X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=O/h7h11W c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=mqCpLQCafvmrgXPrK7/axg==:117 a=DTJ80t0OOMBEK3TpTp0vVw==:17 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=LoHkbMfiAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=0YLqoMJAe8XHy2Gh_YEA:9 a=INVDyeNg0zKCB02Y:21 a=8ygfogN0DD1Ch9lM:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=PsJIBI68arB_lBRYficA:9 a=4vK-sptB5f0wtWPg:21 a=UHtWURxhaNEhLxJE:21 a=uR2bne8Cgz2VL0YM:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=3LLsThThPyrG-VgeOI6T:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net" Received: from smtp475.redcondor.net ([208.80.204.75] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11679451 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 09:51:40 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=208.80.204.75; envelope-from=res12@fairpoint.net Received: from mailproxy6.neonova.net ([137.118.40.136]) by smtp475.redcondor.net ({096fa88a-70b2-40e7-9c10-71504124e555}) via TCP (outbound) with ESMTP id 20180924135121436_0475 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 13:51:21 +0000 X-RC-FROM: X-RC-RCPT: Received: from [192.168.2.6] (dflo-67-158-146-3.gtcom.net [67.158.146.3]) (Authenticated sender: res12@fairpoint.net) by mailproxy6.neonova.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 29AD160B9C1 for ; Mon, 24 Sep 2018 09:50:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: ECU To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: <9ee4c076-ba44-b49e-f18d-995eb4f55476@fairpoint.net> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2018 08:51:15 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------09622F874C8B2BC5111CEEC9" Content-Language: en-US X-DLP-OUTBOUND: 137.118.40.128/25 X-MAG-OUTBOUND: greymail.redcondor.net@137.118.40.128/25 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------09622F874C8B2BC5111CEEC9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Neil, I never did establish the real impact on idle speed of the throttle body distance from the rotor housing. I more relayed on work others did and what I observed with using other carburetors. If you are happy with the idle speed you get at 18 inches runners, you can use the TBI as it is coming from the factory and just put an air filter to the intake. From what I have seen on piston engines, you may get away with a plenum and a single TBI of the proper size. Richard. On 9/23/2018 5:04 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: > > Richard, > >                    I have the throttle body 18 inches away from the > housing entrance and it idles at 2200 reasonably well. Sounds like you > tried having the TBI away from the housing --- what results??   Other > than that I can understand you advice re the TBI.  Neil Unger. > > > On 9/19/2018 11:22 AM, Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net wrote: >> >> Neil, >> >> 0n a P port, you want to have the throttle body as close as possible >> to the rotor housing for an as low as possible idle RPM. Mine idles >> pretty good at 2300 RPM. So any tuning intake length on the intake >> will have to be outside the throttle body. However, the TBI has a >> cone on the intake side with the reference pressure pick up for the >> fuel pressure regulator included. It assumes that you have an air >> filter attached to the TBI. Using a tuned intake coming into the TBI, >> would have to have a continuing inside diameter. In order to meet >> that you need to insert a filler to eliminate the intake cone, which >> at the same time eliminates the reference pressure pick up, >> physically and functionally. The physical part should be obvious, but >> the functional part needs to meet good old Bernoully's ideas. In >> order to avoid the high static pressure drop in the intake pipe at >> high flow rates and with that, lowering the reference pressure at the >> fuel pressure regulator, the pressure pick up has to be moved to the >> inlet area of the intake. It took me some fine tuning to find the >> right place. I ended up with it inside the air filter where there is >> very little air velocity changing floe direction. >> >> I hope all that makes any sense without having the TBI in your hand. >> >> Richard. >> >> >> On 9/18/2018 7:00 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Yep, I have P port,  Hoping that will not affect the TBI? What grief >>> did you have? >>> >>> Neil. >>> >>> >>> On 9/19/2018 8:10 AM, Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net wrote: >>>> >>>> Neil, >>>> >>>> it consists of a CDI unit triggered by a reluctor, like the one on >>>> the Renesis(RX8) engine. The coil is from a GM waste spark >>>> ignition. Off course on the single rotor all you need is on trigger >>>> tooth. Everything considered, I would use on a two rotor just two >>>> identical systems, still one tooth but two pick ups. >>>> >>>> If you talk to the guy at M&W he will help you, real nice. >>>> >>>> One thing on the TBI. If you use it on a P-Ported engine and have a >>>> tuned intake, it dos take some modifications, for which I did not >>>> get any help from Rotec. >>>> >>>> Richard. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 9/18/2018 4:37 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Richard you ex patriot, >>>>> >>>>>                                               I know of one bloke >>>>> who intends to use the Rotec TBI, but none in operation that I >>>>> know of.  More details on your ignition system please.  Neil. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/18/2018 11:56 PM, Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi in Down Under, >>>>>> >>>>>> has anybody down there ever tried or used a Rotec TDI on a Rotary >>>>>> engine? It is your local product. This is what I am using on my >>>>>> single rotor after having tried all carb solution I could think >>>>>> off. It also gives you a manual mixture control. Once it was set >>>>>> up and running right it is always doing that. I also am using a >>>>>> single channel CD ignition system from M&W with a dual output >>>>>> coil. I have no down side found on that setup so far. >>>>>> >>>>>> FWIW >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/18/2018 12:02 AM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: >>>>>>> Probably a displaced sentence for Tracy. I only speak >>>>>>> Weber...............LEH >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In a message dated 9/17/2018 5:18:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, >>>>>>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gents, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>     As always much good advice. What I really miss is >>>>>>> Tracy's manual >>>>>>> mixture trim.  Tracy I assume it can be resurrected in the >>>>>>> new setup?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Lynn, the fixed timing seems to work as you say, Can you >>>>>>> alter the >>>>>>> mixture with a trim pot? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Neil Unger. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>>>>> Archive and UnSub: >>>>>>> http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Richard Sohn >>>>>> 8029 County HWY 1087 >>>>>> DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Richard Sohn >>>> 8029 County HWY 1087 >>>> DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 >>> >> >> -- >> Richard Sohn >> 8029 County HWY 1087 >> DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 > -- Richard Sohn 8029 County HWY 1087 DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433 --------------09622F874C8B2BC5111CEEC9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Neil,

I never did establish the real impact on idle speed of the throttle body distance from the rotor housing. I more relayed on work others did and what I observed with using other carburetors. If you are happy with the idle speed you get at 18 inches runners, you can use the TBI as it is coming from the factory and just put an air filter to the intake.

From what I have seen on piston engines, you may get away with a plenum and a single TBI of the proper size.

Richard.


On 9/23/2018 5:04 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:

Richard,

                   I have the throttle body 18 inches away from the housing entrance and it idles at 2200 reasonably well.  Sounds like you tried having the TBI away from the housing --- what results??   Other than that I can understand you advice re the TBI.  Neil Unger.


On 9/19/2018 11:22 AM, Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net wrote:

Neil,

0n a P port, you want to have the throttle body as close as possible to the rotor housing for an as low as possible idle RPM. Mine idles pretty good at 2300 RPM. So any tuning intake length on the intake will have to be outside the throttle body. However, the TBI has a cone on the intake side with the reference pressure pick up for the fuel pressure regulator included. It assumes that you have an air filter attached to the TBI. Using a tuned intake coming into the TBI, would have to have a continuing inside diameter. In order to meet that you need to insert a filler to eliminate the intake cone, which at the same time eliminates the reference pressure pick up, physically and functionally. The physical part should be obvious, but the functional part needs to meet good old Bernoully's ideas. In order to avoid the high static pressure drop in the intake pipe at high flow rates and with that, lowering the reference pressure at the fuel pressure regulator, the pressure pick up has to be moved to the inlet area of the intake. It took me some fine tuning to find the right place. I ended up with it inside the air filter where there is very little air velocity changing floe direction.

I hope all that makes any sense without having the TBI in your hand.

Richard.


On 9/18/2018 7:00 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:

Yep, I have P port,  Hoping that will not affect the TBI?  What grief did you have?

Neil.


On 9/19/2018 8:10 AM, Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net wrote:

Neil,

it consists of a CDI unit triggered by a reluctor, like the one on the Renesis(RX8) engine. The coil is from a GM waste spark ignition. Off course on the single rotor all you need is on trigger tooth. Everything considered, I would use on a two rotor just two identical systems, still one tooth but two pick ups.

If you talk to the guy at M&W he will help you, real nice.

One thing on the TBI. If you use it on a P-Ported engine and have a tuned intake, it dos take some modifications, for which I did not get any help from Rotec.

Richard.


On 9/18/2018 4:37 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:

Richard you ex patriot,

                                              I know of one bloke who intends to use the Rotec TBI, but none in operation that I know of.  More details on your ignition system please.  Neil.


On 9/18/2018 11:56 PM, Richard Sohn res12@fairpoint.net wrote:

Hi in Down Under,

has anybody down there ever tried or used a Rotec TDI on a Rotary engine? It is your local product. This is what I am using on my single rotor after having tried all carb solution I could think off. It also gives you a manual mixture control. Once it was set up and running right it is always doing that. I also am using a single channel CD ignition system from M&W with a dual output coil. I have no down side found on that setup so far.

FWIW

Richard.


On 9/18/2018 12:02 AM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
Probably a displaced sentence for Tracy. I only speak Weber...............LEH

In a message dated 9/17/2018 5:18:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Gents,

    As always much good advice.  What I really miss is Tracy's manual
mixture trim.  Tracy I assume it can be resurrected in the new setup??

Lynn, the fixed timing seems to work as you say, Can you alter the
mixture with a trim pot?

Neil Unger.


--

-- 
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433


-- 
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433


-- 
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433


-- 
Richard Sohn
8029 County HWY 1087
DeFuniak Springs, FL 32433
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