X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UschDK4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=sSJN1N8SuLI3PR48Yftmbg==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=8OPCqpwZyFrx8I4oAz8A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=WjjHXjyNfuw67P6lcEgA:9 a=q4M3eMexI_RCKVly:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f173.google.com ([209.85.215.173] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.9) with ESMTPS id 11868346 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 15:44:47 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.173; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f173.google.com with SMTP id 17so4323204pgg.1 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:44:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=4LoULGbhi/ELWl2DQTP3fBWm+PGUMIP55og4adRWklU=; b=GlfNkZVyT1m21rA7yFYIAnRGKWPOkFo7it7gU/6wquYEl+UHCwP/Sae5epw60iYDRN sAHtNmstfET/B58xVYUwdzS0YNU/mAdf58/VbeLDaAqKhPqVJRRr1yi0fJBYkGVNCNA6 TCcxBvCcO3azJHCy4vgyJvx8qBW7WEDC6kNEljdlE1wb2maIF/EvvGDbSJk1LzhWRT/v TDYvlUSQxDFRbBg2R5VqO6ILRbO1+6EoDF7t7ylKpK0iszT/6eNykvNi2Ya7DYW95Rpi GhoDBqihwV5mBi95mjBoYcRbLVVJd5Zt4Dung0RpF+wPKpamX2c8F6TGKwGVPoPYK2Z0 hLhg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=4LoULGbhi/ELWl2DQTP3fBWm+PGUMIP55og4adRWklU=; b=BM2wIAFmRQhrQmypEIHWO1hD9CfTxuED1XObvFMj7FUcz4p+oY3DHcOlnYOVeJPXBQ h8T+EKruHe3PgrpiT7oRN1Zlnue03mn4gk0TubvDH54WzDI1YxADSg03ypk/YwEwxozV JsxyLLIpZdq42Oi3VMKv2U5VEl67Kyhi3cCPPorEa/9c3X+/T8/ncLzSs4ifL0UKUsSR 5dc01xq0qSXzmxcYPLj8CJri5w16xcU37zZmI0WhvtsfIojc7NjJ3vH4duamO82np3wT i2ycWouhw8b+8YsjQryxiX3smef2SOEhCJB3Qw68+lpPUiEgjAG3wEz8Odk9t3ZnNXQv q7Nw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gLqR/ccBOSfIEe899b6vleZHNPqg4xmzFTwrwdT541XdlTvE+DE KO1dfylrT9K8Ud5FmFUC8xu4EFoC X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5cmrHNh3XeJGy+DP6BVQ1rYyO48ArIC9WfpqtE9dbfg/dB06xImkaAI0cb4Lbmf1t2r2voZAA== X-Received: by 2002:a62:cdc1:: with SMTP id o184-v6mr2386098pfg.181.1542055468879; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:44:28 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.103] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u2-v6sm19146773pfn.50.2018.11.12.12.44.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 12:44:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <62750ec4-2c2b-42f1-6053-55b234f3bc6b@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2018 07:44:23 +1100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------888E273CD8E6CF35C258CAA8" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------888E273CD8E6CF35C258CAA8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bobby,                        In reality the "cup" can be a piece of 3mm or 1/8" flat steel with the taper and parallel section for the 1mm washer machined into it. You are only trying to hold the 1mm washer in place.  Will still need the disposable mandrel to ensure it is center when mounting.  Loctite the 1mm thrust washer in certainly and it is the simplest I can come up with.  To machine the 3mm plate simply tack weld to a round pipe (only need 2 inches of pipe), so it can be held in a 3 jaw chuck. The pipe has to be cut true in the lathe or it will "walk" in which case you may well have to start with a much thicker piece of plate and then have to machine both sides to get true.  Lathe the outside flat (3mm plate) , machine the hole in the center (remember the taper is on the other side of the flat machined side) and then cut to shape with an angle grinder.  The mandrel is just a piece of solid or heavy walled pipe machined to size, to hold all central while drilling and screwing together.  Then becomes a paperweight. Sounds simple like always, but count on 2 hours in a lathe. At 3mm thick plate will not need oil grooves, suggest 4 mounting screws, which will give you a square plate, (easier to scribe the 4 mounting screws) and loctite the "Cup" or plate to the back alloy plate as well. At least fill in around the screws with loctite to prevent any sideways movement., Neil. On 11/13/2018 12:10 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: > > Neil, > > Looking good. The cup ID may need to be a few thousands over 52mm so > not sure if there’s room for a mounting spigot. Depending on material > thickness,  the cup will fully enclose one of the 2MM bearings and > part of the 3.5mm thrust washer. Possibly add oil path grooves to the > front and rear of the cup at 45 degree clocking. Depending on the > material thickness the channels may need to be offset. Oil channels > may not be necessary. > > Too early for wine but well caffeinated! > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 2:26 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer > > Kelly,  I really should not draw freehand --- see if you can make > sense of the scribble.  Neil. > > On 11/12/2018 4:15 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com > wrote: > > Neil and All, > >     Not sure I am visualizing the shape of the of the cup to > encapsulate the > > 1mm thrust washer but would certainly be a customer if Randy Kempf > were > > to gear up to produce them........How about sketch of the proposed > shape > > for those of us that are somewhat mechanically inept...........<:) > > Kelly Troyer > > On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:52 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Bobby, > >                         Sorry I misunderstood you.  By all > means contact > Randy as he may be able to fit you in.  He has a complete > reduction > drive of mine there to measure,  and certainly has the > machinery to make > same. > > Neil. > > > On 11/12/2018 7:41 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net > wrote: > > Neil > > > > I was asking if Randy would consider making the 1mm washer > mounting cup. I have a chip detector but removed it due to the > 1mm washer / shaft wear creating fuzz every few hours and > setting off an alert.  I also measure the gearbox oil temp output. > > > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On Nov 11, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> > >> Bobby, > >> > >>                      Another way is > what I did, was to put a temp sensor in the pSRU which will > let you know if all is not well with elevated temps.  This is > standard in heavy trucks,  One in the gear box, and one each > in both diffs.  Simple and effective. > >> > >> Neil. > >> > >> > >>> On 11/12/2018 6:58 AM, Neil Unger wrote: > >>> Bobby, > >>> > >>>                       I put a magnet > in the return line to catch any metal, but only got the "fuzz" > you are talking about so simply removed it. > >>> > >>> Will discuss with Randy re stocking a chip detector.  > That will be his commercial decision. > >>> > >>> Neil. > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 11/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net > wrote: > >>>> Neil, > >>>> > >>>> That should work. I believe Tracy has suggested the same > solution. It would allow for replacing the 1mm washer if > needed. I’m thinking aluminum instead of steel to minimize > any wear on the washer outer edge if it rotated. I would like > to start using my gearbox chip detector again. The 1mm washer > shaft contact caused enough fuzz to activate it every few > hours so I removed it. Would this be an item Randy Kempf would > consider supplying? We need four in Austin TX and I’m sure > others would retrofit if the part was available.  The cup OD > would need to increased but I think we have plenty of room to > accommodate modification. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Bobby > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>>> On Nov 10, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Neil Unger > 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Bobby, > >>>>> > >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >   Tried my bearing blokes with no joy, over that size they > are all 1.5mm.  There is another way however if there is > room.  I suggest a small alloy (or steel) "cup" with > mounting flanges like the washer you want, except in the > middle the 1mm washer fits flat against the mounting plate as > usual, and the cup then tapers upwards (after the 1mm thick > retaining hole at the bottom ) and out slightly (for say > another 3mm?) to prevent the 1mm thrust washer to "jump out of > bed" and moving sideways. If it does move forward the taper > will force it back into place when the load comes on > again.  My $0.02 worth, > >>>>> > >>>>> Neil. > > --------------888E273CD8E6CF35C258CAA8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Bobby,

                       In reality the "cup" can be a piece of 3mm or 1/8" flat steel with the taper and parallel section for the 1mm washer machined into it. You are only trying to hold the 1mm washer in place.  Will still need the disposable mandrel to ensure it is center when mounting.  Loctite the 1mm thrust washer in certainly and it is the simplest I can come up with.  To machine the 3mm plate simply tack weld to a round pipe (only need 2 inches of pipe), so it can be held in a 3 jaw chuck. The pipe has to be cut true in the lathe or it will "walk" in which case you may well have to start with a much thicker piece of plate and then have to machine both sides to get true.  Lathe the outside flat (3mm plate) , machine the hole in the center (remember the taper is on the other side of the flat machined side) and then cut to shape with an angle grinder.  The mandrel is just a piece of solid or heavy walled pipe machined to size, to hold all central while drilling and screwing together.  Then becomes a paperweight.

Sounds simple like always, but count on 2 hours in a lathe. 

At 3mm thick plate will not need oil grooves, suggest 4 mounting screws, which will give you a square plate, (easier to scribe the 4 mounting screws) and loctite the "Cup" or plate to the back alloy plate as well. At least fill in around the screws with loctite to prevent any sideways movement.,

Neil.


On 11/13/2018 12:10 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:

Neil,

 

Looking good. The cup ID may need to be a few thousands over 52mm so not sure if there’s room for a mounting spigot. Depending on material thickness,  the cup will fully enclose one of the 2MM bearings and part of the 3.5mm thrust washer. Possibly add oil path grooves to the front and rear of the cup at 45 degree clocking. Depending on the material thickness the channels may need to be offset. Oil channels may not be necessary.

 

Too early for wine but well caffeinated!

 

Bobby

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 2:26 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer

 

Kelly,  I really should not draw freehand --- see if you can make sense of the scribble.  Neil.

 

On 11/12/2018 4:15 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com wrote:

Neil and All,

    Not sure I am visualizing the shape of the of the cup to encapsulate the 

1mm thrust washer but would certainly be a customer if Randy Kempf were

to gear up to produce them........How about sketch of the proposed shape

for those of us that are somewhat mechanically inept...........<:)

 

Kelly Troyer 

 

On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:52 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bobby,

                        Sorry I misunderstood you.  By all means contact
Randy as he may be able to fit you in.  He has a complete reduction
drive of mine there to measure,  and certainly has the machinery to make
same.

Neil.


On 11/12/2018 7:41 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
> Neil
>
> I was asking if Randy would consider making the 1mm washer mounting cup. I have a chip detector but removed it due to the 1mm washer / shaft wear creating fuzz every few hours and setting off an alert.  I also measure the gearbox oil temp output.
>
> Bobby
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 11, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Bobby,
>>
>>                       Another way is what I did, was to put a temp sensor in the pSRU which will let you know if all is not well with elevated temps.  This is standard in heavy trucks,  One in the gear box, and one each in both diffs.  Simple and effective.
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>>> On 11/12/2018 6:58 AM, Neil Unger wrote:
>>> Bobby,
>>>
>>>                       I put a magnet in the return line to catch any metal, but only got the "fuzz" you are talking about so simply removed it.
>>>
>>> Will discuss with Randy re stocking a chip detector.  That will be his commercial decision.
>>>
>>> Neil.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
>>>> Neil,
>>>>
>>>> That should work. I believe Tracy has suggested the same solution. It would allow for replacing the 1mm washer if needed. I’m thinking aluminum instead of steel to minimize any wear on the washer outer edge if it rotated. I would like to start using my gearbox chip detector again. The 1mm washer shaft contact caused enough fuzz to activate it every few hours so I removed it. Would this be an item Randy Kempf would consider supplying? We need four in Austin TX and I’m sure others would retrofit if the part was available.  The cup OD would need to increased but I think we have plenty of room to accommodate modification.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bobby
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 10, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bobby,
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Tried my bearing blokes with no joy, over that size they are all 1.5mm.  There is another way however if there is room.  I suggest a small alloy (or steel) "cup" with mounting flanges like the washer you want, except in the middle the 1mm washer fits flat against the mounting plate as usual, and the cup then tapers upwards (after the 1mm thick retaining hole at the bottom ) and out slightly (for say another 3mm?) to prevent the 1mm thrust washer to "jump out of bed" and moving sideways. If it does move forward the taper will force it back into place when the load comes on again.  My $0.02 worth,
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil.


 

 

 


--------------888E273CD8E6CF35C258CAA8--