X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UschDK4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=2TVAWPfvoq89XoUytuG/Dg==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=mYbeeNDn3bAbbiSV120A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=ZUE82dt0LgPR23hIr1MA:9 a=oDRz-_ywYTygnGI_:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f175.google.com ([209.85.215.175] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.9) with ESMTPS id 11868293 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:48:54 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.175; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f175.google.com with SMTP id d72so1139828pga.9 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:48:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=5uY5wxjPTWZ/TnrhHriWRxqqGj/ves3vIBohY+YnlU4=; b=D+FhU9CWuA9H5lwU52WKT1/TahwTiWLQT3rWG9AhLEtnUj7t6Ccc8ne5ggxWaJ/+fr pyIEuJCNReiCTSR0zb9P6XfrG+4WKqjyYbHSGqRtyS1JEoaQxNfsKg5jlHLVlyhSj8xn M9jfZes16roy2qXs4owAlKdx0OEU/f22xzXMcvvYgGfmq9T3ctSw4X8HSK1je8zrHSmN ca8V65bVOnNgDAWv/tuaI758pfh1XlGyMO6IwIv1UPTIJwWRYybYENJE28HDhp2vzf9K ZDWk3kZ9mnmDNSpj9Vyng2C+pgKdAnWKO+/1DfUHNyX6Ce5h2+LWY/NWIwSz3v+aQ2gq 48Eg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=5uY5wxjPTWZ/TnrhHriWRxqqGj/ves3vIBohY+YnlU4=; b=G6vbwx2ZmZPZ5i/rUHHvQoZjt0BOhcZZjTlB+G2GeiJLXjgrrIktcYV+fIBpoVEt8V 3FVlCUrJ7ql98lhmYjMKXmbrhpX9/2xugiUpwUCTh0x6jw5uj9+LNY5ANHUL1uES8Aa8 Nd1bNCRd35gh79CG18F9gaA4OY79AGrANrpQ62jZhW9WilV6ioX5eE4ogfUxhYGGvdue jrbEdsptXKfxiL6ejWNNnxmkJtprpfhmLeP0jSCqaaFdGbW4GwOvkFrXjG15xAQqylal hNNU+kDsiJZWdTI44tWulh+gq4x6Jo5y0eEJ1Uegh7IXn8ey39AWL1fZjDtJovyywfWR ZGkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gI6Shq1zDMEzYTMKoxgR+NmfMbR5aPj14BoS3BtAhZA/g7/xhAw l6idBXk5nZxX/ZPytT5c9tjwKcIV X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5fRE5TEoIedO6oLjK7p/0WpnTaVxmwqQ2IaL/nh0u52iUY/obawyqtuGAmxxJu90eIpY7og6g== X-Received: by 2002:a63:f412:: with SMTP id g18mr2165292pgi.262.1542055716610; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:48:36 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.103] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y88-v6sm22893679pfd.104.2018.11.12.12.48.34 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:48:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <7e60efff-3c65-df57-d87b-d6820606be09@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 07:48:32 +1100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------388DB330E0F78BAD11F37C2E" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------388DB330E0F78BAD11F37C2E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Charlie,                  Sounds simple, but to cut the depression in the plate accurately will take a lot of setup time.  Then whatever depression you cut will have to be added to the nylon snubber washer and the whole gear train will be moved backwards as well. Couls end up time consuming and very messy IMHO. Neil. On 11/13/2018 2:53 AM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: > Could the same effect be achieved by milling a depression in the 1/2" > plate? How thick are the thicker washers; 2 mm? If so, mill a 1mm > depression in the plate, and replace the thin 1 mm washer with a 3rd 2 > mm washer. IIRC, Locktite makes a 'stickum' that could keep the washer > embedded in the plate, so it doesn't un-nest when the shaft is > unloaded. Would this excessively compromise the strength of the plate? > > Charlie > > On 11/12/2018 7:10 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >> >> Neil, >> >> Looking good. The cup ID may need to be a few thousands over 52mm so >> not sure if there’s room for a mounting spigot. Depending on material >> thickness,  the cup will fully enclose one of the 2MM bearings and >> part of the 3.5mm thrust washer. Possibly add oil path grooves to the >> front and rear of the cup at 45 degree clocking. Depending on the >> material thickness the channels may need to be offset. Oil channels >> may not be necessary. >> >> Too early for wine but well caffeinated! >> >> Bobby >> >> *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >> *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 2:26 AM >> *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft >> *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer >> >> Kelly,  I really should not draw freehand --- see if you can make >> sense of the scribble.  Neil. >> >> On 11/12/2018 4:15 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >> Neil and All, >> >>     Not sure I am visualizing the shape of the of the cup to >> encapsulate the >> >> 1mm thrust washer but would certainly be a customer if Randy >> Kempf were >> >> to gear up to produce them........How about sketch of the >> proposed shape >> >> for those of us that are somewhat mechanically inept...........<:) >> >> Kelly Troyer >> >> On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:52 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> >> Bobby, >> >>                         Sorry I misunderstood you. By all >> means contact >> Randy as he may be able to fit you in.  He has a complete >> reduction >> drive of mine there to measure,  and certainly has the >> machinery to make >> same. >> >> Neil. >> >> >> On 11/12/2018 7:41 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net >> wrote: >> > Neil >> > >> > I was asking if Randy would consider making the 1mm washer >> mounting cup. I have a chip detector but removed it due to >> the 1mm washer / shaft wear creating fuzz every few hours and >> setting off an alert.  I also measure the gearbox oil temp >> output. >> > >> > Bobby >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > >> >> On Nov 11, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> Bobby, >> >> >> >>                      Another way is >> what I did, was to put a temp sensor in the pSRU which will >> let you know if all is not well with elevated temps.  This >> is standard in heavy trucks,  One in the gear box, and one >> each in both diffs.  Simple and effective. >> >> >> >> Neil. >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 11/12/2018 6:58 AM, Neil Unger wrote: >> >>> Bobby, >> >>> >> >>>                       I put a magnet >> in the return line to catch any metal, but only got the >> "fuzz" you are talking about so simply removed it. >> >>> >> >>> Will discuss with Randy re stocking a chip detector.  >> That will be his commercial decision. >> >>> >> >>> Neil. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> On 11/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net >> wrote: >> >>>> Neil, >> >>>> >> >>>> That should work. I believe Tracy has suggested the same >> solution. It would allow for replacing the 1mm washer if >> needed. I’m thinking aluminum instead of steel to minimize >> any wear on the washer outer edge if it rotated. I would like >> to start using my gearbox chip detector again. The 1mm washer >> shaft contact caused enough fuzz to activate it every few >> hours so I removed it. Would this be an item Randy Kempf >> would consider supplying? We need four in Austin TX and I’m >> sure others would retrofit if the part was available.  The >> cup OD would need to increased but I think we have plenty of >> room to accommodate modification. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks, >> >>>> Bobby >> >>>> >> >>>> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> >> >>>>> On Nov 10, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Neil Unger >> 12348ung@gmail.com >> > > wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Bobby, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >>   Tried my bearing blokes with no joy, over that size they >> are all 1.5mm. There is another way however if there is >> room.  I suggest a small alloy (or steel) "cup" with >> mounting flanges like the washer you want, except in the >> middle the 1mm washer fits flat against the mounting plate as >> usual, and the cup then tapers upwards (after the 1mm thick >> retaining hole at the bottom ) and out slightly (for say >> another 3mm?) to prevent the 1mm thrust washer to "jump out >> of bed" and moving sideways. If it does move forward the >> taper will force it back into place when the load comes on >> again.  My $0.02 worth, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Neil. >> >> > > > > Virus-free. www.avast.com > > > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --------------388DB330E0F78BAD11F37C2E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Charlie,

                 Sounds simple, but to cut the depression in the plate accurately will take a lot of setup time.  Then whatever depression you cut will have to be added to the nylon snubber washer and the whole gear train will be moved backwards as well.  Couls end up time consuming and very messy IMHO.

Neil.


On 11/13/2018 2:53 AM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:
Could the same effect be achieved by milling a depression in the 1/2" plate? How thick are the thicker washers; 2 mm? If so, mill a 1mm depression in the plate, and replace the thin 1 mm washer with a 3rd 2 mm washer. IIRC, Locktite makes a 'stickum' that could keep the washer embedded in the plate, so it doesn't un-nest when the shaft is unloaded. Would this excessively compromise the strength of the plate?

Charlie

On 11/12/2018 7:10 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:

Neil,

 

Looking good. The cup ID may need to be a few thousands over 52mm so not sure if there’s room for a mounting spigot. Depending on material thickness,  the cup will fully enclose one of the 2MM bearings and part of the 3.5mm thrust washer. Possibly add oil path grooves to the front and rear of the cup at 45 degree clocking. Depending on the material thickness the channels may need to be offset. Oil channels may not be necessary.

 

Too early for wine but well caffeinated!

 

Bobby

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 2:26 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer

 

Kelly,  I really should not draw freehand --- see if you can make sense of the scribble.  Neil.

 

On 11/12/2018 4:15 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com wrote:

Neil and All,

    Not sure I am visualizing the shape of the of the cup to encapsulate the 

1mm thrust washer but would certainly be a customer if Randy Kempf were

to gear up to produce them........How about sketch of the proposed shape

for those of us that are somewhat mechanically inept...........<:)

 

Kelly Troyer 

 

On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:52 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bobby,

                        Sorry I misunderstood you.  By all means contact
Randy as he may be able to fit you in.  He has a complete reduction
drive of mine there to measure,  and certainly has the machinery to make
same.

Neil.


On 11/12/2018 7:41 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
> Neil
>
> I was asking if Randy would consider making the 1mm washer mounting cup. I have a chip detector but removed it due to the 1mm washer / shaft wear creating fuzz every few hours and setting off an alert.  I also measure the gearbox oil temp output.
>
> Bobby
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 11, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Bobby,
>>
>>                       Another way is what I did, was to put a temp sensor in the pSRU which will let you know if all is not well with elevated temps.  This is standard in heavy trucks,  One in the gear box, and one each in both diffs.  Simple and effective.
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>>> On 11/12/2018 6:58 AM, Neil Unger wrote:
>>> Bobby,
>>>
>>>                       I put a magnet in the return line to catch any metal, but only got the "fuzz" you are talking about so simply removed it.
>>>
>>> Will discuss with Randy re stocking a chip detector.  That will be his commercial decision.
>>>
>>> Neil.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
>>>> Neil,
>>>>
>>>> That should work. I believe Tracy has suggested the same solution. It would allow for replacing the 1mm washer if needed. I’m thinking aluminum instead of steel to minimize any wear on the washer outer edge if it rotated. I would like to start using my gearbox chip detector again. The 1mm washer shaft contact caused enough fuzz to activate it every few hours so I removed it. Would this be an item Randy Kempf would consider supplying? We need four in Austin TX and I’m sure others would retrofit if the part was available.  The cup OD would need to increased but I think we have plenty of room to accommodate modification.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bobby
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 10, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bobby,
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Tried my bearing blokes with no joy, over that size they are all 1.5mm.  There is another way however if there is room.  I suggest a small alloy (or steel) "cup" with mounting flanges like the washer you want, except in the middle the 1mm washer fits flat against the mounting plate as usual, and the cup then tapers upwards (after the 1mm thick retaining hole at the bottom ) and out slightly (for say another 3mm?) to prevent the 1mm thrust washer to "jump out of bed" and moving sideways. If it does move forward the taper will force it back into place when the load comes on again.  My $0.02 worth,
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil.


 

 

 



Virus-free. www.avast.com

--------------388DB330E0F78BAD11F37C2E--