X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UschDK4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=3IhzcBOM8TGjKXwecDa7zg==:117 a=7ZeHUF5TpD32QnDE67vapA==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=2l0p74g3GZ6xQmkZqNYA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=dq8cwASFfkI9SF3fuLEA:9 a=hL7sJKPsiAlYXZ8S:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-yb1-f169.google.com ([209.85.219.169] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.9) with ESMTPS id 11866875 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 10:51:13 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.219.169; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-yb1-f169.google.com with SMTP id o204-v6so4063346yba.9 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:51:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=CTAp2WmxhDE/uHMiel4S055DB8EQhlOAy9TtCk2xW50=; b=gWeo2S3vbalTRfRGzeagPazXsPuchnetrDw2tMn+Qa8TfC/QoOYXu9MF9yaWTR5GoK Ham6MOuIE4PAlLwwVcwKw5qQOlxzk0Zj5bEIMvZbrFxOV5QC334yhfnxxZovjjY3913m jLtQqTlas0lx1n5ms3PK2ueneecJp8W4xys7uTmw+2DMxk8PrQW+ArDMR/HjL/DLmEFA iW3gzjEHr83/DvE0ZOtriLvt+q+NoDzeSpvIfCQzGz+VNq9YkWlId4lPJfSB3RWAe5XM bUHDHWI/BZm1eixpKdp0Qz+kbp+q6Aswlt/TriqZ19haEEvmgCk+KmZfjILizn+9vTN/ wN0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=CTAp2WmxhDE/uHMiel4S055DB8EQhlOAy9TtCk2xW50=; b=Dq+CDj5S1MTgaN61HAsGNx2RjnTKWlW9b6lU60igA5iCI37RBEYH9RJMgQtWUpMj+I 32F6cb+WgHcRRLyInmWSSkfpKRc7awZHzPY4ln2bfUN9CpkqS/QokgL305MSEMJlbcAn Ne6PBqHXlmGafev5Z2Y2WEBwsONen091a3Cte6jL5IzenaQBCYQY2naLHbZomRhlsBv8 rkEpgTwhBoDEOGui6LjuwuQyuDhfCJyAfHgXV0U+8xHaFJ/0V8lcBrAh06QeeGVNo31w kM+Z2rpoZJSTCJLz+pZ6OPPaRi/5lKM24otzEL0a6WBkNVpvTxhUoj7/oxjKRtbqes7E Tpkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJwUdf7Oh6ubE1LK6XUs7CUcVBRm9cyy5wecOnXV374nqV52MzK M7MniUGq5ddOe/2qu8vTzXggwBWJ X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5f3EVYORoEv3MyOf9aFKhdhJY3/zP9UL0Nvi8rXXJJrcnfav23zaD+3Z5wE4iEk86RNgvh0Xg== X-Received: by 2002:a25:6114:: with SMTP id v20-v6mr1355073ybb.437.1542037856684; Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:50:56 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from [192.168.10.217] (mobile-166-170-53-207.mycingular.net. [166.170.53.207]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id r18-v6sm4698392ywa.16.2018.11.12.07.50.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 12 Nov 2018 07:50:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2018 09:53:12 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------EFF23CF28C3D01F525711F18" Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 181112-4, 11/12/2018), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------EFF23CF28C3D01F525711F18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Could the same effect be achieved by milling a depression in the 1/2" plate? How thick are the thicker washers; 2 mm? If so, mill a 1mm depression in the plate, and replace the thin 1 mm washer with a 3rd 2 mm washer. IIRC, Locktite makes a 'stickum' that could keep the washer embedded in the plate, so it doesn't un-nest when the shaft is unloaded. Would this excessively compromise the strength of the plate? Charlie On 11/12/2018 7:10 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: > > Neil, > > Looking good. The cup ID may need to be a few thousands over 52mm so > not sure if there’s room for a mounting spigot. Depending on material > thickness,  the cup will fully enclose one of the 2MM bearings and > part of the 3.5mm thrust washer. Possibly add oil path grooves to the > front and rear of the cup at 45 degree clocking. Depending on the > material thickness the channels may need to be offset. Oil channels > may not be necessary. > > Too early for wine but well caffeinated! > > Bobby > > *From:*Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > *Sent:* Monday, November 12, 2018 2:26 AM > *To:* Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject:* [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer > > Kelly,  I really should not draw freehand --- see if you can make > sense of the scribble.  Neil. > > On 11/12/2018 4:15 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com > wrote: > > Neil and All, > >     Not sure I am visualizing the shape of the of the cup to > encapsulate the > > 1mm thrust washer but would certainly be a customer if Randy Kempf > were > > to gear up to produce them........How about sketch of the proposed > shape > > for those of us that are somewhat mechanically inept...........<:) > > Kelly Troyer > > On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:52 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Bobby, > >                         Sorry I misunderstood you.  By all > means contact > Randy as he may be able to fit you in.  He has a complete > reduction > drive of mine there to measure,  and certainly has the > machinery to make > same. > > Neil. > > > On 11/12/2018 7:41 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net > wrote: > > Neil > > > > I was asking if Randy would consider making the 1mm washer > mounting cup. I have a chip detector but removed it due to the > 1mm washer / shaft wear creating fuzz every few hours and > setting off an alert.  I also measure the gearbox oil temp output. > > > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > >> On Nov 11, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> > >> Bobby, > >> > >>                      Another way is > what I did, was to put a temp sensor in the pSRU which will > let you know if all is not well with elevated temps.  This is > standard in heavy trucks,  One in the gear box, and one each > in both diffs.  Simple and effective. > >> > >> Neil. > >> > >> > >>> On 11/12/2018 6:58 AM, Neil Unger wrote: > >>> Bobby, > >>> > >>>                       I put a magnet > in the return line to catch any metal, but only got the "fuzz" > you are talking about so simply removed it. > >>> > >>> Will discuss with Randy re stocking a chip detector.  > That will be his commercial decision. > >>> > >>> Neil. > >>> > >>> > >>>> On 11/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net > wrote: > >>>> Neil, > >>>> > >>>> That should work. I believe Tracy has suggested the same > solution. It would allow for replacing the 1mm washer if > needed. I’m thinking aluminum instead of steel to minimize > any wear on the washer outer edge if it rotated. I would like > to start using my gearbox chip detector again. The 1mm washer > shaft contact caused enough fuzz to activate it every few > hours so I removed it. Would this be an item Randy Kempf would > consider supplying? We need four in Austin TX and I’m sure > others would retrofit if the part was available.  The cup OD > would need to increased but I think we have plenty of room to > accommodate modification. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks, > >>>> Bobby > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>>> On Nov 10, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Neil Unger > 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Bobby, > >>>>> > >>>>> Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â >   Tried my bearing blokes with no joy, over that size they > are all 1.5mm.  There is another way however if there is > room.  I suggest a small alloy (or steel) "cup" with > mounting flanges like the washer you want, except in the > middle the 1mm washer fits flat against the mounting plate as > usual, and the cup then tapers upwards (after the 1mm thick > retaining hole at the bottom ) and out slightly (for say > another 3mm?) to prevent the 1mm thrust washer to "jump out of > bed" and moving sideways. If it does move forward the taper > will force it back into place when the load comes on > again.  My $0.02 worth, > >>>>> > >>>>> Neil. > > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus --------------EFF23CF28C3D01F525711F18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Could the same effect be achieved by milling a depression in the 1/2" plate? How thick are the thicker washers; 2 mm? If so, mill a 1mm depression in the plate, and replace the thin 1 mm washer with a 3rd 2 mm washer. IIRC, Locktite makes a 'stickum' that could keep the washer embedded in the plate, so it doesn't un-nest when the shaft is unloaded. Would this excessively compromise the strength of the plate?

Charlie

On 11/12/2018 7:10 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:

Neil,

 

Looking good. The cup ID may need to be a few thousands over 52mm so not sure if there’s room for a mounting spigot. Depending on material thickness,  the cup will fully enclose one of the 2MM bearings and part of the 3.5mm thrust washer. Possibly add oil path grooves to the front and rear of the cup at 45 degree clocking. Depending on the material thickness the channels may need to be offset. Oil channels may not be necessary.

 

Too early for wine but well caffeinated!

 

Bobby

 

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2018 2:26 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: 1mm thrust washer

 

Kelly,  I really should not draw freehand --- see if you can make sense of the scribble.  Neil.

 

On 11/12/2018 4:15 PM, Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com wrote:

Neil and All,

    Not sure I am visualizing the shape of the of the cup to encapsulate the 

1mm thrust washer but would certainly be a customer if Randy Kempf were

to gear up to produce them........How about sketch of the proposed shape

for those of us that are somewhat mechanically inept...........<:)

 

Kelly Troyer 

 

On Sun, Nov 11, 2018 at 6:52 PM Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Bobby,

                        Sorry I misunderstood you.  By all means contact
Randy as he may be able to fit you in.  He has a complete reduction
drive of mine there to measure,  and certainly has the machinery to make
same.

Neil.


On 11/12/2018 7:41 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
> Neil
>
> I was asking if Randy would consider making the 1mm washer mounting cup. I have a chip detector but removed it due to the 1mm washer / shaft wear creating fuzz every few hours and setting off an alert.  I also measure the gearbox oil temp output.
>
> Bobby
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Nov 11, 2018, at 3:15 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>
>> Bobby,
>>
>>                       Another way is what I did, was to put a temp sensor in the pSRU which will let you know if all is not well with elevated temps.  This is standard in heavy trucks,  One in the gear box, and one each in both diffs.  Simple and effective.
>>
>> Neil.
>>
>>
>>> On 11/12/2018 6:58 AM, Neil Unger wrote:
>>> Bobby,
>>>
>>>                       I put a magnet in the return line to catch any metal, but only got the "fuzz" you are talking about so simply removed it.
>>>
>>> Will discuss with Randy re stocking a chip detector.  That will be his commercial decision.
>>>
>>> Neil.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 11/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
>>>> Neil,
>>>>
>>>> That should work. I believe Tracy has suggested the same solution. It would allow for replacing the 1mm washer if needed. I’m thinking aluminum instead of steel to minimize any wear on the washer outer edge if it rotated. I would like to start using my gearbox chip detector again. The 1mm washer shaft contact caused enough fuzz to activate it every few hours so I removed it. Would this be an item Randy Kempf would consider supplying? We need four in Austin TX and I’m sure others would retrofit if the part was available.  The cup OD would need to increased but I think we have plenty of room to accommodate modification.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Bobby
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 10, 2018, at 4:01 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bobby,
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Tried my bearing blokes with no joy, over that size they are all 1.5mm.  There is another way however if there is room.  I suggest a small alloy (or steel) "cup" with mounting flanges like the washer you want, except in the middle the 1mm washer fits flat against the mounting plate as usual, and the cup then tapers upwards (after the 1mm thick retaining hole at the bottom ) and out slightly (for say another 3mm?) to prevent the 1mm thrust washer to "jump out of bed" and moving sideways. If it does move forward the taper will force it back into place when the load comes on again.  My $0.02 worth,
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil.


 

 

 



Virus-free. www.avast.com
--------------EFF23CF28C3D01F525711F18--