFWWZgBv f7ywlza35ltUht2WKOnMT6Um29i9hP6s0dg9pXD2050jGRrw8ZnpH0K68uyMyICCy+Ho +a5093+A7c8ItQxeUR4Y2o2s56yncnFLTgHCQiFJVKyB/7ELe6ph2r0ehlYEQhEcK+pn 2gNWJ4r+oKVE10CFu4904zLr8oO6o9Q7gYseAuNEfhEO+P1uJctV9lXhWS0HxxKCEDEv JT2g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUukfn9e30u1COFaNlpJL3+5Yys7qa+tJfUUcthjdPicddKFre94PB tVEilnMz0tXq9cBvWxjRvHfSFpj3JG1AOWwXnN7v8g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN5ZgbahghrcwfQmOQv9AfyaH1zs0XoHbD4nlvCFlR+oeUkK8JikRAPTZltuXRTJSJsRXoyBF4aF7pZgGcbUlzQ= X-Received: by 2002:a63:da14:: with SMTP id c20mr17789835pgh.233.1546555247459; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:40:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 16:39:53 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Saga continues To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002681fd057e957482" --0000000000002681fd057e957482 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You know they are 3 layers thick, right? I've cut one up, and modified another that's attached to my engine now, though it' hasn't run yet. I suspect that the inner liner is inconel, but I tig welded some stainless to it using stainless rod. The flange is cast iron, with the inner core probably inconel, 'something' over that, and the outside seems to be stainless. Dennis Haverlah has been flying one for a long time; perhaps he'll chime in with what he used to modify his. If I were starting today, I'd probably just use the flange and make up a header out of thick wall stainless tubing bends (meaning architectural guard rails). That's what Ed Anderson did a couple of decades ago on a much hotter running 13B, and it survived fine. Right, Ed? That manifold is pretty heavy. I used it because Dennis' plane was so quiet you could hear the prop. Then I heard Sam Hodges' plane that has a welded header, and it's not much louder than Dennis' plane (both are Renesis engines). Charlie Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 4:19 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Andrew, > > I spent a lot of time chasing temps, even after > supposedly calibrating with a thermometer. IN the end I found a bloke wh= o > simply took the number off the sender and put the relative values into th= e > computer. They nearly all read differently. The difference in my two oi= l > temps is confusing, as in theory should read almost the same. I no longe= r > care but remain confused which seems normal for me. > > Does anyone know what type of cast is the stock renesis exhaust manifold > made from? I normally use Procus welding rods for dissimilar metals, whi= ch > to date seem to stick even a broken marriage together. A delight to weld > with as they flow so smoothly . Not cheap but the job even makes my > welding look good. > > Neil. > On 1/4/2019 1:05 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: > > Hi Neil, I dont remember criticising, but maybe I did. Anyways your setup > works, thats all that matters. > Keep us updated with the turbo install. Tis fun to tinker, but more so to > fly. > > Pulled my oil filter & adapter plate off this arvo, realised the temp > sensor that is reading high is not completely in the oil flow, just the > very tip is, with rest of sensor in contact with adapter plate, so maybe > I=E2=80=99m sensing the rear iron temp rather than oil temp. would explai= n a lot, > and be a bugger, as I may not have had oil cooling issues at all for all > this time. > Andrew > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 2:19 pm, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Andrew, >> >> I think it was you who condemned my remote filter as >> undersized, anyway someone did. I have a 3/4 inch inlet size and out >> but sized down to 1/2 inch lines to and from. Oil pressure at cold is >> 120 psi and runs at 85 when hot or slightly less. I have one temp >> sensor in the back iron where Mazda put theirs and another one in the >> reduction drive. Temp in the reduction drive is always higher than the >> one in the rear iron as I suspect water is aiding that reading. Get up >> to 95 degrees in the reduction drive and only 85 to 90 in the rear iron. >> >> Have just a pressure reading post filter. It seems happy, so I am >> just flying. >> >> Have a stock exhaust manifold coming to see what I can do to reverse the >> direction and then fit a turbo. Yeah I should be shot I know, but just >> cannot stop fiddling. Will fit to another engine on the floor and then >> hopefully the change over will not ground me for long. I have an >> operation on my foot in Mid March which means I am grounded for 6 weeks, >> so me and my crutches should get the change over done in that time. >> >> Best for new year! Neil >> >> >> On 1/3/2019 3:19 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: >> > Really think I=E2=80=99m starting to win. But very slowly, which is >> > frustrating. Seems my initial overheating issues were a combination of >> > many things, not each that bad in installation but added together!!!! >> > and each masks the others. >> > >> > Mocal oil cooler definately works, and judicious application of duct >> > tape over all the now unnecessary holes in the cowl to improve airflow >> > seems to have done the job, and can now be done proper again with grp. >> > >> > But. Seems my oil filter is next on the list to address. I used the >> > stock mazda renesis oil filter. It actually looks too small to use ( >> > which I now believe it is) but I stuck with it because I assumed >> > mazda did the calculations ( No, the accountants probably took over). >> > Mazda=E2=80=99s filter setup only filters oil going to the oil galleri= es, most >> > oil is not filtered and just returns to sump via the OCV. Since >> > fitting new oil cooler I now also have 2 temp sensors, both after the >> > oil cooler but original 1 is also after the filter. Both are on rear >> iron. >> > >> > On latest flight, oil going to OCV max=E2=80=99d at 176f while filter= ed oil >> > going to oil gallery/rotors kept climbing to 216f where I aborted the >> > climb. Couldve kept going as temp started to behave as I reduced >> > climb, but I really want to fix these little nuances that restrict >> > performance. Maybe something unknown is affecting the sensor, >> > otherwise it has to be the filter. >> > >> > So, 2 choices, either a better filter that just filters gallery/rotor >> > oil, or a remote filter that filters all oil. >> > If using remote filters, what size/part number do you use? Has anyone >> > measured presure drop/ restriction through filters? >> > >> > Andrew >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> -- >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >> Archive and UnSub: >> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >> > -- > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag > > Virus-free. www.avast.com <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --0000000000002681fd057e957482 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
You= know they are 3 layers thick, right? I've cut one up, and modified ano= ther that's attached to my engine now, though it' hasn't run ye= t. I suspect that the inner liner is inconel, but I tig welded some stainle= ss to it using stainless rod. The flange is cast iron, with the inner core = probably inconel, 'something' over that, and the outside seems to b= e stainless.=C2=A0

Dennis= Haverlah has been flying one for a long time; perhaps he'll chime in w= ith what he used to modify his.

If I were starting today, I'd probably just use the flange and m= ake up a header out of thick wall stainless tubing bends (meaning architect= ural guard rails). That's what Ed Anderson did a couple of decades ago = on a much hotter running 13B, and it survived fine. Right, Ed?=C2=A0
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">
That manifold is pretty heavy.= I used it because Dennis' plane was so quiet you could hear the prop. = Then I heard Sam Hodges' plane that has a welded header, and it's n= ot much louder than Dennis' plane (both are Renesis engines).

Charlie=C2=A0


3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Thu, J= an 3, 2019 at 4:19 PM Neil Unger 1234= 8ung@gmail.com <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Andrew,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I spent a lot of time chas= ing temps, even after supposedly calibrating with a thermometer.=C2=A0 IN the end I found a bloke who simply took the number off the sender and put the relative values into the computer.=C2=A0 They nearly all read differently.=C2=A0 The difference in my two oil temps is confusing, a= s in theory should read almost the same.=C2=A0 I no longer care but remain confused which seems normal for me.

Does anyone know what type of cast is the stock renesis exhaust manifold made from?=C2=A0 I normally use Procus welding rods for dissimilar metals, which to date seem to stick even a broken marriage together.=C2=A0 A delight to weld with as they flow so smoothly .=C2=A0 Not cheap but the job even makes my welding look goo= d.

Neil.

On 1/4/2019 = 1:05 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.a= u wrote:
=20
Hi Neil, I dont remember criticising, but maybe I did. Anyways your setup works, thats all that matters.
Keep us updated with the turbo install. Tis fun to tinker, but more so to fly.

Pulled my oil filter & adapter plate off this arvo, realised the temp sensor that is reading high is not completely in the oil flow, just the very tip is, with rest of sensor in contact with adapter plate, so maybe I=E2=80=99m sensing = the rear iron temp rather than oil temp. would explain a lot, and be a bugger, as I may not have had oil cooling issues at all for all this time.
Andrew

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 2:19 pm, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Andrew,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I think it was you who = condemned my remote filter as
undersized, anyway someone did.=C2=A0 I have a 3/4 inch inlet size and out
but sized down to 1/2 inch lines to and from.=C2=A0 Oil pressur= e at cold is
120 psi and runs at 85 when hot or slightly less.=C2=A0 I have one temp
sensor in the back iron where Mazda put theirs and another one in the
reduction drive.=C2=A0 Temp in the reduction drive is always higher than the
one in the rear iron as I suspect water is aiding that reading.=C2=A0 Get up
to 95 degrees in the reduction drive and only 85 to 90 in the rear iron.

Have=C2=A0 just a pressure reading post filter.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 It seems happy, so I am
just flying.

Have a stock exhaust manifold coming to see what I can do to reverse the
direction and then fit a turbo.=C2=A0 Yeah I should be shot I know, but just
cannot stop fiddling.=C2=A0 Will fit to another engine on the floor and then
hopefully the change over will not ground me for long.=C2=A0 I have an
operation on my foot in Mid March which means I am grounded for 6 weeks,
so me and my crutches should get the change over done in that time.

Best for new year!=C2=A0 Neil


On 1/3/2019 3:19 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote:
> Really think I=E2=80=99m starting to win. But very slowly, which is
> frustrating. Seems my initial overheating issues were a combination of
> many things, not each that bad in installation but added together!!!!
> and each masks the others.
>
> Mocal oil cooler definately works, and judicious application of duct
> tape over all the now unnecessary holes in the cowl to improve airflow
> seems to have done the job, and can now be done proper again with grp.
>
> But. Seems my oil filter is next on the list to address. I used the
> stock mazda renesis oil filter. It actually looks too small to use (
> which I now believe it is) =C2=A0but I stuck with it becau= se I assumed
> mazda did the calculations ( No, the accountants probably took over).
> Mazda=E2=80=99s filter setup only filters oil going to the= oil galleries, most
> oil is not filtered and just returns to sump via the OCV. Since
> fitting new oil cooler I now also have 2 temp sensors, both after the
> oil cooler but original 1 is also after the filter. Both are on rear iron.
>
> On latest flight, oil going to OCV max=E2=80=99d at 176f = =C2=A0while filtered oil
> going to oil gallery/rotors kept climbing to 216f where I aborted the
> climb. Couldve kept going as temp started to behave as I reduced
> climb, but I really want to fix these little nuances that restrict
> performance. Maybe something unknown is affecting the sensor,
> otherwise it has to be the filter.
>
> So, 2 choices, either a better filter that just filters gallery/rotor
> oil, or a remote filter that filters all oil.
> If using remote filters, what size/part number do you use? Has anyone
> measured presure drop/ restriction through filters?
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>

--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0 =C2=A0http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com
--0000000000002681fd057e957482--