X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=PKtNwriC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=f0XSbmdCY37jY5x9wZlmuQ==:117 a=2ur7OfE09M0A:10 a=hfb1SqhoAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=doj253uPAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=LNL2Jvk4nRqueITxoZIA:9 a=7Zwj6sZBwVKJAoWSPKxL6X1jA+E=:19 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=oGsVtslaUA0Fg9K-oyoA:9 a=Fk6dLUi7uoZ29zg4:21 a=kwVnIJO-hb1ZVV62EN53:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=LxEQM0Qe_qWNT4-WEIfn:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au" Received: from mail-qt1-f172.google.com ([209.85.160.172] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.10) with ESMTPS id 11980388 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 18:10:46 -0500 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.172; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by mail-qt1-f172.google.com with SMTP id i7so10378243qtj.10 for ; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 15:10:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jsN670Pyk7EXsYgtrxnyIDUPWoiez2f4un+X9iEvEVA=; b=BwHkqRn4Ra/0NXzmKIunfioJ52NDoWAmh+QAL7ins3O9ZFU/eNWw+BmSBEJ7eLr7O4 ecPbUFclOwm7EKyvqfuI2aKWuCLt515LgzBNUOrnBsQGK0ZZH0q8x7W5sCNRuIia3x9T Kxk1obxnzlsbF7vC07sq5PGFG7B8PzEkv1fu/E99rFRnCHpCYfpLqtD9RS5eWz6DNxHm AtbpTNRFWYKQiEr+BJcQigvZqYmLsUggCNNlWXS3JHYAX6AwHUk3jzKON2QJKCHMf7Ec fOxl8zf0mPWrosrkFFpX2KecToqbaRsmy5Ynextay/p/iR+kcutgFyOuxnfu353LV0xV +tJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=jsN670Pyk7EXsYgtrxnyIDUPWoiez2f4un+X9iEvEVA=; b=PNVJtfb6TXE7+YZYzGrKU+6wo/yVck++zbENX5pW3+RyX49GikMHcIPNO5JreCxlYF 37SgKn2D7li7E61AvP9nxw8E0NaU9PYt80DqaV/zD83mP5ytPvA13RX+Jkrb1v5eE/SM 3N1ws6TlAxqL/Di8w9GFLWNTr+zNLEmpU6UWcBqt3mdUfGWS8F+JLq3gVWPSRHkHBjxP CRVAFMUyC5R7HnjprXLC8FhrV7eow6u5U294hjr0RwoaJsJMug89OohDXUItG8C/6meZ DaEGEsXQpTqlZU3GhtUenKgqmjmiezPX6ujnDpEE4Hcafu5Juxi8GYcnb5RT3v6ml+Iq MVHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AA+aEWYcHIaLQvXAKH1r8QlIdDlTEMGvmgohR7kIac3tFdL/z/uuUd+N 2YoOnRyUSqar3epGqAvLU6iL156xCBfENiaQxotRV0U= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AFSGD/VGjtJoRjgvFmmZ8HZB8trtFoUpIeUXBQ2IK7pjHhtXtGmJiwlenck70qqG5JnXzeYPnAKWOxLJ7sNXdApw868= X-Received: by 2002:aed:2dc5:: with SMTP id i63mr10239124qtd.173.1544397028982; Sun, 09 Dec 2018 15:10:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2018 07:10:16 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil, To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004e1450057c9ef4fc" --0000000000004e1450057c9ef4fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Correction on race parts web. https://www.justraceparts.com.au/ Andrew On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 7:04 am, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Neil, In Aus I=E2=80=99ve found Justraceparts.com in Qld good for quality= sensors, > their Egt sensors are $26 rated to 1300c. Have not tried their instrument > display though as I just connect to my Efis & Em2. > Andrew > > On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 6:24 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Who was it on the list that was using a Maximite for instrumentation? >> Shouldn't be too difficult to add a temperature reference & order Chines= e >> probes from ebay. >> >> Charlie >> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_-5896388482615714034_m_-8113348852634777633_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-= 4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:30 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Bobby, >>> >>> Only reason for an addition to the fueltech is >>> neatness, but at that cost a stand alone EGT is attractive.Currently >>> investigating as freight is the killer from the USA. Need a local supp= lier, >>> >>> Neil. >>> On 12/10/2018 8:08 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >>> >>> Neil, >>> >>> >>> >>> I have flown an Eaton MP90 4th gen super charger for a little over 500 >>> hours. No intercooler with the super charger. Turbo FWF is in the works= and >>> will have an intercooler. I needed a wider compressor map at a lower PR= for >>> takeoff than the TO4-50 . I ended up purchasing a Garret GT3076R w/ Tia= l >>> 1.06 SS housing. I would have preferred a journal bearing turbo but thi= s >>> one is ball bearing. >>> >>> >>> >>> Do you have a reason for added EGT=E2=80=99s to the fueltech vs an airc= raft >>> engine monitor / efis? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> ] >>> *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2018 2:47 AM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil, >>> >>> >>> >>> Bobby, >>> >>> Yes I have the wide band 02, but when I used the >>> microtech which was the reason I ditched it it was to me impossible to = tune >>> properly. Then Microtech refused to answer phone calls or were gone to= a >>> drag race somewhere--- all queries were to be done by internet. With >>> microtech as I said before the mixture knob did nothing except occupy >>> another hole in the dash. EGTs in excess of 1850 degrees were easily >>> reached. >>> >>> Long story short I left Microtech and bought the fueltech. Much easier >>> to tune and actually have backup as required. Did not add an EGT as >>> nothing seemed to change with the microtech, so simply slept better not >>> knowing what the EGT's actually were. >>> >>> Can add EGT to the fueltech but another $1000 AUD. May have to go that >>> way as intend to get to 8000 RPM if required >>> >>> Today at low 30's degrees my water was on the thermostat at 95 degrees = C >>> and oil around 90. Saw your temps and had a heart attack until I reali= sed >>> you are farenheit. >>> >>> What turbo do you run and have you an intercooler? >>> >>> Will get to check out the ag turbos shortly as there are hundreds of >>> them around here. Will get to weigh one shortly. >>> >>> Neil. >>> >>> On 12/5/2018 9:00 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >>> >>> Neil, >>> >>> >>> >>> Do you have a wideband O2? I have to run in the low 11=E2=80=99s at fu= ll power >>> and under boost for takeoff. 7000 rpm / 30-48=E2=80=9D MP to keep egt= =E2=80=99s around >>> 1600F. Typical cruise between 4800 =E2=80=93 5200 rpm / <30 =E2=80=9C = MP with F/A 15.8:1 >>> brings EGT=E2=80=99s into the 1500=E2=80=99s. With an intercooler I wou= ld expect F/A in the >>> 12=E2=80=99s will keep egt=E2=80=99s below 1600 but that=E2=80=99s just= a guess. I have seen EGT=E2=80=99s >>> at or below 1475F on cold days at altitude. The only time I run >>> stoichiometric is in the pattern and low MP. >>> >>> >>> >>> *Information from Pro Formula Mazda * >>> >>> >>> >>> *Engine Vitals: Exhaust Gas Temperatures *Exhaust Gas Temperatures >>> (EGTs) are the second most important tuning and troubleshooting channel >>> next to Lambda. EGTs reflect on the injector balance between the front = and >>> rear rotor Reflects misfires through high readings accompanied by norma= l >>> lambda Decline in engine performance can be evidenced by the rate of >>> temperature acceleration between the rotors during a long pull =E2=80= =93 gapping >>> Emphasis needs put on the condition of the EGTs =E2=80=93 low reading s= ensors are >>> beginning to fail. In order to have an accurate assessment of the >>> performance, EGT sensors must be replaced often. Generally, one EGT sen= sor >>> is used per rotor. One sensor bung should be welded on the each the out= er >>> exhaust pipes 3=E2=80=9D from the header flange (the center pipe usuall= y does not >>> receive a sensor). The sensor depth should be enough to where the tip o= f >>> the sensor is in the centerline of the exhaust flow. *Operational >>> Range: Front Rotor: 1450F =E2=80=93 1600F, Rear Rotor: 1400F =E2=80=93 = 1550F* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Engine Vitals: Lambda * >>> >>> Lambda is the measure of the amount of oxygen in the exhaust stream. Th= e >>> value expressed is a percentage of the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio >>> 14.7:1. >>> >>> Air/fuel ratio can be calculated by multiplying the lambda value >>> monitored by data system by 14.7 >>> >>> (ex: .90 Lambda translates as (.9 x 14.7 =3D )13.23 Air/fuel ratio >>> >>> *Operating Range =3D .87 - .91, aim for .90* >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Bobby >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net >>> ] >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:30 PM >>> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >>> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil, >>> >>> >>> >>> Ok, interesting stuff, but how do you keep the exhaust temp below 1600 >>> degrees without losing a lot of power? I no longer have an EGT as it j= ust >>> worried me with 1800 degrees and the cost of burnt off egt probes. Fro= m >>> memory 1600 degrees goes out the window at about 6000 rpm or less? >>> >>> Neil. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/4/2018 2:30 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote: >>> >>> Hi Andrew, I know next to nothing about turbo technology so have stayed >>> clear of them; IIRC this is the first time I=E2=80=99ve heard of using = a turbo from >>> the agricultural industry and advice to stay clear of the automotive ty= pe >>> ... seems to make sense =E2=80=93 tractors use turbos that last for dec= ades. >>> >>> Jeff (13B, RD1-C, 144 hrs) >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* >>> *Sent:* December-03-18 5:14 AM >>> *Subject:* Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil, >>> >>> >>> >>> Neil, Type Turbo selection Into search of flyrotary archives, >>> you=E2=80=99ll get about 30 posts from 2002 to 13 that are worth readin= g, other >>> searches will give more. >>> >>> >>> >>> Basically you want something the size of a T04 60-1, keep the A/R >1, >>> something like 1.15 or 1.30 >>> >>> T04=E2=80=99s are plentiful from all the older diesels like 2wd tractor= s from >>> last century. you probably got a few parked up around you that will sti= ll >>> be servicable. If you can find one without a intercooler on it, chances= are >>> that it might have the right compressor. Otherwise they are easy to cha= nge. >>> >>> Steer clear of automotive turbo=E2=80=99s, they will overspeed at altit= ude & >>> disintegrate, need waste gates & blow off valves. Stuff thats not requi= red >>> on an aeroplane. >>> >>> >>> >>> When installing. Put a normally open solonoid valve in the oil supply >>> line. Allows you to close the oil supply if the turbo blows its seal. >>> >>> >>> >>> Always bugged me why turbo shops charge so much for such a simple part. >>> >>> >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>> >>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html >>> >>> >> >> Virus-free. >> www.avast.com >> >> <#m_-5896388482615714034_m_-8113348852634777633_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-= 4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> > -- > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag > --=20 Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag --0000000000004e1450057c9ef4fc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Correction on race parts web.=C2=A0

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 7:04 am, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
Neil= , In Aus I=E2=80=99ve found Justraceparts.com in Qld good for quality senso= rs, their Egt sensors are $26 rated to 1300c. Have not tried their instrume= nt display though as I just connect to my Efis & Em2.
Andrew

On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 at 6:24 am, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net> wrote:
Who was it on the = list that was using a Maximite for instrumentation?=C2=A0 Shouldn't be = too difficult to add a temperature reference & order Chinese probes fro= m ebay.=C2=A0
<= br>
Charlie

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com
On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 3:30 PM= Neil Unger 12348un= g@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Bobby,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Only reason for an additio= n to the fueltech is neatness, but at that cost a stand alone EGT is attractive.Currently investigating as freight is the killer from the USA.=C2=A0 Need a local supplier,

Neil.

On 12/10/2018 8:08 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
=20 =20 =20

Neil,

=C2=A0<= /u>

I have flown an Eaton MP90 4th gen super charger for a little over 500 hours. No intercooler with the super charger. Turbo FWF is in the works and will have an intercooler. I needed a wider compressor map at a lower PR for takeoff than the TO4-50 . I ended up purchasing a Garret GT3076R w/ Tial=C2=A0 1.06 SS housing. I would have preferred a journal bearing turbo but this one is ball bearing. <= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

Do you have a reason for added EGT=E2=80=99s to the fueltech vs an aircraft engine monitor / efis?

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

Bobby

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0<= /u>

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2018 2:47 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil,

=C2=A0

Bobby,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Yes I have the wide band 02, = but when I used the microtech which was the reason I ditched it it was to me impossible to tune properly.=C2=A0 Then Microtech refused to answer phone calls or were gone to a drag race somewhere--- all queries were to be done by internet.=C2=A0 With microtech as = I said before the mixture knob did nothing except occupy another hole in the dash.=C2=A0 EGTs in excess of 1850 degrees were easil= y reached.

Long story short I left Microtech and bought the fueltech.=C2=A0 Much easier to tune and actually have backup as required.=C2=A0 D= id not add an EGT as nothing seemed to change with the microtech, so simply slept better not knowing what the EGT's actually were.

Can add EGT to the fueltech but another $1000 AUD.=C2=A0 May hav= e to go that way as intend to get to 8000 RPM if required=

Today at low 30's degrees my water was on the thermostat at 95 degrees C and oil around 90.=C2=A0 Saw your temps and had a heart attack until I realised you are farenheit.

What turbo do you run and have you an intercooler?=

Will get to check out the ag turbos shortly as there are hundreds of them around here.=C2=A0 Will get to weigh one shortly= .

=C2=A0 Neil.

On 12/5/2018 9:00 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:

Neil,=

=C2=A0

Do you have a wideband O2?=C2=A0 I have to run in the low 11=E2= =80=99s at full power and under boost for takeoff. 7000 rpm / 30-48=E2= =80=9D MP to keep egt=E2=80=99s around 1600F. Typical cruise between= 4800 =E2=80=93 5200 rpm =C2=A0/ <30 =E2=80=9C MP with F/A 15.8:= 1 brings EGT=E2=80=99s into the 1500=E2=80=99s. With an intercooler I would expect F= /A in the 12=E2=80=99s will keep egt=E2=80=99s below 1600 but that= =E2=80=99s just a guess. I have seen EGT=E2=80=99s at or below 1475F on cold da= ys at altitude. The only time I run stoichiometric is in the pattern and low MP.

=C2=A0

Information from Pro Formula Mazda

=C2=A0

Engine Vitals: Exhaust Gas Temperatures Exhaust Gas Temperatures (EGTs) are the second most important tuning and troubleshooting channel next to Lambda. EGTs reflect on the injector balance between the front and rear rotor Reflects misfires through high readings accompanied by normal lambda Decline in engine performance can be evidenced by the rate of temperature acceleration between the rotors during a long pull =E2=80=93 ga= pping Emphasis needs put on the condition of the EGTs =E2=80=93 low reading sensors are beginning to fail. In order to have an accurate assessment of the performance, EGT sensors must be replaced often. Generally, one EGT sensor is used per rotor. One sensor bung should be welded on the each the outer exhaust pipes 3=E2=80=9D from the header flange (the center pip= e usually does not receive a sensor). The sensor depth should be enough to where the tip of the sensor is in the centerline of the exhaust flow. Operational Range: Front Rotor: 1450F =E2=80=93 1600F, Rear Rotor: 1400F =E2=80=93 155= 0F

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Engine Vitals: Lambda

Lambda is the measure of the amount of oxygen in the exhaust stream. The value expressed is a percentage of the stoichiometric air/fuel ratio 14.7:1. =

Air/fuel ratio can be calculated by multiplying the lambda value monitored by data system by 14.7

(ex: .90 Lambda translates as (.9 x 14.7 =3D )13.23 Air/fuel ratio

Operating Range =3D .87 - .91, aim for .90

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Bobby

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From:<= /span> Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lanc= aironline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2018 1:30 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil,

=C2=A0

Ok, interesting stuff, but how do you keep the exhaust temp below 1600 degrees without losing a lot of power?=C2=A0 I no longer have an EGT as it just worried me with 1800 degrees and the cost of burnt off egt probes.=C2=A0 From memory 1600 degrees goes out the window at about 6000 rpm or less?=C2=A0

Neil.

=C2=A0

On 12/4/2018 2:30 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote:

Hi Andrew, I know next to nothing about turbo technology so have stayed clear of them; IIRC this is the first time I=E2=80=99ve heard of using a turbo from the agricultural industry and advice to stay clear of the automotive type ... seems to make sense =E2=80=93 tractors use turbos that = last for decades.

Jeff (13B, RD1-C, 144 hrs)

=C2=A0=

From:
Sent: December-03-18 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Hey Neil,

=C2=A0

Neil, Type =C2=A0 =C2=A0Turbo select= ion =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Into search of flyrotary archives, you=E2=80=99ll get abo= ut 30 posts from 2002 to 13 that are worth reading, other searches will give more.

=C2=A0

Basically you want something the size of a T04 60-1, keep the A/R >1, something like 1.15 or 1.30

T04=E2=80=99s are plentiful from all t= he older diesels like 2wd tractors from last century. you probably got a few parked up around you that will still be servicable. If you can find one without a intercooler on it, chances are that it might have the right compressor. Otherwise they are easy to change.

Steer clear of automotive turbo=E2=80= =99s, they will overspeed at altitude & disintegrate, need waste gates & blow off valves. Stuff thats not required on an aeroplane.

=C2=A0

When installing. Put a normally open solonoid valve in the oil supply line. Allows you to close the oil supply if the turbo blows its seal.=

=C2=A0

Always bugged me why turbo shops charge so much for such a simple part.

=C2=A0

Andrew

=C2=A0

=C2=A0



--
Homepage:=C2=A0 http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:=C2=A0=C2=A0 http://mail.lan=
caironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
--0000000000004e1450057c9ef4fc--