X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=O/h7h11W c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=PfljCweHXHZr3fS9hjJSJw==:117 a=thdTrgwM6TmnggckcILPUQ==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=VqmtQeTB-p0A:10 a=4_-BN3WEXhEA:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=0qqORytXAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=xd1upLDOiWrJpluQGdMA:9 a=8LMlU33nJRUN1TlE:21 a=nRXgrd3AAkUmvDEl:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=-6Fi0yan4xIA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=vQwwvzPyYadzwchTTJwA:9 a=IwIRBSwfRm2JRnWa:21 a=lvj55ataueoJKeut:21 a=T72kR6crLf5eXLSK:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=b2PsqJ7qRVCcx3_Ph57p:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Nj1bhqyGrdl6Az3_ctNx:22 From: "Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pf1-f171.google.com ([209.85.210.171] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11664063 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:39:55 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.210.171; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-pf1-f171.google.com with SMTP id x17-v6so3549377pfh.5 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:39:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date:importance:in-reply-to :references; bh=Br7gB9YqzJHjlMCdK3g9kStlEVc4kptCmrO74vEaMRg=; b=LM5f3ta9HKJscZ5iq9s43eE6QvaTjCw4qCN7GoKQQPId+EaQy9RaI4Ge/gktbLrfml S3fdUy6sCBVEr64qLlID+h9I2Oqw55BI6lQF3enAwzmx3oke3SX7cyt/lVBR+AJwC4xD YbXvmC/XLDVjfUqXNjRNxv+pN+TAn3ClazX4fGDry15AsKjzUiwj+UJn0CmhXePKKH1b wHYZSCOLQ8df2vZFFL5S48/ioZkBJIksGHRcz1MkKjn5Hr4l8zViSSBqHJnZBqJ0qlia tt0Zw0xkl7ALt84wUfidcSnN0/X6DqnsSk1Z1tFqc/7Jetg3F0XzBati5DKagEdb3CNV K02g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:mime-version:to:from:subject:date :importance:in-reply-to:references; bh=Br7gB9YqzJHjlMCdK3g9kStlEVc4kptCmrO74vEaMRg=; b=dhi4bg0NhpVZkr4X9dYVVa7y+b+nTHi5L7CydCBDIaK4/BONqqGefe/FCIWaKAe6xx fN+V1C8IVTF9Sl7KWsf0nE1uWZTzakTAx2kzpKSmWKfk8TPxmyxO0XSxvwg2ijXdEBUc 53Vtvd4dgwKc8tkOhlyv/fNn/80YWPempHiNQlh/YGhPXf5nJnP0nzgwfOZes+8JUl2/ SMUDZ6XN8L05mhw9twxnN3huXSU0V1KlSt6XxtG2pl2YLzWlOcgeeJ68m1vcS6yIIt3n dCMjArOY/nUb/P3JXd7sye+UvqH/NKcRW0Y8ES5lhEXmWmOhFPnfYtGBNXYVONg2j/YO dbzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51A3i3RNlZvkbQZ3RtsquodLdxpLqeZJ1VrjQ2IJOzJIujf6VF8Q RilGXSsI/kDm1q8A0vm4qwqWMh5d X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vda6azy14y0ERvbi51ABOfpL8cNz8hjQF/uFSS/7eMcg0pU1rrjN7+BDivL+R13ia9CvKUzF7A== X-Received: by 2002:a63:6385:: with SMTP id x127-v6mr34992099pgb.413.1537407578402; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from ?IPv6:::ffff:172.20.10.3? (99.sub-97-44-1.myvzw.com. [97.44.1.99]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h130-v6sm27895639pgc.88.2018.09.19.18.39.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Sep 2018 18:39:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5ba2fa59.1c69fb81.82746.a1a8@mx.google.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: RE: [FlyRotary] Re: ignition system Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:39:28 -0400 Importance: normal X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_2B6D1EF3-E59B-44A1-BDAC-728E1A6C7FD0_" --_2B6D1EF3-E59B-44A1-BDAC-728E1A6C7FD0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yeah I do, but I=E2=80=99m getting ready to head back to florida in a coupl= e of weeks and the RV-8 won=E2=80=99t fit in the trunk of an M240i. I=E2= =80=99ll be building the replacement forward fuselage floor and left gear t= ower in FL to bring back next spring. Repairing this way means I=E2=80=99= ll have to use a bunch of expensive Cherry-max blind rivets but way cheaper= than a new fuselage. I don=E2=80=99t think I had it in me to do that job = anyway, would have had to write it off. =20 There is plenty of spare serial I/O on the Arduino so I=E2=80=99m thinking = the display for Lambda, RPM and fuel flow will be easy to include, as well = as the MAP table etc. that is currently displayed on the EM3. The other e= ngine parameters like water & oil temps & pressure, etc. will not be there = since the EC3 doesn=E2=80=99t have sensors for those. The display will be = optional, builder will have to figure out packaging, mounting, etc. The el= ectrical connections will just be power and two wires for the serial data. = =20 Tracy Crook Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 5:50 PM To: Rotary motors in aircraft Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: ignition system Yeah, I'm really happy to see you offering this, but I can't help but think= ing... don't you have an airplane to fix?? but to echo Charlie, the PWM output for in-tank fuel pumps would be a nice = option. And an OBD2 or CAN output. It would certainly be nice to see the EM3 combined with this, simply becaus= e of the recent advances in cheap, large OLED screens would allow for a ver= y nice and easily sunlight readable display screen, but I suspect it would = be best and safest to keep these as separate instruments. As I've discovere= d, the accidental grounding of any 5v sensor line has undesirable effects o= n my engine monitor, so I'm happy to have the EM & EC separate and just com= municating data. Todd Todd Bartrim On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: Since you're offering.... ;-) Integrating a sensor input array/engine monitor, and a driver for a display= similar to what your monitor and what Ed Anderson used to offer in his rot= ary monitor would be really nice. Or maybe OBD2 port that could interface w= ith the already-available android apps & display on a phone/tablet, similar= to what the M*Squirt guys are doing now. A CAN bus that will talk to other= devices?=20 Oh, and two switch-selectable pressure-controlled PWM outputs that can driv= e a pair of automotive in-tank fuel pumps, so we can have redundant vapor-f= ree fuel delivery and eliminate the return line, like modern cars. How about full sequential injection? Would that help the little intermitten= t stumbles we hear when rotaries are idling? I could continue, since you're obviously a glutton for punishment and bored= with repairing the -8.... ;-) Charlie On 9/19/2018 3:59 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: I'll post up dates an progress on the Arduino software port.=C2=A0 If anyon= e has ideas to add/change, things they like/don=E2=80=99t like about the EC= 2/3 or things that could be better, let me know.=C2=A0 To the guy designing= a thing the operation might be obvious but be terribly confusing to anyone= else.=C2=A0=20 Tracy Crook=20 On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:19, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tracy;=20 =C2=A0 I'd be very interested in the software code for an Arduino/EC3 when = it is ready. My Dad has given my 14 year old son his old jeep as a project = to work on for the next few years until he can drive legally. I had already= been considering converting it to EFI as a good learning experience for hi= m and now hearing that the EC3 code will be available has convinced me that= we should do this. I'd already planned to buy him his own Arduino starter = kit just because I think there is a lot of educational value there, but wit= h a goal of building his own EFI for his own Jeep, there will be a lot of m= otivation to learn. And it will be a great platform to test the design befo= re possibly trying it in any future aircraft builds. Todd Todd Bartrim On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 5:42 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: Totally agree Todd, =C2=A0the Arduino is a fantastic platform to develop en= gine controls or avionics on.=C2=A0 Just for something to do (and because I= =E2=80=99d like to see an EFI solution available to anyone who wants one) I= =E2=80=99ve started porting the EC3 software over to the Arduino.=C2=A0 I d= on=E2=80=99t plan to sell them but will give the software to anyone who wan= ts it.=C2=A0 The cost to build would be little more than a $35 Arduino boar= d and a chassis to mount it in.=20 Tracy Crook=20 On Sep 17, 2018, at 00:54, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com wrote: Hi Neil;=20 =C2=A0 I know it's tempting to cut a corner and use a carb to get flying fa= ster/cheaper, but I'd really try to stay with EFI. Many advantages. I know = you get screwed on shipping from across the pond which can make it hard to = swallow.=C2=A0 Here's a really half-baked, out of the box idea, that you could look into t= hat would save you a lot of money, take up all your remaining time, but giv= e you a ton of satisfaction. Arduino micro-controllers. I'm just starting t= o get into them while I'm building my own data-logger for my first generati= on EM2 and am absolutely amazed at some of the ideas people have used them = for. It's difficult to stay focused on my current objective and not stray d= own the garden path by getting distracted by all the things that can be don= e with them. Almost anything you can think of, someone has done with an Ard= uino.=C2=A0 They are an open-source hardware platform so there are many cheap clones av= ailable, with accessory shields for an almost unlimited number of gadgets. = There are open-source libraries of code available for almost any conceivabl= e project and I know in my browsing that I have seen some for engine igniti= on/injection. You can even pair up several (or more) micro-controllers for redundancy. Th= ere are great you-tube tutorials to get you started and I recommend you sta= rt right at the beginning. I know just enough to jump right in, but there w= ere enough things to trip me up that I finally went to the beginning and st= arted learning from scratch to fill in the gaps in my knowledge and now thi= s project is beginning to come together. =C2=A0 In most cases you don't need to wright your own code from scratch as= you can find libraries with other users code that you can modify to suit y= our own needs. It's not as crazy as it might sound and id I didn't already = have EC2 powering my plane, then I would probably attempt to make my own. Todd C-FSTB 13Bturbo=C2=A0 9.5 hours last week Todd Bartrim On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6:26 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: On 9/16/2018 7:33 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: On 9/16/2018 4:35 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: Gents, =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 The cost of an ECU is around the $3000 plus pos= sibly $4000 with a few fittings, which is substantial.=C2=A0 To simplify th= ings a standard carby with a basic ignition systems would take a lot of mon= ey from the project.=C2=A0 What alternatives are there for a simple cheap i= gnition system to replace an ECU? Neil Unger. Are you willing to change the trigger wheel? You could look at the Mega Jol= t (ignition only). It requires a 36-1 wheel, like Ford uses here in the USA= (might be the same down under). If you're interested in alternatives in full injection/ignition controllers= , the Micro Squirt & Mega Squirt systems can both be set up for a rotary. M= icro Squirt will have batch fired injectors (like almost all aftermarket sy= stems for aviation engines). Mega Squirt can be set up just about any way y= ou can dream up. The Micro Squirt controller with harness is about $400 US. The Mega Squirt = controller is about $600 US. The car guys love them. Here's a link to an RX-7 forum page on the Mega Squ= irt: https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/ Charlie Oops; forgot. Len Hanover has published a method using just a couple of tri= gger detectors and (IIRC) Chrysler ignition modules. Same can be done with = GM HEI modules. Downside is fixed timing.=20 Charlie =0DVirus-free. www.avast.com =0D --_2B6D1EF3-E59B-44A1-BDAC-728E1A6C7FD0_ Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"

Yeah I do, but I=E2=80=99m getting r= eady to head back to florida in a couple of weeks and the RV-8 won=E2=80=99= t fit in the trunk of an M240i.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99ll be building the replacem= ent forward fuselage floor and left gear tower in FL to bring back next spr= ing. =C2=A0=C2=A0Repairing this way means I=E2=80=99ll have to use a bunch = of expensive Cherry-max blind rivets but way cheaper than a new fuselage.= =C2=A0 I don=E2=80=99t think I had it in me to do that job anyway, would ha= ve had to write it off.=C2=A0

 

There is plenty of spare serial I/O on the Arduino so= I=E2=80=99m thinking the display for Lambda, RPM and fuel flow will be eas= y to include, as well as the MAP table etc. that is currently displayed on = the EM3. =C2=A0=C2=A0The other engine parameters like water & oil temps= & pressure, etc. will not be there since the EC3 doesn=E2=80=99t have = sensors for those.=C2=A0 The display will be optional, builder will have to= figure out packaging, mounting, etc. =C2=A0The electrical connections will= just be power and two wires for the serial data. =C2=A0=C2=A0

 

Tracy Crook

 

Sent from Mail for Windows = 10

 

From: <= /b>Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmai= l.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 5:50 PM
To: <= /b>Rotary motors in aircraft=
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: ignition system

 

Yeah, I'm reall= y happy to see you offering this, but I can't help but thinking... don't yo= u have an airplane to fix??

 <= /p>

but to echo Charlie, the PWM output for = in-tank fuel pumps would be a nice option. And an OBD2 or CAN output.

 

It would certainly be nice to see the EM3 combined with this, simpl= y because of the recent advances in cheap, large OLED screens would allow f= or a very nice and easily sunlight readable display screen, but I suspect i= t would be best and safest to keep these as separate instruments. As I've d= iscovered, the accidental grounding of any 5v sensor line has undesirable e= ffects on my engine monitor, so I'm happy to have the EM & EC separate = and just communicating data.

 =

Todd


Todd B= artrim

 

=

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net> wrote:


Integ= rating a sensor input array/engine monitor, and a driver for a display simi= lar to what your monitor and what Ed Anderson used to offer in his rotary m= onitor would be really nice. Or maybe OBD2 port that could interface with t= he already-available android apps & display on a phone/tablet, similar = to what the M*Squirt guys are doing now. A CAN bus that will talk to other = devices?

Oh, and two switch-selectable pressure-controlled PWM outp= uts that can drive a pair of automotive in-tank fuel pumps, so we can have = redundant vapor-free fuel delivery and eliminate the return line, like mode= rn cars.

How about full sequential injection? Would that help the li= ttle intermittent stumbles we hear when rotaries are idling?

I could= continue, since you're obviously a glutton for punishment and bored with r= epairing the -8....

;-)

Charlie






On 9/19/2018 3:59 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote:<= /o:p>

I'll post up dates an progress on= the Arduino software port.  If anyone has ideas to add/change, things= they like/don=E2=80=99t like about the EC2/3 or things that could be bette= r, let me know.  To the guy designing a thing the operation might be o= bvious but be terribly confusing to anyone else. 

 

Tracy Crook =


On Se= p 17, 2018, at 11:19, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Tracy;

&= nbsp; I'd be very interested in the software code for an Arduino/EC3 when i= t is ready. My Dad has given my 14 year old son his old jeep as a project t= o work on for the next few years until he can drive legally. I had already = been considering converting it to EFI as a good learning experience for him= and now hearing that the EC3 code will be available has convinced me that = we should do this. I'd already planned to buy him his own Arduino starter k= it just because I think there is a lot of educational value there, but with= a goal of building his own EFI for his own Jeep, there will be a lot of mo= tivation to learn. And it will be a great platform to test the design befor= e possibly trying it in any future aircraft builds.

 

Todd

<= /div>


Todd Bartrim

 

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 5:42 A= M, Tracy Crook rwst= racy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Totally agree= Todd,  the Arduino is a fantastic platform to develop engine controls= or avionics on.  Just for something to do (and because I=E2=80=99d li= ke to see an EFI solution available to anyone who wants one) I=E2=80=99ve s= tarted porting the EC3 software over to the Arduino.  I don=E2=80=99t = plan to sell them but will give the software to anyone who wants it.  = The cost to build would be little more than a $35 Arduino board and a chass= is to mount it in.

 

Tracy Crook


On Sep 17, 2018, at 00:54, Todd= Bartrim bartrim@gma= il.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Neil;

  I know it's tempting = to cut a corner and use a carb to get flying faster/cheaper, but I'd really= try to stay with EFI. Many advantages. I know you get screwed on shipping = from across the pond which can make it hard to swallow. 

Here's a really half-baked, out of the box idea, that= you could look into that would save you a lot of money, take up all your r= emaining time, but give you a ton of satisfaction. Arduino micro-controller= s. I'm just starting to get into them while I'm building my own data-logger= for my first generation EM2 and am absolutely amazed at some of the ideas = people have used them for. It's difficult to stay focused on my current obj= ective and not stray down the garden path by getting distracted by all the = things that can be done with them. Almost anything you can think of, someon= e has done with an Arduino. 

They a= re an open-source hardware platform so there are many cheap clones availabl= e, with accessory shields for an almost unlimited number of gadgets. There = are open-source libraries of code available for almost any conceivable proj= ect and I know in my browsing that I have seen some for engine ignition/inj= ection.

You can even pair up several (or= more) micro-controllers for redundancy. There are great you-tube tutorials= to get you started and I recommend you start right at the beginning. I kno= w just enough to jump right in, but there were enough things to trip me up = that I finally went to the beginning and started learning from scratch to f= ill in the gaps in my knowledge and now this project is beginning to come t= ogether.

  In most cases you don't = need to wright your own code from scratch as you can find libraries with ot= her users code that you can modify to suit your own needs. It's not as craz= y as it might sound and id I didn't already have EC2 powering my plane, the= n I would probably attempt to make my own.

 

Todd

=

C-FSTB

13Bturbo&nbs= p; 9.5 hours last week

 =


Todd Bartrim

 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6= :26 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

On 9/= 16/2018 7:33 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:

On 9/16/2018 4:35 PM, Neil= Unger 12348ung@gma= il.com wrote:

Gents,

       =            The cost of an= ECU is around the $3000 plus possibly $4000 with a few fittings, which is = substantial.  To simplify things a standard carby with a basic ignitio= n systems would take a lot of money from the project.  What alternativ= es are there for a simple cheap ignition system to replace an ECU?

N= eil Unger.

Are you willing to change t= he trigger wheel? You could look at the Mega Jolt (ignition only). It requi= res a 36-1 wheel, like Ford uses here in the USA (might be the same down un= der).

If you're interested in alternatives in full injection/ignitio= n controllers, the Micro Squirt & Mega Squirt systems can both be set u= p for a rotary. Micro Squirt will have batch fired injectors (like almost a= ll aftermarket systems for aviation engines). Mega Squirt can be set up jus= t about any way you can dream up.

The Micro Squirt controller with h= arness is about $400 US. The Mega Squirt controller is about $600 US.
The car guys love them. Here's a link to an RX-7 forum page on the Mega S= quirt:
https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/

Charli= e

Oops; forgot. Len Hanover has publis= hed a method using just a couple of trigger detectors and (IIRC) Chrysler i= gnition modules. Same can be done with GM HEI modules. Downside is fixed ti= ming.



Charlie

 

 

3D"http=

Virus-free. www.avast.com

<= o:p> 

 

= = --_2B6D1EF3-E59B-44A1-BDAC-728E1A6C7FD0_--