X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=O/h7h11W c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=0Q1YK9O9zG3sl5SEd3PLog==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=0qqORytXAAAA:8 a=_6GpL_ENAAAA:8 a=gMQSmnDXhbg6NCwW_jsA:9 a=vH3CPKN6lAryLyKc:21 a=ejGVreZtovWhM1fW:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=1PTJW2NwLYQ8I-YLqUYA:9 a=_EXg7y-fQq6IQt8b:21 a=oR4WNFo4RxcTU_h1:21 a=ZKs-yWgRPFgwBpZR:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Nj1bhqyGrdl6Az3_ctNx:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f47.google.com ([209.85.208.47] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11663639 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 17:50:16 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.47; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f47.google.com with SMTP id j62-v6so6129763edd.7 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:50:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ymEy3aeU4mMbs31G7EsWYkKiefEEZ1Q7XZIFeBH7xMw=; b=HJHE29JAF99MiwdamZYa4J0LtSBerQytBoBe5kupO56yF6vBZFQITqFX+JIZPWdmh5 W3NuI30FFUxk75QUkek8VNzT6Cg8BZboLzlKUltRk6rkPZswTG2KlIP8onf1Ycf7Qw4N kXeUuQsH8NsgBKDzvbeQRJEx2gszWIVBsJW6zmjCnpyaRl+YWFx/IaRE1asnCHxixfP6 UhPpPhSWAAPf68jICs9BFmaqSZ/mESgw2cOTB/4PiCBxw5ZKFOiRiJ5OdYF+xmbLvczU BJrTr3cxq7eKHAFLX1PvOZTlus/XHjOs20GLnAmUOy42oJzASFbdNR7ZOkm4Gy6K+1EF ifbg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ymEy3aeU4mMbs31G7EsWYkKiefEEZ1Q7XZIFeBH7xMw=; b=sZ/L8SOjKCJShiHT3i8TBujiGKwhyapBzMXeIO2VCPJvdw5kiWLoK6Z9Wzhpc7mWTP 6zZcQee/Q4a6LD50JSCL/WO7ijVydV1SsJO5Peql291UbwhhzSIaMjOT2Ke3fe50+GUN Fvk5WBjbSti4/ZLnxJAQY3JkcJwrwcUBd+xxfAueCYe5MVJoWqC5o4LV4I4qsqMdThlt usaWeABj3Zgy5Z5JH9UhfP37HYxhCejsEawXzNiSnqQMS8iqHGyLdOF/rvuUhsqvOsu0 FgxAi80Lfdm1IApljZ88/EOa/wuXgPYjNmlTReQYr1y0bwhbmu6jRAhgAejZvrFxqbnZ aMJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BvJEtUIe9M8k3n1p6N0+4UFgQ8DUq8g7uDu4akSZLPF9Oa9otF ctOzbiv1KQ1ZJrEUBbsE9/VqXyLRn/kwXmCgVCoR X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0Vdapr8Io1X8AfRIGMm3BDx0wSa/17qunVjA0T5PdBEJnsdgH3lyBR1e4P47YcASoMijzMon/iNwYXoD88G9qreQ= X-Received: by 2002:a50:a2e5:: with SMTP id 92-v6mr2818732edm.106.1537393798695; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:49:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a50:a5fd:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:49:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 14:49:57 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: ignition system To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000404f4805764063b9" --000000000000404f4805764063b9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, I'm really happy to see you offering this, but I can't help but thinking... don't you have an airplane to fix?? but to echo Charlie, the PWM output for in-tank fuel pumps would be a nice option. And an OBD2 or CAN output. It would certainly be nice to see the EM3 combined with this, simply because of the recent advances in cheap, large OLED screens would allow for a very nice and easily sunlight readable display screen, but I suspect it would be best and safest to keep these as separate instruments. As I've discovered, the accidental grounding of any 5v sensor line has undesirable effects on my engine monitor, so I'm happy to have the EM & EC separate and just communicating data. Todd Todd Bartrim On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Since you're offering.... ;-) > > Integrating a sensor input array/engine monitor, and a driver for a > display similar to what your monitor and what Ed Anderson used to offer i= n > his rotary monitor would be really nice. Or maybe OBD2 port that could > interface with the already-available android apps & display on a > phone/tablet, similar to what the M*Squirt guys are doing now. A CAN bus > that will talk to other devices? > > Oh, and two switch-selectable pressure-controlled PWM outputs that can > drive a pair of automotive in-tank fuel pumps, so we can have redundant > vapor-free fuel delivery and eliminate the return line, like modern cars. > > How about full sequential injection? Would that help the little > intermittent stumbles we hear when rotaries are idling? > > I could continue, since you're obviously a glutton for punishment and > bored with repairing the -8.... > > ;-) > > Charlie > > > > > > On 9/19/2018 3:59 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: > > I'll post up dates an progress on the Arduino software port. If anyone > has ideas to add/change, things they like/don=E2=80=99t like about the EC= 2/3 or > things that could be better, let me know. To the guy designing a thing t= he > operation might be obvious but be terribly confusing to anyone else. > > Tracy Crook > > On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:19, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Tracy; > I'd be very interested in the software code for an Arduino/EC3 when it > is ready. My Dad has given my 14 year old son his old jeep as a project t= o > work on for the next few years until he can drive legally. I had already > been considering converting it to EFI as a good learning experience for h= im > and now hearing that the EC3 code will be available has convinced me that > we should do this. I'd already planned to buy him his own Arduino starter > kit just because I think there is a lot of educational value there, but > with a goal of building his own EFI for his own Jeep, there will be a lot > of motivation to learn. And it will be a great platform to test the desig= n > before possibly trying it in any future aircraft builds. > > Todd > > Todd Bartrim > > On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 5:42 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Totally agree Todd, the Arduino is a fantastic platform to develop >> engine controls or avionics on. Just for something to do (and because I= =E2=80=99d >> like to see an EFI solution available to anyone who wants one) I=E2=80= =99ve started >> porting the EC3 software over to the Arduino. I don=E2=80=99t plan to s= ell them >> but will give the software to anyone who wants it. The cost to build wo= uld >> be little more than a $35 Arduino board and a chassis to mount it in. >> >> Tracy Crook >> >> On Sep 17, 2018, at 00:54, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >> Hi Neil; >> I know it's tempting to cut a corner and use a carb to get flying >> faster/cheaper, but I'd really try to stay with EFI. Many advantages. I >> know you get screwed on shipping from across the pond which can make it >> hard to swallow. >> Here's a really half-baked, out of the box idea, that you could look int= o >> that would save you a lot of money, take up all your remaining time, but >> give you a ton of satisfaction. Arduino micro-controllers. I'm just >> starting to get into them while I'm building my own data-logger for my >> first generation EM2 and am absolutely amazed at some of the ideas peopl= e >> have used them for. It's difficult to stay focused on my current objecti= ve >> and not stray down the garden path by getting distracted by all the thin= gs >> that can be done with them. Almost anything you can think of, someone ha= s >> done with an Arduino. >> They are an open-source hardware platform so there are many cheap clones >> available, with accessory shields for an almost unlimited number of >> gadgets. There are open-source libraries of code available for almost an= y >> conceivable project and I know in my browsing that I have seen some for >> engine ignition/injection. >> You can even pair up several (or more) micro-controllers for redundancy. >> There are great you-tube tutorials to get you started and I recommend yo= u >> start right at the beginning. I know just enough to jump right in, but >> there were enough things to trip me up that I finally went to the beginn= ing >> and started learning from scratch to fill in the gaps in my knowledge an= d >> now this project is beginning to come together. >> In most cases you don't need to wright your own code from scratch as >> you can find libraries with other users code that you can modify to suit >> your own needs. It's not as crazy as it might sound and id I didn't alre= ady >> have EC2 powering my plane, then I would probably attempt to make my own= . >> >> Todd >> C-FSTB >> 13Bturbo 9.5 hours last week >> >> >> Todd Bartrim >> >> On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6:26 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> On 9/16/2018 7:33 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>>> On 9/16/2018 4:35 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Gents, >>>>> >>>>> The cost of an ECU is around the $3000 plus possibl= y >>>>> $4000 with a few fittings, which is substantial. To simplify things = a >>>>> standard carby with a basic ignition systems would take a lot of mone= y from >>>>> the project. What alternatives are there for a simple cheap ignition >>>>> system to replace an ECU? >>>>> >>>>> Neil Unger. >>>>> >>>> Are you willing to change the trigger wheel? You could look at the Meg= a >>>> Jolt (ignition only). It requires a 36-1 wheel, like Ford uses here in= the >>>> USA (might be the same down under). >>>> >>>> If you're interested in alternatives in full injection/ignition >>>> controllers, the Micro Squirt & Mega Squirt systems can both be set up= for >>>> a rotary. Micro Squirt will have batch fired injectors (like almost al= l >>>> aftermarket systems for aviation engines). Mega Squirt can be set up j= ust >>>> about any way you can dream up. >>>> >>>> The Micro Squirt controller with harness is about $400 US. The Mega >>>> Squirt controller is about $600 US. >>>> >>>> The car guys love them. Here's a link to an RX-7 forum page on the Meg= a >>>> Squirt: >>>> https://www.rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/ >>>> >>>> Charlie >>>> >>> Oops; forgot. Len Hanover has published a method using just a couple of >>> trigger detectors and (IIRC) Chrysler ignition modules. Same can be don= e >>> with GM HEI modules. Downside is fixed timing. >>> >>> >>> Charlie >>> >> > > > Virus-free= . > www.avast.com > > <#m_-419163467999331886_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > --000000000000404f4805764063b9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yeah, I'm really happy to see you offering this, but I= can't help but thinking... don't you have an airplane to fix??
but to echo Charlie, the PWM output for in-tank fuel pumps = would be a nice option. And an OBD2 or CAN output.

It would certainly be nice to see the EM3 combined with this, simply becau= se of the recent advances in cheap, large OLED screens would allow for a ve= ry nice and easily sunlight readable display screen, but I suspect it would= be best and safest to keep these as separate instruments. As I've disc= overed, the accidental grounding of any 5v sensor line has undesirable effe= cts on my engine monitor, so I'm happy to have the EM & EC separate= and just communicating data.

Todd

Todd Bartrim

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 2:30 PM, Charlie Eng= land ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Since you're of= fering.... ;-)

Integrating a sensor input array/engine monitor, and a driver for a display similar to what your monitor and what Ed Anderson used to offer in his rotary monitor would be really nice. Or maybe OBD2 port that could interface with the already-available android apps & display on a phone/tablet, similar to what the M*Squirt guys are doing now. A CAN bus that will talk to other devices?

Oh, and two switch-selectable pressure-controlled PWM outputs that can drive a pair of automotive in-tank fuel pumps, so we can have redundant vapor-free fuel delivery and eliminate the return line, like modern cars.

How about full sequential injection? Would that help the little intermittent stumbles we hear when rotaries are idling?

I could continue, since you're obviously a glutton for punishment and bored with repairing the -8....

;-)

Charlie





On 9/19/2018 3:59 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote:
=20 I'll post up dates an progress on the Arduino software port.=C2= =A0 If anyone has ideas to add/change, things they like/don=E2=80=99t like a= bout the EC2/3 or things that could be better, let me know.=C2=A0 To the g= uy designing a thing the operation might be obvious but be terribly confusing to anyone else.=C2=A0

Tracy Crook

On Sep 17, 2018, at 11:19, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Tracy;
=C2=A0 I'd be very interested in the software code= for an Arduino/EC3 when it is ready. My Dad has given my 14 year old son his old jeep as a project to work on for the next few years until he can drive legally. I had already been considering converting it to EFI as a good learning experience for him and now hearing that the EC3 code will be available has convinced me that we should do this. I'd already planned to buy him his own Arduino starter kit just because I think there is a lot of educational value there, but with a goal of building his own EFI for his own Jeep, there will be a lot of motivation to learn. And it will be a great platform to test the design before possibly trying it in any future aircraft builds.

Todd

Todd Bartrim

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 5:42 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:
Totally agree Todd, =C2=A0the Arduino= is a fantastic platform to develop engine controls or avionics on.=C2=A0 Just for something to do (and because I=E2=80=99d like to see an EFI solution avail= able to anyone who wants one) I=E2=80=99ve started porting= the EC3 software over to the Arduino.=C2=A0 I don=E2=80= =99t plan to sell them but will give the software to anyone who wants it.=C2=A0 The cost to build would be little mor= e than a $35 Arduino board and a chassis to mount it in.

Tracy Crook

On Sep 17, 2018, at 00:54, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Hi Neil;
=C2=A0 I know it's tempting to= cut a corner and use a carb to get flying faster/cheaper, but I'd really try to stay with EFI. Many advantages. I know you get screwed on shipping from across the pond which can make it hard to swallow.=C2=A0
Here's a really half-baked, ou= t of the box idea, that you could look into that would save you a lot of money, take up all your remaining time, but give you a ton of satisfaction. Arduino micro-controllers. I'm just starting to get into them while I'm building my own data-logger for my first generation EM2 and am absolutely amazed at some of the ideas people have used them for. It's difficult to stay focused on my current objective and not stray down the garden path by getting distracted by all the things that can be done with them. Almost anything you can think of, someone has done with an Arduino.=C2=A0
They are an open-source hardware platform so there are many cheap clones available, with accessory shields for an almost unlimited number of gadgets. There are open-source libraries of code available for almost any conceivable project and I know in my browsing that I have seen some for engine ignition/injection.
You can even pair up several (or more) micro-controllers for redundancy. There are great you-tube tutorials to get you started and I recommend you start right at the beginning. I know just enough to jump right in, but there were enough things to trip me up that I finally went to the beginning and started learning from scratch to fill in the gaps in my knowledge and now this project is beginning to come together.
=C2=A0 In most cases you don't= need to wright your own code from scratch as you can find libraries with other users code that you can modify to suit your own needs. It's not as crazy as it might sound and id I didn't already hav= e EC2 powering my plane, then I would probably attempt to make my own.

Todd
C-FSTB
13Bturbo=C2=A0 9.5 hours last week=


Todd Bartrim

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 6:26 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:
= On 9/16/2018 7:33 PM, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote:
On 9/16/2018 4:35 PM, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote:
Gents,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= The cost of an ECU is around the $3000 plus possibly $4000 with a few fittings, which is substantial.=C2=A0 To simplify things a standard carby with a basic ignition systems would take a lot of money from the project.=C2=A0 What alternatives are there for a simple cheap ignition system to replace an ECU?

Neil Unger.
Are you willing to change the trigger wheel? You could look at the Mega Jolt (ignition only). It requires a 36-1 wheel, like Ford uses here in the USA (might be the same down under).

If you're interested in alternatives in full injection/ignition controllers, the Micro Squirt & Mega Squirt systems can both be set up for a rotary. Micro Squirt will have batch fired injectors (like almost all aftermarket systems for aviation engines). Mega Squirt can be set up just about any way you can dream up.

The Micro Squirt controller with harness is about $400 US. The Mega Squirt controller is about $600 US.
The car guys love them. Here's a link to an RX-7 forum page on the Mega Squirt:
https://www= .rx7club.com/megasquirt-forum-153/

Charlie
 Oops; forgot. Len Hanover has published a method using just a couple of trigger detectors and (IIRC) Chrysler ignition modules. Same can be done with GM HEI modules. Downside is fixed timing.


Charlie


3D"" Virus-free. www.avast.com

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