X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=C7Kr8kH+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=lBEaSHRq0EQX3IuqbOyx9w==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=TPB0gybzSFkA:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=j4le78bewvtP9T7ksmcA:9 a=ewIZycLRRnJTiTTG:21 a=wSBXbRaBdJz-pWt_:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=YR7cTNfL-F3ZpvDEnQkA:9 a=JPlu188PMeYWWQps:21 a=rGt4CDOk9TFibYPG:21 a=hh7CSRvgYCNskAk5:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 From: "Robert McMillan robmcmillanpls@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi0-f43.google.com ([209.85.218.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11595436 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:07:29 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.43; envelope-from=robmcmillanpls@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 8-v6so30789215oip.0 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 17:07:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=xZakhLWba87RtZ1kIrJezOD2l1WGUPQqgOJqzrPf/b0=; b=Hia76nWuQOAh72h4i74YtFGqFDhFMV4X/L632SBsA/5E/ft6AVlOcuf39MMlHgWxIs B5nELyTkC/lgysBv2OArtp0Ae7TT8/lsAy1TlnyBJBaJ+MTFluywED+k9aUE96vxLW9s PuFxTlnNZ2hxVbki7ePJu5pfeyUJaYc8qsrodXuU9sV14XblpYM5g2Q/YvQMV+mIP14v Og69ZPt1ykNWZodoswJfz8WVruWKP/vUtmSAGW06kJu93Gn48uB5HKfnovVUOIRoKBsN 3KzNYqzcnFowAmRRfMOfiS0KzZhzEvFyaQeIieHkA176W0er330fsu8koysEmnCwc9Yw 7hlw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=xZakhLWba87RtZ1kIrJezOD2l1WGUPQqgOJqzrPf/b0=; b=VLaSmQ4I8KSfhZkcB86Z4S2lkdAwaCuMjRTozAr/leWd6Nfw7BSWUw5YmJPEs5pzJX U4WGlaQvk0BO/AzZLN3pK2lmClW/p1jO1UEVOY6BYQj5Rzih8VrCjSR/ngSBsRuoWUEk bksOiTeLW4COCZ+dTcDpIfrxZZHhP8dj9Oly94HfaDTvVYULKA7BGWzBkdnumDUBiU0q TTtKAlsdA2kpmRhYyes8F4GVC/4o2bjBzLb2bOd/ondyM+9dh2FbmEzDrO2SwZf++ImF N6aVWwFngCHiq2Z/ZTRcHehVbsJMBBX3OIEWyGCIVpjbsEPHhqPvFIWNPW2v/elilOp8 S2Jw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51A2nkdqbaHHWUVH93Sk/2w6WGHQjb0t55c++FbICg1LLXnSsxHW m+B2WoqAYroP12nRC4/r/+kJhKxTV9EuuCS8S2ca7w== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdZhw5cDV+fcjjn7zeCkTeWekXuTjIvEt9c264Q0iePa7dfojd7FmsHhtQ4JkLvzV+1CsfHQohdnW5TzFNvRTp0= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e795:: with SMTP id e143-v6mr17541051oih.252.1535933233662; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 17:07:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 17:07:02 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: wiring / incident report To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ca8e690574ec52eb" --000000000000ca8e690574ec52eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Glad you are ok. Sounds like the RV is repairable. Take care, Rob On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 9:16 AM Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Good comments Bobby. RFI (radio frequency interference) is an age old > problem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. > > The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables, > antennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor fr= om > the map sensor output to ground. I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO = so don=E2=80=99t > have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably = in the > archives here somewhere. > > I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. Here are the= gory > details. > I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago. Just as I was approaching > rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder force= d > me off the left side of the runway. Did I mention it was a STRONG gust? > The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as > the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff. > > That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. > There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear > hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid > succession. The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all th= e > attach points to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel. > As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing > puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit > of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain t= he tank very > quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward. BTW, This was th= e > left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup. > > I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiw= ay and > running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches > tall. It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the sid= e > of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an > accordion. Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward atta= ch > point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank whi= le > folding up causing fuel to start pouring out. > > Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical > energy of the impact launched me into the air. Time to fly the airplane. > Not enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but > controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern. It was at this > point I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel li= ne > enters the fuselage. The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing > out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray sto= ps > before I get serious about that. The plane is behaving oddly, the main > thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be. I began the > takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, > the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the > left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact. The > linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the > airspeed starts coming up. > > I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear > leg and wheel are still attached. I radio Unicom requesting a visual che= ck > of my gear but no one is on. I worry momentarily about there being enoug= h > fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, > etc but make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other > than controlling the plane at the moment. That=E2=80=99s the best advice= I can > give anyone in a situation like this. > > The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the > decision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. Not > sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement. Did= a > full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber > instead aluminum touching down was amazing. The gear was far too distort= ed > to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runw= ay > and right side up. > > There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get > the plane back in the hangar. They took a look at it and said something > like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. They had a ha= rd time believing > it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. #MeToo! > =F0=9F=98=B1 > > Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing inciden= t > that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8. I checked to see > what he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try > repairing so ended up replacing the entire fuselage. I=E2=80=99m going t= o repair > instead. Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable.= I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the > removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back toget= her when I > return next spring. > > Tracy Crook > > On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Andrew, > > I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to > stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fue= l level > readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not > sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine > on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin > that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coa= x > away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different antenna locations > more to the rear of the aircraft. > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, > with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B EC= U > rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring a= s > I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cabl= e > by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works > better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as > Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the > circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the > injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only > happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its > flying. > > Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it > could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and > components losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery. > > Andrew > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip? >> Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker ratin= g >> from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & brea= ker >> rating? >> >> Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have >> always used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, th= at >> way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused = it. >> btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a >> screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either t= o >> say it wont happen in the air. >> Andrew >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it. Bu= t >>> I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane. Just a personal= hang up. >>> Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even o= n >>> non flight critical stuff. >>> >>> Tracy Crook >>> >> >> > --000000000000ca8e690574ec52eb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Glad you are ok. Sounds like the RV is repairable.

Take care,
Rob

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 9:16 AM Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Good comments Bobby. =C2=A0 RFI = (radio frequency interference) is an age old problem with electronics when = working with nearby radio transmitters. =C2=A0=C2=A0

The= EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables, antenn= as etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor from the m= ap sensor output to ground.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO so= don=E2=80=99t have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80= =99s probably in the archives here somewhere.

I=E2= =80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. =C2=A0 Here are the = gory details.=C2=A0
=C2=A0I had an incident on takeoff a few week= s ago.=C2=A0 Just as I was approaching rotation speed a strong crosswind gu= st that overpowered full rudder forced me off the left side of the runway.= =C2=A0 Did I mention it was a STRONG gust?=C2=A0 The ground was reasonably = smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as the safer option since I was= within a second or two from liftoff.=C2=A0

That p= lan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway.=C2=A0 There = was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear hit this= obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid succession.=C2= =A0 The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all the attach po= ints to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel.=C2=A0 As it= did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing punctu= ring the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit of good= fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain the tank v= ery quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward.=C2=A0 BTW, This= was the left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup.

I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edg= e of the taxiway and running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstac= le about 8 inches tall.=C2=A0 It was too much vertical load for the structu= re to bear so the side of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and fo= lded like an accordion.=C2=A0 Since this is the area of the fuselage where = the forward attach point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of = the fuel tank while folding up causing fuel to start pouring out. =C2=A0

Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff s= peed, the vertical energy of the impact launched me into the air.=C2=A0 Tim= e to fly the airplane.=C2=A0 Not enough room to land straight ahead, the ai= rplane feels 'funny' but controllable so I turn downwind for a clos= e in pattern.=C2=A0 It was at this point I noticed the fuel spraying into t= he cockpit down where the fuel line enters the fuselage.=C2=A0 The fumes ar= e so strong that I worry about passing out or fire and think about jettison= ing the canopy but the fuel spray stops before I get serious about that.=C2= =A0 The plane is behaving oddly, the main thing being the airspeed is way l= ower than it should be.=C2=A0 I began the takeoff with no flaps but then I = notice that they are now at full flaps, the throttle quadrant and flap cont= rol switch are mounted just above the left gear so the switch must have bee= n forced on during the impact.=C2=A0 The linkage to the switch is intact so= I take off all the flaps and the airspeed starts coming up. =C2=A0

I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or ev= en if the gear leg and wheel are still attached.=C2=A0 I radio Unicom reque= sting a visual check of my gear but no one is on.=C2=A0 I worry momentarily= about there being enough fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, st= ate of the landing gear, etc but make the conscious effort to stop worrying= about anything other than controlling the plane at the moment.=C2=A0 That= =E2=80=99s the best advice I can give anyone in a situation like this.=C2= =A0

The rest of the pattern went 'normally'= ;, the only difference being the decision on whether to land on or to the s= ide of the paved runway. =C2=A0 Not sure it was the right choice in retrosp= ect but I chose the pavement.=C2=A0 Did a full flap soft field landing appr= oach and the relief of feeling rubber instead aluminum touching down was am= azing.=C2=A0 The gear was far too distorted to maintain normal control but = I came to a stop off the left side of runway and right side up.=C2=A0
=

There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the h= elp needed to get the plane back in the hangar. =C2=A0 They took a look at = it and said something like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80= =9D. =C2=A0 =C2=A0They had a hard time believing it happened on takeoff and= made it around the pattern like that. =C2=A0#MeToo! =C2=A0=F0=9F=98=B1

Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did ha= ve a landing incident that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8.= =C2=A0 I checked to see what he decided about repairing and he determined h= e would not try repairing so ended up replacing the entire fuselage.=C2=A0 = I=E2=80=99m going to repair instead.=C2=A0 Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2= =80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable. I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the removal= of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back together when = I return next spring.

Tracy Crook
<= br>On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Andrew,=C2=A0

I originally had an SL-30 a= nd keying the mike would cause the engine to stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99= s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fuel level readings (EFIS) when tra= nsmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80=99m not sure what radio. M= y 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine on the ground but n= ot noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin that helps with this = problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coax away from EC wiring s= hould help. Sam tested different antenna locations more to the rear of the = aircraft.=C2=A0

Bobby



S= ent from my iPad

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net&g= t; wrote:

Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, w= ith independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B E= CU rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring = as I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cab= le by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works = better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as Tr= acy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the circui= t board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the injectors ar= e going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only happen in flight= which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its flying.
=

Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. a= s now I think it could be something to do with the battery being moved for = CoG and components losing their independent feeds & ground back to the = battery.

Andrew

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Mar= tin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary= @lancaironline.net> wrote:
=
Interested to know what usually causes the b= reaker to trip?
Is it common to get an amp draw intermittent= ly higher than breaker rating from components that does not really justify = increasing wire size & breaker rating?

Up unti= l this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have always used fu= ses & wire size much higher than component requirement, that way if a f= use blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused it. btw. only= time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a screwdiver = where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either to say = it wont happen in the air.
Andrew


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rw= stracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net> wrote:
I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it.=C2= =A0 But I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane.=C2=A0 Just a= personal hang up.=C2=A0 Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me = lots of times, even on non flight critical stuff. =C2=A0

Tracy Crook


= --000000000000ca8e690574ec52eb--