X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UschDK4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=jhq9xISCOvLrkKPOBj6vDA==:117 a=khwyK8DuSVkA:10 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=kBneUoZd7KMA:10 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=HS7a5OY4kEm6zMTJXxsA:9 a=IjyR_YlWhNzb9d49:21 a=D4b6DCYXDO06TVRH:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=Za5EslOk2Z09tbTTeoUA:9 a=nb2jnFTKcLthwyOO:21 a=_cbThGMo9ASb2Cjj:21 a=wsVO8zDk9QqjxEKs:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "David COOK hoursaway1@comcast.net" Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.44] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.9) with ESMTPS id 11859913 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Fri, 09 Nov 2018 22:41:57 -0500 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=69.252.207.44; envelope-from=hoursaway1@comcast.net Received: from resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.97]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id LJuvg2PkPx7x3LK9TgIZ1J; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 03:41:39 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20161114; t=1541821299; bh=2F2irGsz2hpH+na/yXScan7Om1NBqpaYJ6kQF3Kg/nU=; h=Received:Received:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Message-ID:Subject: MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GSXeAg4T6UTE3Evk0N0ByRJ7mK3mTrZ/Sh0dVn0rTLr/+bHmV4mEvQ5Ka4ORC0yAQ dceJDvGWhFvzXQ962Qf25YVHA8c0PvXqYgoIejciQjef20KJQ4GFlFGfpCKeJ0+GAo ptvrXWW2UqLI/lj5wanM4ZOV02UrMz3xyRoWfWsy/KuAGQFiYLqFR3FksG74AFef05 jt5OSPA9shJx3G5j6g7gZ4tzJ+H9YcT563nXKeJiIJhdnPlgCvC1MugEH8NL/N7DyK W2xtSVV5w4dZLcts25TmFmQpA0gkcL8WDXRPsEsgflBdNKhfpRjwzlgFdQ2z8CUGQW S8wBg57iyMsAQ== Received: from oxapp-ch2h-59o.email.comcast.net ([96.118.146.254]) by resomta-ch2-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPS id LK9TgNcdo5r3BLK9TgxDz6; Sat, 10 Nov 2018 03:41:39 +0000 Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 22:41:38 -0500 (EST) Reply-To: David COOK To: Rotary motors in aircraft Message-ID: <1369640506.35797.1541821299135@connect.xfinity.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cushion drive - retrofit questions. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_35796_882936401.1541821299051" X-Priority: 3 Importance: Medium X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.8.4-Rev38 X-Originating-IP: ::ffff:104.129.196.65 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfPJmXSNPEkiY++vM8aQ7o27L5+ScTEH7xjWTYLyeVBOLEeMvokYyh6Lm8I9I/b8+ZFkmnBPDFspfuevgFWwYzsurnRtsEIWWNL03c7IdzUwaIcH/MTk+ RouWi9Psw+wQ15LkF6SamMPHaYzTHKcugrZ7pusIelQfNR3tEDjKT6DVi8rPXozSyh0RpfBZcnTXbdf/BbLl8rWdpW/n6wJViZw= ------=_Part_35796_882936401.1541821299051 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Bobby, try searching shims with the specs you need, there are many diff= . automatic trans shims, thrust washers and torington bearings, maybe steal= race from torrington bearing. David R. Cook RV6A Rotary > On November 9, 2018 at 11:13 AM "Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net" wrote: >=20 >=20 > Neil, >=20 > =20 >=20 > =E2=80=9CIf you can get just the larger washer and drill the mounting= holes is the only cheaper option.=E2=80=9D -- Google has not turned up a= 1mm thick, 35mm Id thrust washer with an OD larger than 52mm. The one we a= re already using. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =E2=80=9CYes bearing stack is the same, but if you wish to put a larg= er thrust washer as in a 3mm instead of the 1mm, it is simply a matter if y= ou have my input shaft, to simply machine off another 2mm from the input sh= aft to accommodate the extra thickness.=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 This was my orig= inal plan. I=E2=80=99m a little concerned that removing the material may no= t leave enough to support the 3mm thrust washer. The space below (top down = view) where the 3mm thrust washer is supported has been machined away for t= he shear pin install. This leaves a nice area to support the 3mm washer. Ta= king 2mm of material off the support will make it very thin. It may not be = a problem but I=E2=80=99m not sure. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 3:35 PM > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cushion drive - retrofit questions. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Bobby, >=20 > Welcome to my world. No engineering shop wants to= change what they do without effort. That is unless you want to buy the sh= op in "set up" fees. >=20 > The prop movement of up to 1" is normal as the planetry gears are not= "pressed" into the ring gear, so have the usual tolerances which allows mo= vement. >=20 > Yes bearing stack is the same, but if you wish to put a larger thrust= washer as in a 3mm instead of the 1mm, it is simply a matter if you have m= y input shaft, to simply machine off another 2mm from the input shaft to ac= commodate the extra thickness. The shaft is "tough" but not brittle. The = normal carbide tips will cut it successfully. Going from memory you should= be able to do the same with Tracy's shaft. The gear is hardened but I am = sure another 2mm could be accommodated with grinding and machining. >=20 > The alternative is your costs as quoted which I feel will end up very= expensive by the time the washer is finished. I know of nothing like what= you are looking for. If you can get just the larger washer and drill the = mounting holes is the only cheaper option. There ae drill bits that easily= drill a metal file. >=20 > Neil. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > On 11/9/2018 12:42 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net mailto:bhughe= s@qnsi.net wrote: >=20 > > >=20 > > Neil, > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > So the 0.5 - 1" movement is the normal gear lashing plus any de= terioration of the rubber flex coupling? That would make more sense than h= ow I originally interoperated the prop movement.=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > "Bearing stack, if you use my shaft exactly the same stack req= uired." > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > I have an inquiry in to Tracy about the feasibility of changing= the bearing stack order. I've inspected four C model gearboxes and two of = the units have some input shaft wear where the 1mm thrust washer is contact= ing the shaft. It has been suggested that swapping the 1MM and 3MM thrust w= ashers should eliminate the shaft wear between the two thrust bearings. How= ever the 1MM thrust washer will not capture on the input shaft for assembly= . I have been unable to locate a 1MM / 35MM shaft thrust washer large enoug= h to mount to the aluminum plate. I've attached a possible design that I ha= ve sent out for quote. One change is that the mounting tabs cut at the wash= er would need to include a radius to minimize stress fractures. Problem is = the company has a $200 minimum setup fee.=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Bobby > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > =20 > >=20 > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline= .net]=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 3:21 PM > > =20 > >=20 > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > =20 > >=20 > > Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cushion drive - retrofit questions. > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Bobby, > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > There is no need to replace the input shaft = on the=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > RD1-C just to fit my cushion drive. My input shaft is identica= l except=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > it is machined from solid and a one piece shaft.--- and much de= arer! > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Bearing stack, if you use my shaft exactly the same stack requ= ired. > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Yes snubber washer thickness is unique as distances vary slight= ly. I am=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > happy with 5 - 10 thou clearance as the washer is to only cont= act when=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > the prop is driving the engine which allows the input shaft to= move=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > forwards. The snubber washer simply prevents metal to metal co= ntact in=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > that situation. I do know of one redrive that is operating wit= hout the=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > washer at all and all it seems to do is allow oil leakage from = the seal=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > on the input shaft as it travels back and forth, (if it actuall= y does?) > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > End play I believe is difficult to check as drag on the parts, = when=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > stationery, seem to make shaft movement impossible. But it is = possible=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > in theory for the shaft to move, hence the nylon washer. As yo= u say=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > gear lash is simple. > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > Neil. > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > On 11/8/2018 1:34 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net mailto:b= hughes@qnsi.net wrote: > > =20 > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > Neil, > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > I've got a few questions about the input shaft replacemen= t. > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Does the replacement input shaft use the same thrust wash= er stack at the RD1-C? > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > If a replacement shaft was retrofitted how does that affe= ct the molly infused snubber washer tolerance? I believe it would be unique= for each drive. Not sure what the acceptable tolerance range is. > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > 0.50 - 1" movement seems like a lot. There may be some mo= vement in my RD1C but I'm not aware of it. I check lashing and endplay befo= re each flight but never noticed any movement other than lashing. > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Thanks, > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Bobby > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancair= online.net] > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:15 AM > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > To: Rotary motors in aircraft > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Subject: [FlyRotary] cushion drive > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Charlie, Photo attached,. Should the rubber fail then t= he inner drive block will simply lock up on the outer square giving metal t= o metal which should last quite some time (hours) before wearing either awa= y. The rubber is "engine mount" rubber so will only deteriorate slowly and = not just explode and disappear completely. To test for wear you simply rock= the prop and any more than 1 inch movement would suggest a problem as in d= eterioration in the rubber. I can only get a half inch movement which is i= n the gear drive train. The rubber can be re-vulcanised if it is ever nece= ssary. I have now in excess of 50 hours with the rubber insert for no visi= ble wear.. > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Neil Unger. > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > -- > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lis= ts/flyrotary/List.html > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > >=20 > > -- > > =20 > >=20 > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > =20 > >=20 > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/fly= rotary/List.html > > =20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > =20 > >=20 > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > =20 > >=20 > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/fly= rotary/List.html > > =20 > >=20 > > >=20 > =20 >=20 =20 ------=_Part_35796_882936401.1541821299051 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Bobby, try searching shims with the sp= ecs you need, there are many diff. automatic trans shims, thrust washers an= d torington bearings, maybe steal race from torrington bearing. David R. Co= ok RV6A Rotary

On November 9, 2018 at 11:1= 3 AM "Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net" <flyrotary@lancaironlin= e.net> wrote:

Neil= ,

 

= “If you can get just the larger washer and drill the mounting holes i= s the only cheaper option.”   -- Google has not turned= up a 1mm thick, 35mm Id thrust washer with an OD larger than 52mm. The one= we are already using.

 

“Yes bearing stack is the same= , but if you wish to put a larger thrust washer as in a 3mm instead of the = 1mm, it is simply a matter if you have my input shaft, to simply machine of= f another 2mm from the input shaft to accommodate the extra thickness.̶= 1; – This was my original plan. I’m a little concerned tha= t removing the material may not leave enough to support the 3mm thrust wash= er. The space below (top down view) where the 3mm thrust washer is supporte= d has been machined away for the shear pin install. This leaves a nice area= to support the 3mm washer. Taking 2mm of material off the support will mak= e it very thin. It may not be a problem but I’m not sure.

 

Bobby

 

From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net]
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2018 3:= 35 PM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
Subject:= [FlyRotary] Re: cushion drive - retrofit questions.

 

Bobby,

&#= 160;            = ;      Welcome to my world.  No engineering s= hop wants to change what they do without effort.  That is unless you w= ant to buy the shop in "set up" fees.

The prop movement of up= to 1" is normal as the planetry gears are not "pressed" into t= he ring gear, so have the usual tolerances which allows movement.

Yes= bearing stack is the same, but if you wish to put a larger thrust washer a= s in a 3mm instead of the 1mm, it is simply a matter if you have my input s= haft, to simply machine off another 2mm from the input shaft to accommodate= the extra thickness.  The shaft is "tough" but not brittle.&#= 160; The normal carbide tips will cut it successfully.  Going from mem= ory you should be able to do the same with Tracy's shaft.  The gea= r is hardened but I am sure another 2mm could be accommodated with grinding= and machining.

The alternative is your costs as quoted which I feel = will end up very expensive by the time the washer is finished.  I know= of nothing like what you are looking for.  If you can get just the la= rger washer and drill the mounting holes is the only cheaper option.  = There ae drill bits that easily drill a metal file.

Neil.

 = ;

 

On 11/9/2018 12:42 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:

Ne=
il,
      
     =20
        
      
So the 0.5 - 1" movement is the normal gear lashing pl=
us any deterioration of the rubber flex coupling?  That would make mor=
e sense than how I originally interoperated the prop movement.=20
      
     =20
        
      
"Bearing stack,  if you use my shaft exactly the =
same stack required."
      
     =20
        
      
I have an inquiry in to Tracy about the feasibility of cha=
nging the bearing stack order. I've inspected four C model gearboxes an=
d two of the units have some input shaft wear where the 1mm thrust washer i=
s contacting the shaft. It has been suggested that swapping the 1MM and 3MM=
 thrust washers should eliminate the shaft wear between the two thrust bear=
ings. However the 1MM thrust washer will not capture on the input shaft for=
 assembly. I have been unable to locate a 1MM / 35MM shaft thrust washer la=
rge enough to mount to the aluminum plate. I've attached a possible des=
ign that I have sent out for quote. One change is that the mounting tabs cu=
t at the washer would need to include a radius to minimize stress fractures=
. Problem is the company has a $200 minimum setup fee.=20
      
     =20
        
      
Bobby
      
     =20
        
      
     =20
        
      
-----Original Message-----
      
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]=20
      
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 3:21 PM
      
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
      
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: cushion drive - retrofit question=
s.
      
     =20
        
      
Bobby,
      
     =20
        
      
          =
60;        There is no need to replace t=
he input shaft on the=20
      
RD1-C just to fit my cushion drive.  My input shaft i=
s identical except=20
      
it is machined from solid and a one piece shaft.--- and mu=
ch dearer!
      
     =20
        
      
Bearing stack,  if you use my shaft exactly the same =
stack required.
      
     =20
        
      
Yes snubber washer thickness is unique as distances vary s=
lightly.  I am=20
      
happy with 5  - 10 thou clearance as the washer is to=
 only contact when=20
      
the prop is driving the engine which  allows the inpu=
t shaft to move=20
      
forwards.  The snubber washer simply prevents metal t=
o metal contact in=20
      
that situation.  I do know of one redrive that is ope=
rating without the=20
      
washer at all and all it seems to do is allow oil leakage =
from the seal=20
      
on the input shaft as it travels back and forth, (if it ac=
tually does?)
      
     =20
        
      
End play I believe is difficult to check as drag on the pa=
rts, when=20
      
stationery, seem to make shaft movement impossible.  =
But it is possible=20
      
in theory for the shaft to move, hence the nylon washer.&#=
160; As you say=20
      
gear lash is simple.
      
     =20
        
      
Neil.
      
     =20
        
      
     =20
        
      
     =20
        
      
On 11/8/2018 1:34 AM, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote:
      
Neil,
       
      =20
         
       
I've got a few questions about the input shaft replac=
ement.
       
Does the replacement input shaft use the same thrust wash=
er stack at the RD1-C?
       
If a replacement shaft was retrofitted how does that affe=
ct the molly infused snubber washer tolerance? I believe it would be unique=
 for each drive. Not sure what the acceptable tolerance range is.
       
0.50 - 1" movement seems like a lot. There may be som=
e movement in my RD1C but I'm not aware of it. I check lashing and endp=
lay before each flight but never noticed any movement other than lashing.
       
      =20
         
       
Thanks,
       
      =20
         
       
Bobby
       
 =20
       
      =20
         
       
-----Original Message-----
       
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net]
       
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2018 12:15 AM
       
To: Rotary motors in aircraft
       
Subject: [FlyRotary] cushion drive
       
      =20
         
       
Charlie,  Photo attached,.  Should the rubber f=
ail then the inner drive block will simply lock up on the outer square givi=
ng metal to metal which should last quite some time (hours) before wearing =
either away. The rubber is "engine mount" rubber so will only deter=
iorate slowly and not just explode and disappear completely. To test for we=
ar you simply rock the prop and any more than 1 inch movement would suggest=
 a problem as in deterioration in the rubber.  I can only get a half i=
nch movement which is in the gear drive train.  The rubber can be re-v=
ulcanised if it is ever necessary.  I have now in excess of 50 hours w=
ith the rubber insert for no visible wear..
       
      =20
         
       
Neil Unger.
       
      =20
         
       
 =20
       
--
       
Homepage:  htt=
p://www.flyrotary.com/
       
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:=
81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
       
     =20
        
      
     =20
        
      
--
      
Homepage:  http=
://www.flyrotary.com/
      
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:8=
1/lists/flyrotary/List.html
      




--
      
Homepage:  http=
://www.flyrotary.com/
      
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:8=
1/lists/flyrotary/List.html

 


 

<= /body> =20 ------=_Part_35796_882936401.1541821299051--