X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=C7Kr8kH+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=OoaFXe+g/VdhdOs1JzoF+Q==:117 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=QRJ_mazH754g5Vtj-DEA:9 a=miDybllP_hYkXL2l:21 a=qeF4eThxmvJ3SYVd:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=br7kKLazzyK1i1gHoL0A:9 a=hdYPOG3ACi9zlcS2:21 a=2SLgHAzIENHuNimB:21 a=B0EKAwQe7iyvCNCs:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 From: "Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au" Received: from mail-qt0-f181.google.com ([209.85.216.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11595326 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 18:34:17 -0400 Received-SPF: none receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.216.181; envelope-from=andrew@martinag.com.au Received: by mail-qt0-f181.google.com with SMTP id h4-v6so20071270qtj.7 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:34:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=martinag-com-au.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=AGE+ZwY8Ig5T+VPaE6jCI5jnZdHhCIne61nFO6Le5wE=; b=zB7YvJBKfBTDaAcmX89NKiTO4Qp7nvpmeS7bqZ8lzjEORaoJniJ6JcpdSrqWlGiLof Z2pzVtUfFEY8sRbkBznUvXvHPbiVg2UJF34wxVYv82eyu3J2z+DOj/k6zsVSpNO1PJfc y19GufK2w1A37fWWebYxbg/jXNd+rPubR8gVIuN3rOLFGiW6kWDlDHWG5AAFKszGdzIN SWsqeTKiqTh660S0xmPk/6ScZKE67qe3pE87Ga/RlvmKkfpzVwTG1TPmJryO1G5rSYk6 iYmPKU9uPJzUpYgRzfrZ/IfSlOlFlJAuWL1ISQlkfb6GXyfenizDqWaXra3o2gnCo/Ug Ot6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=AGE+ZwY8Ig5T+VPaE6jCI5jnZdHhCIne61nFO6Le5wE=; b=bCA8uXfGr5NzzeaLOtWazWheL5/EJM96TnoNaq+RHLJfIIfPs7iLuncg+v00MYCBki 12WmaL/+GembaRnyRymA2o/CT1q3zrliDZudSCax3F477vANvrbU6eudntGZm57i+jVc OGgm6QGSCjq2WKQ5kGiZgj/X6xG55uQOfQSZT41B77jphHuTtgnNxdx56NuvyRwv66BV tT+kq3x/sEmCa7xicovzjoK93GpXVhXrvSYXjvRk2YZjp94UqUiqOKzKqZn29uu6R0SE CpSoKBg+CbhCzqv4A7J5QQz+VXPceOGGtXjgHjnFuTdtdxHYzSWpKQxfHGdIdPQES2Fm hBnw== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51Cf5pQ0/Keg1Li8ep+mqbFI8/9gCNiALbGrGPVBdmwVoopnNna1 xRe0gW8OJYpfI5wblzbWPdU1TgwKvAPZvhsjS0A/YB4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYwpXUizmgwUk+a54R8MNU9vJFPBGN2yA5szP/SnVtCTuh3pGVz0tR59ajLFSJGL13I9wCKdKX9l+lrJTxP0yw= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:d947:: with SMTP id t7-v6mr23539295qvj.109.1535927640242; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 15:34:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 06:33:48 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: wiring / incident report To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000065d6f70574eb053a" --00000000000065d6f70574eb053a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow. Good job getting yourself back on the ground safely and to be able to tell your story. And thankyou for replying to my comparitivly insignificant issue. I had installed the .1uf cap a couple of years ago when the issue first appeared and it seemed to be fixed. This time its reapeared after I=E2=80= =99ve cleaned up the radio wiring that was causing just a bit of noise in the headset on transmission. Seemed I had mistakenly connected a sheild wire between radio & efis both ends effectivly connecting headset ground to airframe ground.fixing this has made radio better. I just keep thinking it has to be a grounding issue so will continue checking resistance through every connection. The AP (Bill Keenher) that issued my CoA flys the most georgous RV that he rebuilt after it had a nosegear collapse & ended up on its back. Looked like it should have been scrapped but you wouldnt know it now. Your plane done its job by absorbing the forces and protecting you. Cudos to a great design. Andrew On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 at 12:15 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Good comments Bobby. RFI (radio frequency interference) is an age old > problem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. > > The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables, > antennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor fr= om > the map sensor output to ground. I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO = so don=E2=80=99t > have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably = in the > archives here somewhere. > > I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. Here are the= gory > details. > I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago. Just as I was approaching > rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder force= d > me off the left side of the runway. Did I mention it was a STRONG gust? > The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as > the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff. > > That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. > There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear > hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid > succession. The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all th= e > attach points to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel. > As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing > puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit > of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain t= he tank very > quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward. BTW, This was th= e > left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup. > > I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiw= ay and > running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches > tall. It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the sid= e > of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an > accordion. Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward atta= ch > point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank whi= le > folding up causing fuel to start pouring out. > > Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical > energy of the impact launched me into the air. Time to fly the airplane. > Not enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but > controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern. It was at this > point I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel li= ne > enters the fuselage. The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing > out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray sto= ps > before I get serious about that. The plane is behaving oddly, the main > thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be. I began the > takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, > the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the > left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact. The > linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the > airspeed starts coming up. > > I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear > leg and wheel are still attached. I radio Unicom requesting a visual che= ck > of my gear but no one is on. I worry momentarily about there being enoug= h > fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, > etc but make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other > than controlling the plane at the moment. That=E2=80=99s the best advice= I can > give anyone in a situation like this. > > The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the > decision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. Not > sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement. Did= a > full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber > instead aluminum touching down was amazing. The gear was far too distort= ed > to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runw= ay > and right side up. > > There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get > the plane back in the hangar. They took a look at it and said something > like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. They had a ha= rd time believing > it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. #MeToo! > =F0=9F=98=B1 > > Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing inciden= t > that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8. I checked to see > what he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try > repairing so ended up replacing the entire fuselage. I=E2=80=99m going t= o repair > instead. Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable.= I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the > removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back toget= her when I > return next spring. > > Tracy Crook > > On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Andrew, > > I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to > stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fue= l level > readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not > sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine > on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin > that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coa= x > away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different antenna locations > more to the rear of the aircraft. > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, > with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B EC= U > rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring a= s > I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cabl= e > by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works > better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as > Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the > circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the > injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only > happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its > flying. > > Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it > could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and > components losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery. > > Andrew > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip? >> Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker ratin= g >> from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & brea= ker >> rating? >> >> Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have >> always used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, th= at >> way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused = it. >> btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a >> screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either t= o >> say it wont happen in the air. >> Andrew >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it. Bu= t >>> I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane. Just a personal= hang up. >>> Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even o= n >>> non flight critical stuff. >>> >>> Tracy Crook >>> >> >> > -- Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag --00000000000065d6f70574eb053a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow. Good job getting yourself back on the ground sa= fely and to be able to tell your story. And thankyou for replying to my com= paritivly insignificant issue.

I had installed the .1uf cap a couple of years ago when the is= sue first appeared and it seemed to be fixed. This time its reapeared after= I=E2=80=99ve cleaned up the radio wiring that was causing just a bit of no= ise in the headset on transmission. Seemed I had mistakenly connected a she= ild wire between radio & efis both ends effectivly connecting headset g= round to airframe ground.fixing this has made radio better. I just keep thi= nking it has to be a grounding issue so will continue checking resistance t= hrough every connection.

The AP (Bill Keenher) that issued my CoA flys the most georgous RV that he= rebuilt after it had a nosegear collapse & ended up on its back. Looke= d like it should have been scrapped but you wouldnt know it now. Your plane= done its job by absorbing the forces and protecting you. Cudos to a great = design.

Andrew

On Mon, 3 Sep 2018 at 12:1= 5 am, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com<= /a> <flyrotary@lancaironl= ine.net> wrote:
Good comments Bobby. =C2=A0 RFI (radio frequency interference) is an = age old problem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitter= s. =C2=A0=C2=A0

The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the= cases where relocating cables, antennas etc. was not successful has been t= o install a .1 uf capacitor from the map sensor output to ground.=C2=A0 I= =E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO so don=E2=80=99t have all my files wi= th the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably in the archives here s= omewhere.

I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that= stays here in CO. =C2=A0 Here are the gory details.=C2=A0
=C2=A0= I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago.=C2=A0 Just as I was approachi= ng rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder forc= ed me off the left side of the runway.=C2=A0 Did I mention it was a STRONG = gust?=C2=A0 The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the t= akeoff as the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff.= =C2=A0

That plan went fine until I hit the edge of= an intersecting taxiway.=C2=A0 There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at t= he edge and when my left gear hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following ev= ents happened in rapid succession.=C2=A0 The left wheel pant impacting the = taxiway edge caused all the attach points to break away and it began to rot= ate underneath the wheel.=C2=A0 As it did, the sharp point at the rear impa= cted the underside of the wing puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing t= ank. (This was the single bit of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The ho= le was big enough to drain the tank very quickly had it been a couple of in= ches further forward.=C2=A0 BTW, This was the left side tank that always fe= eds the engine on my setup.

I=E2=80=99m guessing t= he combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiway and running over the = wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches tall.=C2=A0 It was t= oo much vertical load for the structure to bear so the side of the fuselage= above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an accordion.=C2=A0 Since th= is is the area of the fuselage where the forward attach point of the fuel t= ank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank while folding up causing= fuel to start pouring out. =C2=A0

Since at this p= oint I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical energy of the impac= t launched me into the air.=C2=A0 Time to fly the airplane.=C2=A0 Not enoug= h room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but contr= ollable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern.=C2=A0 It was at this poi= nt I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel line en= ters the fuselage.=C2=A0 The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing= out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray stop= s before I get serious about that.=C2=A0 The plane is behaving oddly, the m= ain thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be.=C2=A0 I began = the takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps= , the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the = left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact.=C2=A0 T= he linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the airs= peed starts coming up. =C2=A0

I know I must have a= damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear leg and wheel are still= attached.=C2=A0 I radio Unicom requesting a visual check of my gear but no= one is on.=C2=A0 I worry momentarily about there being enough fuel left in= the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, etc but make = the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other than controlling= the plane at the moment.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s the best advice I can give a= nyone in a situation like this.=C2=A0

The rest of = the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the decision= on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. =C2=A0 Not sure = it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement.=C2=A0 Did a= full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber ins= tead aluminum touching down was amazing.=C2=A0 The gear was far too distort= ed to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of run= way and right side up.=C2=A0

There were the usual = airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get the plane back in the h= angar. =C2=A0 They took a look at it and said something like =E2=80=9CThat = is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0 =C2=A0They had a hard time bel= ieving it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. =C2= =A0#MeToo! =C2=A0=F0=9F=98=B1

Matt Dralle who runs= one of the RV forum sites did have a landing incident that resulted in exa= ctly the same damage on his RV-8.=C2=A0 I checked to see what he decided ab= out repairing and he determined he would not try repairing so ended up repl= acing the entire fuselage.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m going to repair instead.=C2=A0= Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable. I=E2=80=99= ve almost completed the removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the pa= rts and put back together when I return next spring.

Tracy Crook

On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes= bhughes@qnsi.net= <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Andrew,=C2=A0

I originally had an SL-30 and keyin= g the mike would cause the engine to stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 = would cause erratic capacitance fuel level readings (EFIS) when transmittin= g. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80=99m not sure what radio. My 430w c= auses a small change in the sound of the engine on the ground but not notic= eable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin that helps with this problem.= Using double shielded coax, keeping the coax away from EC wiring should he= lp. Sam tested different antenna locations more to the rear of the aircraft= .=C2=A0

Bobby



Sent from = my iPad

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au= <flyro= tary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 c= ircuits, leading/trailing, with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can c= heck ignition on A & B ECU rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also c= leaned up a bit more wiring as I had inadvertently created a ground loop on= my radio to efis serial cable by connecting the shield to ground at both e= nds by mistake. Radio works better but now an old problem has returned that= I thought I had fixed as Tracy had years ago, given instructions on instal= ling some part to the circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine mi= sses, think the injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. se= ems to only happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot= know its flying.

Going to try rewiring compo= nents back to the battery. as now I think it could be something to do with = the battery being moved for CoG and components losing their independent fee= ds & ground back to the battery.
Andrew

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Mar= tin andrew@mart= inag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrot= e:
Intereste= d to know what usually causes the breaker to trip?
Is it com= mon to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker rating from compo= nents that does not really justify increasing wire size & breaker ratin= g?

Up until this corrosion incident fuses have wor= ked for me, But have always used fuses & wire size much higher than com= ponent requirement, that way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault = somewhere that caused it. btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground = when some idiot stuck a screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I ha= ven't flown much either to say it wont happen in the air.
And= rew


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I use Corrosion X on any electrica= l connection I think may need it.=C2=A0 But I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on an= ything in the airplane.=C2=A0 Just a personal hang up.=C2=A0 Having a manua= lly resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even on non flight criti= cal stuff. =C2=A0

Tracy Crook


= --
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
--00000000000065d6f70574eb053a--