X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UschDK4B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=5Z4zKrV970jBWEF2Z0dPgg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=JHtHm7312UAA:10 a=vU4nFQfdXkUA:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=1XWaLZrsAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=o2QoyYduAAAA:8 a=hYTge3W7WpwoHTD1XsMA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=G6pwhZaRBiqnDN4v:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=S50rnUa8yRbNnh2hyxzf:22 From: "lehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from sonic309-14.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.129.124] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.9) with ESMTP id 11832631 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 01 Nov 2018 13:59:02 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.129.124; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1541095107; bh=E8JuNNu/Ib88h/8S0kUOkQ0/hrXFxSGB1WXnJU+5cmE=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:From:Subject; b=ek2VJiUlA8z9/GFk25EIm20MS+JW+uFsD27WJF02jEwEOB+gbk0kiXkBn2QCTZKqhTTOv7DyUWcnTWhTiMIc1m3b6CQuE2LB9R2fhANTgBKvyYYgJircxEAfl2NxpgQk8lmG9LdgLW7432BQjWt3gtJsr3yCv0kyUe5SyQ0bKuMeK4lmXRo4NbDfGoPtaiy6bi0CJ1fxc8plbe3od/s+s20nAq74Lu1kklOr7cpHwYss7+EOOKyLoMllLi5N4TXDLH0JKzuV10aMHxuQOho2Nm/PiurGydMYrgx4FL+OML38Imd8Cqomj8Q4DL8kk2SSu6AXZrqzvfT4KhkpsGo69g== X-YMail-OSG: APYUs7UVM1loGdleEdd5j7Wzsvq2ybsw690Yb2CrEgy4qQ7UNLWvsGjt7z.7V.A UBSgI_dfOxSgl7aOYKhEufJ2hV.n6x8rd_oLUJ5yj6h35dAK7iFNO5B.MkIxm6Ql96vu179S73F6 htFuSeMCrVvbWvLpyjE4mfPh2mmQgI21c9HrbV4JLpDDeVsfnY0hJXiTyr.jm.staRnPK3SBHn8n Lzwy89PGqzqjMRLm66i8WZ_A2p8AC6wl2f1NMKGuWHRg7BbtYb9k83ISq1XS0UhvIeQGtCV.WcAz Z6B1cxTQVtW28.1v4pMDe.jR46OQ41q1zlaUlFUKyE4J_EFXe00UKD705hedOuYfdccnfR0aQxTu 2WIXBrH3aIpBS_CoThhKcw9t1Egemi0EPlGlJTFUwMGTBjp.bNomgvnwlo5ld5_wh9n5tfIuAw59 Ikxx1hGgeCNRa9V4f4Jnhcn4QdoTF7Y8mN7s0ue19huDBnXzZWzEBtVcckzt2IT67ZIDGZRHjXRO j3j.I4_kdCWf8BhaeWbOOFrY6vQ2S9ABVCzrzlOMe7pKHhP9WBk6hMTAXbqkuPBdUbkdiWGLJ87G zzjDXE5Eebll2bovPQZ4sRv_caJxl2NDs6r8grQPIpSaYEyGIxR0JyNoE58Tql1He6GXsHJrdJgk 42JSwZX6zOx42kLlFzbWQt.6S8oFrJgb2w9jkibkdMJatLhOhjd6i2YrZsEq84tmkj7cwgM6M_ra gKtxGncvdh62_nOPtonuuBDjFyIJYDSGNV8Zuie44q3MniQf2GFhx3SryfO5M3tf.S3ap_ADdVHd GTLW9FIMZB_XVDMXXuX0kfMreEt7rxLePtNQvjJ52USYfYl7ZzI9.iyKWkEObqiamK7kGoYctMSi KwK9ulJdckLPuh9uIahTfDYukd3cYvMiq_qFk76bvlta0HUuN3rTVCLP6LNTTdO8gXqdsWm8w52O KtsN.t33JOzHseBk0Xf.H6J.9NxWL Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 1 Nov 2018 17:58:27 +0000 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 17:58:27 +0000 (UTC) To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-ID: <1195978986.20691188.1541095107484@mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Flexplate location / failure MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_20691187_693096615.1541095107482" References: <1195978986.20691188.1541095107484.ref@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.12512 aolloki Apache-HttpClient/4.5 (Java/1.8.0_144) Content-Length: 10972 ------=_Part_20691187_693096615.1541095107482 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In a message dated 10/28/2018 5:49:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@l= ancaironline.net writes: As a heads-up to new arrivals, the flexplate cracking issue likely predates= use of the engine in aircraft. I've got one that's never flown that has tw= o cracks. I think Len Hanover mentioned that mishandling at wrecking yards = may be one cause (dropping the engine on the flexplate when storing it). It= doesn't seem to be limited to rotaries, either.https://www.google.com/sear= ch?ei=3DkizWW_L1KYOuzwKdkaLYBA&q=3D+flexplate+crack+symptoms&oq=3D+flexplat= e+crack+symptoms&gs_l=3Dpsy-ab.3..0.9099.9099..10752...0.0..0.153.153.0j1..= ....0....1..gws-wiz.ntPTjk3KElA Bottom line for me is to check before using. That's how I discovered cracks= in mine. Charlie On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 12:48 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com wrote: Hi Joe,Yes, my flex plate not only developed cracks but basically disintegr= ated.=C2=A0 Keep in mind that I was running about 300hp at rookie school fo= r Reno.=C2=A0 None the less, the flex plate was never designed to transmit = the output of engine, just allow the starter to turn it over.=C2=A0 The lig= htening holes in it alow flexing that initiated the cracks, then the whole = thing shattered.=C2=A0 Surprisingly, in my case the pieces happend to jam t= ogether in such a way that it still functioned until I happend to find it o= n inspection several flight hours later. All the details of my fix are in the archives somewhere, but basically I re= placed the flex plate with an off the shelf lightweight flywheel that I add= apted to accept tracys damper plate.=C2=A0 I took it to a machine shop to h= ave the mounting holes correctly placed.=C2=A0 I also had it balanced, but = I probably could have skipped that step.=C2=A0 I also had to machine a rece= ss into Tracys mounting plate to allow the starter to reach the teeth on th= e flywheel.=C2=A0 Details are in the archivees somewhere.=C2=A0 That was go= ing on in June July and Aug of 2011, which may make it easier to find. Tracy also engineered a fix.=C2=A0 His solution is in the archives too.=C2= =A0 He also seemed to think that the flex plate was good enough for a normi= ally aspirated 13b, but after seeeing what happend to mine, I believe that = even a n.a. 13b would eventually fatugue the flex plate into the same resul= t.=C2=A0 =C2=A0As I recall, at least one other person detected cracks in th= e same place. Best,Dave Leonard On Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 4:23 AM Joseph Berki jskmberki@windstream.net wrote: =C2=A0 I believe that Dave Lenard had an issue with cracks appearing in the flexpl= ate.=C2=A0 He came up with a solution and does anyone recall =C2=A0the deta= ils of the solution and would it work for all 13bs with Tracy=E2=80=99s PSR= U? Joe Berki =C2=A0 On the racer, I built a small steel flywheel just big enough to fit up a 5 = 1/4" Tilton dual disc clutch pack. The front side needed to have about 1/4"= spigot so as to clear the flex plate which has a slight conical shape.=C2= =A0 I just bolted the flywheel on over the flex plate. Never a problem on t= he=C2=A0 95 RX-7. a big problem on a sports racer I built. The driver defea= ted the rev limiter by shifting into 1st rather than 3rd while already turn= ing about 9,500 RPM. The transmission was a Hewland FT-200, dog ring style,= so it went right into the selected gear.=C2=A0 The flex plate has only 6 w= elds to keep the ring gear on the flex plate. The ring gear broke next to o= ne weld. The free end tried to machine the bell housing into 2 pieces. The = ring gear also rolled outboard about 30 degrees. It wanted out and almost m= ade it. On the replacement ring gear I TIG welded an additional 6 welds and added 1= 2 welds to the back of the ring gear.=C2=A0 Since you do not need a wear surface for the airplane installation, just a = piece of aluminum plate could be used to produce a similar flywheel. The fl= ex plate is just used to start the engine and delivers no torque loads to t= he gear box.=C2=A0 Lynn E. Hanover ------=_Part_20691187_693096615.1541095107482 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


In a message dated 10/28/2018 5:49:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

As a heads-up to new arrivals, the flexplate cracking issue likely predates use of the engine in aircraft. I've got one that's never flown that has two cracks. I think Len Hanover mentioned that mishandling at wrecking yards may be one cause (dropping the engine on the flexplate when storing it). It doesn't seem to be limited to rotaries, either.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=kizWW_L1KYOuzwKdkaLYBA&q=+flexplate+crack+symptoms&oq=+flexplate+crack+symptoms&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0.9099.9099..10752...0.0..0.153.153.0j1......0....1..gws-wiz.ntPTjk3KElA

Bottom line for me is to check before using. That's how I discovered cracks in mine.

Charlie

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 12:48 PM David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Joe,
Yes, my flex plate not only developed cracks but basically disintegrated.  Keep in mind that I was running about 300hp at rookie school for Reno.  None the less, the flex plate was never designed to transmit the output of engine, just allow the starter to turn it over.  The lightening holes in it alow flexing that initiated the cracks, then the whole thing shattered.  Surprisingly, in my case the pieces happend to jam together in such a way that it still functioned until I happend to find it on inspection several flight hours later.

All the details of my fix are in the archives somewhere, but basically I replaced the flex plate with an off the shelf lightweight flywheel that I addapted to accept tracys damper plate.  I took it to a machine shop to have the mounting holes correctly placed.  I also had it balanced, but I probably could have skipped that step.  I also had to machine a recess into Tracys mounting plate to allow the starter to reach the teeth on the flywheel.  Details are in the archivees somewhere.  That was going on in June July and Aug of 2011, which may make it easier to find.

Tracy also engineered a fix.  His solution is in the archives too.  He also seemed to think that the flex plate was good enough for a normially aspirated 13b, but after seeeing what happend to mine, I believe that even a n.a. 13b would eventually fatugue the flex plate into the same result.   As I recall, at least one other person detected cracks in the same place.

Best,
Dave Leonard

On Sun, Oct 28, 2018, 4:23 AM Joseph Berki jskmberki@windstream.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

 

I believe that Dave Lenard had an issue with cracks appearing in the flexplate.  He came up with a solution and does anyone recall  the details of the solution and would it work for all 13bs with Tracy’s PSRU?

Joe Berki

 

On the racer, I built a small steel flywheel just big enough to fit up a 5 1/4" Tilton dual disc clutch pack. The front side needed to have about 1/4" spigot so as to clear the flex plate which has a slight conical shape.  I just bolted the flywheel on over the flex plate. Never a problem on the  95 RX-7. a big problem on a sports racer I built. The driver defeated the rev limiter by shifting into 1st rather than 3rd while already turning about 9,500 RPM. The transmission was a Hewland FT-200, dog ring style, so it went right into the selected gear.  The flex plate has only 6 welds to keep the ring gear on the flex plate. The ring gear broke next to one weld. The free end tried to machine the bell housing into 2 pieces. The ring gear also rolled outboard about 30 degrees. It wanted out and almost made it.

On the replacement ring gear I TIG welded an additional 6 welds and added 12 welds to the back of the ring gear. 

Since you do not need a wear surface for the airplane installation, just a piece of aluminum plate could be used to produce a similar flywheel. The flex plate is just used to start the engine and delivers no torque loads to the gear box. 

Lynn E. Hanover

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