X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UschDK4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=Q+RT7pemMA8jd7xFDSW77A==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=o2QoyYduAAAA:8 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=on22okXAAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=ZrXLsU_KZJkDphL3kPAA:9 a=nzeBRFI4D8GVIT5r:21 a=jdADvKepbxApLHTl:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qm3EUTm5eBUA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=XKeK8qOKnj5czCiVk7QA:9 a=r9igMZS0qzwr2yKL:21 a=GTD3xSJR2UhjrBQQ:21 a=wj0eY4plYNn4f999:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=uhGSWE4YubS47_sVCAo8:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=S50rnUa8yRbNnh2hyxzf:22 a=GyA-uvUxXSCciAkwuKQO:22 a=NPqpj5bUEVj9vR1HIonK:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pf1-f176.google.com ([209.85.210.176] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.9) with ESMTPS id 11862300 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 15:49:24 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.176; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf1-f176.google.com with SMTP id b11-v6so2466820pfi.5 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:49:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vjpFfY1HK5VuAdz0Y15zEziHkD1ick993seFJFF5Zjk=; b=ZnO0WRyJglyUysIntYjJQsg2kvd9YPs6nQysnWNV6c2rvdYeIw1X01EAdWhYlZhIQB S/4Q88g7sISI6ov8QXscfJ+UXQtx42Vc8JJUp3kh2W7TIWdlYAOlqgwid6AVSIdWlfMt f392i8GQFGk0G+J43h03Izy5Lmdj3LmNc6UfI1wSNdNScIKuXkPAMDxsEUnJhypseNEY SH+4aXSwZX/fzWBH0wkbW+MjT1ecouR9qfq+tqyj3mnJKLqonZlbOrjh1MKi5EqkZI2n oHt6nhn0fyFxoID3PutnWxQjovhlCXQ12P8qM9DdoOQxEEbqBFbUXHMQchIDSAHaakVb gmMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vjpFfY1HK5VuAdz0Y15zEziHkD1ick993seFJFF5Zjk=; b=SmUpvXHEgZH8bV1GavkFyp1/r0pO60lHdpW3fs+1mWJQQwDh8bY7z0NYSS8s6mv+73 TD6jh26XWrG/vVvdnQzc7LRxvxcCdgl1L1P3Ht8HL9GsxcAz9HuEWw3Pjh7Boonlwriq Q481O8wgZTlWVLoF5oEgseZp61vi2qIn3bPtIDnUDQW6F+yZ4cvMkjQXHHEBr7I8daAY W4tN9PrLLJlMd+UXvjukj1BGnsyeIJMnKyvtFnWKYBV/uwh8DZzo3iXYiyLKXBlTRi2P SvR52AgIZKgY1Sh/EOrzfDzg+wXzJfgvpbtz3JU+Wg7EiLWx6EQTYmeeUqQzhKChWMFs xhIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGRZ1gJiync1GSh7/YoqJO3ktpzvfjlwWk5uA8yqi+X4jyaxNOnI3UGP Nt7/A9lmAa+gb7GAvxk9BdkPPILm X-Google-Smtp-Source: AJdET5e+eLayaogXb4ZCgSqmUl0KuKWNFx4tKfWrf7A1kikhB1+Vfh4Z1vqj3GWhBwszohTDOEQMhQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:1e42:: with SMTP id e63-v6mr14154294pfe.149.1541882946168; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:49:06 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.103] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i21sm10525868pgm.17.2018.11.10.12.49.03 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 10 Nov 2018 12:49:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2018 07:49:01 +1100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------63A670173A4B39A14AFCD8D4" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------63A670173A4B39A14AFCD8D4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Tracy,                   Thanks Tracy as I am embarrassed with the price, but despite many hours arguing with machine shops ----  I can also now see why you did not continue with manufacture.  Then I continue to be amazed at your ingenuity with nothing to go by when you set out to manufacture.  The thieving turkeys here want nearly $1500 for a "one off" prop shaft!~!  Then there is the completely re-manufactured planetry assembly for increased reduction of 3.17.  This entails transferring the planet gears over to the new housing and interestingly I have done so on approx 6 planetries, to find one needle roller actually missing in 2 planets gears.   The question remains--- just how many more are out there with missing needle rollers??? To answer the question-  The splined "block" is chemically etched as is the inner of the outer square.  It is identical to the Harmonic pulley on the front of car engines with the rubber insert.  Once both surfaces are  cleaned and etched the unit is clamped in a jig and raw rubber packed in , then heated and vulcanised.  The rubber used is "engine mount" rubber which is used to go between 2 steel mounts on car engines to form the flexible mount. The measurements  are "tricky" as the outer square has to fit in between the mounting bolts on the E shaft and small enough inside, so that should the rubber fail as do hamonic pulleys and engine mounts, then it becomes a metal to metal drive as the inner block will not turn inside the outer square, so that you can defy gravity a little longer. Neil. On 11/11/2018 4:00 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: > > Nice work Neil. > > I understand why the price has to be so high for such relatively > simple parts.  The work behind the scenes is enormous and has to be > spread between so few units. > > I may have missed this detail before.  What kind of surface does the > splined part have to insure grip on the rubber? > > Tracy Crook > > Sent from Mail for > Windows 10 > > *From: *Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > *Sent: *Friday, November 9, 2018 4:09 PM > *To: *Rotary motors in aircraft > *Subject: *[FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement > > Joe, > >     Only mine which has survived to date without mishap.  The testing I > > did was to destroy a sample of various "cushion / flex material on the > > bench.  This involved clamping a unit in the vice and then twisting the > > inner with my son-in-law, who weighs 110 KG, on the end of a 6 foot > > length of pipe.  In theory that was in excess of 600 ft pounds and the > > rotary produces 300 ft pounds. THen the testing in my glastar which was > > ideal as I was fitting and tuning a new fuel tech ECU.  The backfiring > > and rough running certainly tried everything out. > > Neil. > > On 11/10/2018 6:22 AM, Joseph Berki jskmberki@windstream.net wrote: > > > Neil, > > > > > > Are there any cushion drives flying? > > > Any testing performed? > > > > > > Joe Berki > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 3:02 PM > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement > > > > > > joe, > > > > > >                     Just unbolt the old flex drive, and bolt mine on. > > > > > > Neil Unger. > > > > > > > > > On 11/7/2018 9:10 PM, Joseph Berki jskmberki@windstream.net wrote: > > >> Neil, > > >> > > >> Are there any modifications to the RD-1C hardware using your solution? > > >> > > >> Joe Berki > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > >> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:02 PM > > >> To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > >> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement > > >> > > >> Marc, > > >> > > >>                    Attached photo is of the original mounted on my > engine,  The unit shown has urethane as the "flex" which lasted about > 5 hours and the spacer is the original without excess material milled > off for lightness.  Input shaft is Tracy's whereas mine is one piece > and a lot dearer!!   Basically as shown the plate with the vulcanised > drive block is bolted through the spacer and flexplate onto the e > shaft as shown and is lighter than Tracy's but by how much I forget.  > Made specifically to retrofit all Tracy's reduction drives. > > >> > > >> Neil Unger. > > >> > > >> > > >> On 11/7/2018 10:12 AM, Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net wrote: > > >>> Neil, > > >>> Can I see a sketch of how it all fits together front to back? > > >>> Marc > > >>> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft > > >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 3:28 PM > > >>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > >>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement > > >>> > > >>> Joe,  There is another way which is my cushion drive (attached) > which will cost approx $500 USD plus freight with the current exchange > rate. Main cost is the splined drive block so that it matches up with > Tracy's splined input shaft.  The photo shows the 2 parts of the unit, > spacer and splined cushion drive, which bolt direct onto the e shaft > with the normal flexplate  in between. Uses the normal flexplate with > no strain whatever on the flexplate.  Your money and your decision!! > > >>> > > >>> Neil Unger > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On 11/7/2018 6:06 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote: > > >>>> Hi Joe, I believe there are two ways you can go, though I don't > have part numbers or exact details for you: > > >>>> 1) Tracy's Method: Use an aluminum flywheel directly, including > the center spline coupling - this eliminates the damper plate and the > need to drill holes. The catch is the spline does not match the > original RD1-C prop shaft spline. > > >>>> 2) Dave Leonard's Method: Use an aluminum flywheel, no center > spline, mount the damper plate, remove material from one face to > adjust ring gear position relative to starter. > > >>>> A quick search of the list should get you more info as it was > discussed lately ... > > >>>> Jeff > > >>>> > > >>>> I have been looking at various flywheels for possible candidate > replacement. > > >>>> > > >>>> I thought the aluminum units would provide the least amount of > weight gain. > > >>>> > > >>>> I noticed that there are a lot of holes in these units including > the replaceable friction area with many screw holes. > > >>>> > > >>>> I was under the impression that the holes in the flexplate > promoted stress cracks. > > >>>> > > >>>> These flywheels however may have sufficient material to > counteract the stress potential. > > >>>> > > >>>> Can someone provide a brand or part number that is acceptable? > > >>>> > > >>>> I believe that the additional machining to modify one of these > flywheels is the holes for the torsional damper. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks for any help. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Joe Berki > > >>>> > > >>>> -- > > >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > >>>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > >>> -- > > >>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > >>> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > >> Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > > Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > --------------63A670173A4B39A14AFCD8D4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Tracy,

                  Thanks Tracy as I am embarrassed with the price, but despite many hours arguing with machine shops ----  I can also now see why you did not continue with manufacture.  Then I continue to be amazed at your ingenuity with nothing to go by when you set out to manufacture.  The thieving turkeys here want nearly $1500 for a "one off" prop shaft!~!  Then there is the completely re-manufactured planetry assembly for increased reduction of 3.17.  This entails transferring the planet gears over to the new housing and interestingly I have done so on approx 6 planetries, to find one needle roller actually missing in 2 planets gears.   The question remains--- just how many more are out there with missing needle rollers???

To answer the question-  The splined "block" is chemically etched as is the inner of the outer square.  It is identical to the Harmonic pulley on the front of car engines with the rubber insert.  Once both surfaces are  cleaned and etched the unit is clamped in a jig and raw rubber packed in , then heated and vulcanised.  The rubber used is "engine mount" rubber which is used to go between 2 steel mounts on car engines to form the flexible mount. The measurements  are "tricky" as the outer square has to fit in between the mounting bolts on the E shaft and small enough inside, so that should the rubber fail as do hamonic pulleys and engine mounts, then it becomes a metal to metal drive  as the inner block will not turn inside the outer square, so that you can defy gravity a little longer.

Neil.


On 11/11/2018 4:00 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote:

Nice work Neil. 

I understand why the price has to be so high for such relatively simple parts.  The work behind the scenes is enormous and has to be spread between so few units.

 

I may have missed this detail before.  What kind of surface does the splined part have to insure grip on the rubber?

 

Tracy Crook 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, November 9, 2018 4:09 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement

 

Joe,

 

    Only mine which has survived to date without mishap.  The testing I

did was to destroy a sample of various "cushion / flex material on the

bench.  This involved clamping a unit in the vice and then twisting the

inner with my son-in-law, who weighs 110 KG, on the end of a 6 foot

length of pipe.  In theory that was in excess of 600 ft pounds and the

rotary produces 300 ft pounds. THen the testing in my glastar which was

ideal as I was fitting and tuning a new fuel tech ECU.  The backfiring

and rough running certainly tried everything out.

 

Neil.

 

 

On 11/10/2018 6:22 AM, Joseph Berki jskmberki@windstream.net wrote:

> Neil,

> 

> Are there any cushion drives flying?

> Any testing performed?

> 

> Joe Berki

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

> Sent: Wednesday, November 7, 2018 3:02 PM

> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement

> 

> joe,

> 

>                     Just unbolt the old flex drive, and bolt mine on.

> 

> Neil Unger.

> 

> 

> On 11/7/2018 9:10 PM, Joseph Berki jskmberki@windstream.net wrote:

>> Neil,

>> 

>> Are there any modifications to the RD-1C hardware using your solution?

>> 

>> Joe Berki

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

>> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 8:02 PM

>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement

>> 

>> Marc,

>> 

>>                    Attached photo is of the original mounted on my engine,  The unit shown has urethane as the "flex" which lasted about 5 hours and the spacer is the original without excess material milled off for lightness.  Input shaft is Tracy's whereas mine is one piece and a lot dearer!!   Basically as shown the plate with the vulcanised drive block is bolted through the spacer and flexplate onto the e shaft as shown and is lighter than Tracy's but by how much I forget.  Made specifically to retrofit all Tracy's reduction drives.

>> 

>> Neil Unger.

>> 

>> 

>> On 11/7/2018 10:12 AM, Marc Wiese cardmarc@charter.net wrote:

>>> Neil,

>>> Can I see a sketch of how it all fits together front to back?

>>> Marc

>>> 

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2018 3:28 PM

>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>

>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplare Replacement

>>> 

>>> Joe,  There is another way which is my cushion drive (attached) which will cost approx $500 USD plus freight with the current exchange rate. Main cost is the splined drive block so that it matches up with Tracy's splined input shaft.  The photo shows the 2 parts of the unit, spacer and splined cushion drive, which bolt direct onto the e shaft with the normal flexplate  in between. Uses the normal flexplate with no strain whatever on the flexplate.  Your money and your decision!!

>>> 

>>> Neil Unger

>>> 

>>> 

>>> On 11/7/2018 6:06 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com wrote:

>>>> Hi Joe, I believe there are two ways you can go, though I don't have part numbers or exact details for you:

>>>> 1) Tracy's Method: Use an aluminum flywheel directly, including the center spline coupling - this eliminates the damper plate and the need to drill holes. The catch is the spline does not match the original RD1-C prop shaft spline.

>>>> 2) Dave Leonard's Method: Use an aluminum flywheel, no center spline, mount the damper plate, remove material from one face to adjust ring gear position relative to starter.

>>>> A quick search of the list should get you more info as it was discussed lately ...

>>>> Jeff

>>>> 

>>>> I have been looking at various flywheels for possible candidate replacement.

>>>> 

>>>> I thought the aluminum units would provide the least amount of weight gain.

>>>> 

>>>> I noticed that there are a lot of holes in these units including the replaceable friction area with many screw holes.

>>>> 

>>>> I was under the impression that the holes in the flexplate promoted stress cracks.

>>>> 

>>>> These flywheels however may have sufficient material to counteract the stress potential.

>>>> 

>>>> Can someone provide a brand or part number that is acceptable?

>>>> 

>>>> I believe that the additional machining to modify one of these flywheels is the holes for the torsional damper.

>>>> 

>>>> Thanks for any help.

>>>> 

>>>>     

>>>> 

>>>> Joe Berki

>>>> 

>>>> --

>>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>>> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

>>> --

>>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>>> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

>> 

>> --

>> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

>> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

> 

> --

> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

> 

> 

> --

> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 

 

--

Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/

Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 


--------------63A670173A4B39A14AFCD8D4--