X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=No+TSIVJ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=mX+J7ikDS4dPfkq5Rxpi0w==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=3JhidrIBZZsA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=rHxKV6VKVRVuY7V9oZwA:9 a=qq_5Pk1mr1gU32GD:21 a=NQFYWFUvtUAChdqb:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=pi2gBCsb--MpJLZS2bMA:9 a=ly2I8xQuNemj74B2:21 a=MmTGgDfBq1MlIQbV:21 a=TB6IZgUCFkIge_66:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl1-f175.google.com ([209.85.214.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.10) with ESMTPS id 12066207 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 17:19:40 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.214.175; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id u6so16470944plm.8 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:19:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=+whlnq/O/URvK2/fHa7P0lJtJdSORt9HZ2scJpEIMok=; b=HEyKqYo6u7t+eg5ykHr23v+Q500ymxZ6q5jvGBb8f6Lc5WbVnyQ+Wtx6LKz8vmwsCQ iOetQn5tEjNW/oK7zvHO5oS3CMfwYniT0m6MmB8b+vdVFPFB+bJrvOA1rY/0ZtEJOhPM BLAZn3N19jmzKMHVOJ/9opBBI4vawYRgfpafhktEyNMnP4g9qV80YUUMKxU1kZNaZgqU JLCpbKKAKktEhGbU8VQu85kHoqVKdlYHB45Wq+tol5BWmVVXVipTIGD7WI6paXmCHTmI G5tpaN6a2oY4lWluSShv5U1l1sMcSZgbcjqNEu/XlHq82RDN7xDEPfPTBXGn6okeWE6M bSUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=+whlnq/O/URvK2/fHa7P0lJtJdSORt9HZ2scJpEIMok=; b=MzwvsK6bgEYzngW/6kOeDcFa8XGNaBcIaJ4txLvBALa6UEDD5OAdrq6IcmKWpej51a v+kFCGloCD4ot1r3mQL0ZuFiyiqcgBrBmUFVCjV6OUkEuhOnoZRwJCMEHjnjb4mGEnRV kYnDoL6K8CR7NHmHM19qsXzOX1nVqfGw74shPGO1h3rxwvHGI3LhTVQsaTXVZRYgMsNt kstYShDsySzla072fPRR7bz6T/INiE3KN81o++AM4Dl0HBW4dpMYoWf/2SZ8jMsRSaeO WLpChO8Dj2R5FDHlTnbXxU9cpklvFzgJn1mgknQnBLokR2r3OnHmbqYL8Iv6D6uE8YZs xchA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJcUuke5qrVNgr8HbltzoqKY0iDWX7K7BRWsFVgyPI031+z6ICJ0Z9wE 8X7+Wmfe9w0a4P/SN/i3GGprJrwN X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4rY7dtT/JGunHbEJSRSJ6R4ZcxroaCWzOs5TAGVHwUFFcJkZVi8j9gp8xKvFNYQtxN+pC9lA== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:14e:: with SMTP id 72mr48994314plb.287.1546553962883; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:19:22 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.103] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v72sm25397486pfd.163.2019.01.03.14.19.20 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Jan 2019 14:19:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Saga continues To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <105a032c-471d-e074-ee74-33a1beb98826@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2019 09:19:15 +1100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------803D5B5BC64AD4A6F320BA7C" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------803D5B5BC64AD4A6F320BA7C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andrew,                     I spent a lot of time chasing temps, even after supposedly calibrating with a thermometer.  IN the end I found a bloke who simply took the number off the sender and put the relative values into the computer.  They nearly all read differently.  The difference in my two oil temps is confusing, as in theory should read almost the same.  I no longer care but remain confused which seems normal for me. Does anyone know what type of cast is the stock renesis exhaust manifold made from?  I normally use Procus welding rods for dissimilar metals, which to date seem to stick even a broken marriage together.  A delight to weld with as they flow so smoothly .  Not cheap but the job even makes my welding look good. Neil. On 1/4/2019 1:05 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: > Hi Neil, I dont remember criticising, but maybe I did. Anyways your > setup works, thats all that matters. > Keep us updated with the turbo install. Tis fun to tinker, but more so > to fly. > > Pulled my oil filter & adapter plate off this arvo, realised the temp > sensor that is reading high is not completely in the oil flow, just > the very tip is, with rest of sensor in contact with adapter plate, so > maybe I’m sensing the rear iron temp rather than oil temp. would > explain a lot, and be a bugger, as I may not have had oil cooling > issues at all for all this time. > Andrew > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 2:19 pm, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Andrew, > >                     I think it was you who condemned my remote > filter as > undersized, anyway someone did.  I have a 3/4 inch inlet size and out > but sized down to 1/2 inch lines to and from.  Oil pressure at > cold is > 120 psi and runs at 85 when hot or slightly less.  I have one temp > sensor in the back iron where Mazda put theirs and another one in the > reduction drive.  Temp in the reduction drive is always higher > than the > one in the rear iron as I suspect water is aiding that reading.  > Get up > to 95 degrees in the reduction drive and only 85 to 90 in the rear > iron. > > Have  just a pressure reading post filter.    It seems happy, so I am > just flying. > > Have a stock exhaust manifold coming to see what I can do to > reverse the > direction and then fit a turbo.  Yeah I should be shot I know, but > just > cannot stop fiddling.  Will fit to another engine on the floor and > then > hopefully the change over will not ground me for long.  I have an > operation on my foot in Mid March which means I am grounded for 6 > weeks, > so me and my crutches should get the change over done in that time. > > Best for new year!  Neil > > > On 1/3/2019 3:19 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au > wrote: > > Really think I’m starting to win. But very slowly, which is > > frustrating. Seems my initial overheating issues were a > combination of > > many things, not each that bad in installation but added > together!!!! > > and each masks the others. > > > > Mocal oil cooler definately works, and judicious application of > duct > > tape over all the now unnecessary holes in the cowl to improve > airflow > > seems to have done the job, and can now be done proper again > with grp. > > > > But. Seems my oil filter is next on the list to address. I used the > > stock mazda renesis oil filter. It actually looks too small to > use ( > > which I now believe it is)  but I stuck with it because I assumed > > mazda did the calculations ( No, the accountants probably took > over). > > Mazda’s filter setup only filters oil going to the oil > galleries, most > > oil is not filtered and just returns to sump via the OCV. Since > > fitting new oil cooler I now also have 2 temp sensors, both > after the > > oil cooler but original 1 is also after the filter. Both are on > rear iron. > > > > On latest flight, oil going to OCV max’d at 176f  while filtered > oil > > going to oil gallery/rotors kept climbing to 216f where I > aborted the > > climb. Couldve kept going as temp started to behave as I reduced > > climb, but I really want to fix these little nuances that restrict > > performance. Maybe something unknown is affecting the sensor, > > otherwise it has to be the filter. > > > > So, 2 choices, either a better filter that just filters > gallery/rotor > > oil, or a remote filter that filters all oil. > > If using remote filters, what size/part number do you use? Has > anyone > > measured presure drop/ restriction through filters? > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag --------------803D5B5BC64AD4A6F320BA7C Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Andrew,

                    I spent a lot of time chasing temps, even after supposedly calibrating with a thermometer.  IN the end I found a bloke who simply took the number off the sender and put the relative values into the computer.  They nearly all read differently.  The difference in my two oil temps is confusing, as in theory should read almost the same.  I no longer care but remain confused which seems normal for me.

Does anyone know what type of cast is the stock renesis exhaust manifold made from?  I normally use Procus welding rods for dissimilar metals, which to date seem to stick even a broken marriage together.  A delight to weld with as they flow so smoothly .  Not cheap but the job even makes my welding look good.

Neil.

On 1/4/2019 1:05 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote:
Hi Neil, I dont remember criticising, but maybe I did. Anyways your setup works, thats all that matters.
Keep us updated with the turbo install. Tis fun to tinker, but more so to fly.

Pulled my oil filter & adapter plate off this arvo, realised the temp sensor that is reading high is not completely in the oil flow, just the very tip is, with rest of sensor in contact with adapter plate, so maybe I’m sensing the rear iron temp rather than oil temp. would explain a lot, and be a bugger, as I may not have had oil cooling issues at all for all this time.
Andrew

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 2:19 pm, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Andrew,

                    I think it was you who condemned my remote filter as
undersized, anyway someone did.  I have a 3/4 inch inlet size and out
but sized down to 1/2 inch lines to and from.  Oil pressure at cold is
120 psi and runs at 85 when hot or slightly less.  I have one temp
sensor in the back iron where Mazda put theirs and another one in the
reduction drive.  Temp in the reduction drive is always higher than the
one in the rear iron as I suspect water is aiding that reading.  Get up
to 95 degrees in the reduction drive and only 85 to 90 in the rear iron.

Have  just a pressure reading post filter.    It seems happy, so I am
just flying.

Have a stock exhaust manifold coming to see what I can do to reverse the
direction and then fit a turbo.  Yeah I should be shot I know, but just
cannot stop fiddling.  Will fit to another engine on the floor and then
hopefully the change over will not ground me for long.  I have an
operation on my foot in Mid March which means I am grounded for 6 weeks,
so me and my crutches should get the change over done in that time.

Best for new year!  Neil


On 1/3/2019 3:19 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote:
> Really think I’m starting to win. But very slowly, which is
> frustrating. Seems my initial overheating issues were a combination of
> many things, not each that bad in installation but added together!!!!
> and each masks the others.
>
> Mocal oil cooler definately works, and judicious application of duct
> tape over all the now unnecessary holes in the cowl to improve airflow
> seems to have done the job, and can now be done proper again with grp.
>
> But. Seems my oil filter is next on the list to address. I used the
> stock mazda renesis oil filter. It actually looks too small to use (
> which I now believe it is)  but I stuck with it because I assumed
> mazda did the calculations ( No, the accountants probably took over).
> Mazda’s filter setup only filters oil going to the oil galleries, most
> oil is not filtered and just returns to sump via the OCV. Since
> fitting new oil cooler I now also have 2 temp sensors, both after the
> oil cooler but original 1 is also after the filter. Both are on rear iron.
>
> On latest flight, oil going to OCV max’d at 176f  while filtered oil
> going to oil gallery/rotors kept climbing to 216f where I aborted the
> climb. Couldve kept going as temp started to behave as I reduced
> climb, but I really want to fix these little nuances that restrict
> performance. Maybe something unknown is affecting the sensor,
> otherwise it has to be the filter.
>
> So, 2 choices, either a better filter that just filters gallery/rotor
> oil, or a remote filter that filters all oil.
> If using remote filters, what size/part number do you use? Has anyone
> measured presure drop/ restriction through filters?
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
--------------803D5B5BC64AD4A6F320BA7C--