X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=C7Kr8kH+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=4XPmiNy8o3I/hRdqE5XTgg==:117 a=hvdUc6MvEZ498mhnt5Du8w==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=e8BSqymJ620A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=XQigk7xY2a8A:10 a=XkjuTGnvh84A:10 a=glYVDZ00AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=OMgnLrDm7JWNW3DGBsgA:9 a=fVOshER0UDXmdziV:21 a=PBte6wiX4Vdxxgnm:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=BFld5mc1DsH9TjxfuNAA:9 a=sRHm_Pe_ve-iw0RH:21 a=HSSIcj_pXRLdlojt:21 a=kT1Rn29xZlnz0FYV:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=bO_3KguoFRSCCSHueOk6:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 From: "A R Goldman argoldman@aol.com" Received: from sonic304-12.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com ([74.6.128.35] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTP id 11594962 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 16:15:34 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.6.128.35; envelope-from=argoldman@aol.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=aol.com; s=a2048; t=1535919300; bh=N46knC0kaoUv3qQqDkZyO5zbo5CP4O+1h1W3PidrUKg=; h=From:Date:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:To:From:Subject; b=JR+kS2KpEJ9uZ1JEnfgLgen36vWjrcrQbsFCvTQaVRW8EKRTqHZuFTxFS6UmJX7fBburckeyqajszdRqTomeCkubNEaKqf7LDmy74lnB8mAyY0YMOIosQv/S7Sd6oY9nR7onOSIfIk3TdXmu+6C548Zv5mxhFsBqhpUNmtfPUEENpPvBLcTG8UeLZXJ9HugXnw3s7SG3ehA3b3nj40Z8RmyLr44lIZGogxrURubzbNKGeY8YPAkn2ns2NQP2Nb52QxkMcC1pP+d4cP06r2yNJNOI+tEB5/EpPPAWiPwGp+5WbFBM5xNsXHK0c3tvcIBAJ7jmsnkXriG/HCyPlt5/2A== X-YMail-OSG: VZkIGT4VM1nUfUBG8vNyjUFRFFLtvft1n7mwAUBRSPlNeeIR6skdZBexN7NW4Wu vnvOvTTVX47RlHyWZb_4BZmAQdygJ6uJlXJsI9di3aisMMJJu_1XCOMjhfi1odIAqUkqoWIzpuQT eNzfZ8PaYsweE54CYsU23DVYfz3lpfImHlp0tefTEEuFRirsARnKtVBwHWFuAnS.KISU0HVyoaZY lKB1yyHkmSTbptSJs60MLAzYi6I2aG5sTkadb8lB59sVH45QJHijBEvmdNvFQScZ977P.84.ySU7 zDMIrCeB20WO59wNSnOjSbPMFrG7CkVHEEJazNrwJWgjDCbeQm1Y0fyNeLk0y3HwyTza434yrUbq NNGoQZnH7X3nB7nHwJ3Ovtn7pxSbJI_D577NxLLjp0thuxiSbmTad3t6fVNqsWp0ZaUrDQRoV_cD xTstIxhleB5eMoa_Dx3DXsGOtUBLsKCHFyUuS4sH7WNp7rOhNzzHrupdMQymz13iHdh3wt2S6Hm8 OdXCBPLIM6dYFEfGhyOIOCmY7JB4zBIe3NpGbfjV7DwxTF8GhCCIRZ2phpHeCZ0N97r4shlbZXYh YsN9PR5KAJz7oB6U6fei4Osv14g.ELZKH.xgD6xwbwGTHlBAhzezRdDgH4HVQBMlTZeGReXyGqSM gNtdPiWFbufzqao7agFN8JoYP.0whLkcJsIIF8S7vCizAj9yMHoMDJx0UHk0Oa3WFoE_Po281_CT W4adnu8CPI1f8FgflMy4seqkqKqJCixO4S4FTBV5R.d33KXPKl87EU9dCiOhn4T2G5lZi6WvoQh9 regT7rHhoIeayoCEmgHXH4IW9_rzkqQt2dO.SXdTtLxyvIaPl0RPVA5JCgNcCjpD426mCMSen3Et J2aNJy2lBdgQ23ASYygs674VYlXUE0oDu7PlVVLAcbL1oX0LW1Ui3n5WVbycCKn3O9aclwZalKm2 HQFchQhO5Fel5ChtViOX7v43SJo_Rq8QNwrTJWqJslDFHdEbYf2ULE2xab2lZNOAIYC78 Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.bf2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 20:15:00 +0000 Received: from 172.58.139.108 (EHLO [IPv6:2607:fb90:a2ed:6039:c053:7696:efa5:27b4]) ([172.58.139.108]) by smtp432.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID cb5e3199700a26026257ee28af1e09a6 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 20:14:55 +0000 (UTC) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-FE08A951-C43C-455B-9ACB-F8BB797B1127 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 15:14:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: wiring / incident report Message-Id: References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15G77) --Apple-Mail-FE08A951-C43C-455B-9ACB-F8BB797B1127 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Multiple replies of the same sentiment!!! Rich Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 2, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Christopher Barber CBarber@TexasAttorney.net <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >=20 > Wow. So glad you are ok. Sounds like you did a great job. Well done Tracy.= =20 >=20 > Chris Barber > Houston >=20 > Sent from my iPhone >=20 > On Sep 2, 2018, at 11:15 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: >=20 >> Good comments Bobby. RFI (radio frequency interference) is an age old p= roblem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. =20 >>=20 >> The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables, a= ntennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor from t= he map sensor output to ground. I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO so d= on=E2=80=99t have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s= probably in the archives here somewhere. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. Here are the= gory details.=20 >> I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago. Just as I was approaching= rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder forced m= e off the left side of the runway. Did I mention it was a STRONG gust? The= ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as the sa= fer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff.=20 >>=20 >> That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. The= re was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear hit th= is obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid succession. T= he left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all the attach points t= o break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel. As it did, the sh= arp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing puncturing the skin= 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit of good fortune that d= ay =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain the tank very quickly had i= t been a couple of inches further forward. BTW, This was the left side tank= that always feeds the engine on my setup. >>=20 >> I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiw= ay and running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inch= es tall. It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the sid= e of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an accordion= . Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward attach point of t= he fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank while folding up= causing fuel to start pouring out. =20 >>=20 >> Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical en= ergy of the impact launched me into the air. Time to fly the airplane. Not= enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but controll= able so I turn downwind for a close in pattern. It was at this point I noti= ced the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel line enters the f= uselage. The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing out or fire and= think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray stops before I get se= rious about that. The plane is behaving oddly, the main thing being the air= speed is way lower than it should be. I began the takeoff with no flaps but= then I notice that they are now at full flaps, the throttle quadrant and fl= ap control switch are mounted just above the left gear so the switch must ha= ve been forced on during the impact. The linkage to the switch is intact so= I take off all the flaps and the airspeed starts coming up. =20 >>=20 >> I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear l= eg and wheel are still attached. I radio Unicom requesting a visual check o= f my gear but no one is on. I worry momentarily about there being enough fu= el left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, etc b= ut make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other than cont= rolling the plane at the moment. That=E2=80=99s the best advice I can give a= nyone in a situation like this.=20 >>=20 >> The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the de= cision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. Not sure i= t was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement. Did a full f= lap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber instead alu= minum touching down was amazing. The gear was far too distorted to maintain= normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runway and right s= ide up.=20 >>=20 >> There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get t= he plane back in the hangar. They took a look at it and said something lik= e =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. They had a hard tim= e believing it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that.= #MeToo! =F0=9F=98=B1 >>=20 >> Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing inciden= t that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8. I checked to see wh= at he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try repairing s= o ended up replacing the entire fuselage. I=E2=80=99m going to repair inste= ad. Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable. I=E2=80= =99ve almost completed the removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the p= arts and put back together when I return next spring. >>=20 >> Tracy Crook >>=20 >> On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net wrote: >>=20 >>> Andrew,=20 >>>=20 >>> I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to s= tumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fuel le= vel readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the e= ngine on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bullet= in that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coa= x away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different antenna locations mo= re to the rear of the aircraft.=20 >>>=20 >>> Bobby >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>> On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing= , with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B ECU= rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring as I= had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cable by= connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works better= but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as Tracy had= years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the circuit board= , when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the injectors are going f= ull open and flooding engine again. seems to only happen in flight which has= got me buggered as the engine cannot know its flying.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it= could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and component= s losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery. >>>>=20 >>>> Andrew >>>>=20 >>>>> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au= wrote: >>>>> Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip?=20 >>>>> Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker rat= ing from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & brea= ker rating? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have al= ways used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, that way= if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused it. btw= . only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a screwd= iver where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either to say it w= ont happen in the air. >>>>> Andrew >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>> I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it. B= ut I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane. Just a personal h= ang up. Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, ev= en on non flight critical stuff. =20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Tracy Crook >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 --Apple-Mail-FE08A951-C43C-455B-9ACB-F8BB797B1127 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Multiple replies of the same sentiment!!!
Rich

Sent from my iP= hone

On Sep 2, 2018, at 12:42 PM, Christopher Barber CBarber@TexasAttorney.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> w= rote:

Wow. So glad you are ok. Sounds like you did a great job. Well done Tracy.&n= bsp;

Chris Barber
Houston

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 2, 2018, at 11:15 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Good comments Bobby.   RFI (radio frequency interference) is an ag= e old problem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. &= nbsp; 

The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables,= antennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor from= the map sensor output to ground.  I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in C= O so don=E2=80=99t have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably in the archives here somewhere.
=

I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO.   Here a= re the gory details. 
 I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago.  Just as I was= approaching rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full ru= dder forced me off the left side of the runway.  Did I mention it was a= STRONG gust?  The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as the safer option since I was within= a second or two from liftoff. 

That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. &n= bsp;There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear= hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid success= ion.  The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all the attach points to break away and it began to= rotate underneath the wheel.  As it did, the sharp point at the rear i= mpacted the underside of the wing puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing= tank. (This was the single bit of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain the ta= nk very quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward.  BTW, T= his was the left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup.

I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the tax= iway and running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 in= ches tall.  It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so t= he side of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an accordion.  Since this is the area of th= e fuselage where the forward attach point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the= inboard rib of the fuel tank while folding up causing fuel to start pouring= out.  

Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical e= nergy of the impact launched me into the air.  Time to fly the airplane= .  Not enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' b= ut controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern.  It was at this point I noticed the fuel spraying i= nto the cockpit down where the fuel line enters the fuselage.  The fume= s are so strong that I worry about passing out or fire and think about jetti= soning the canopy but the fuel spray stops before I get serious about that.  The plane is behaving oddly, the mai= n thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be.  I began the= takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, th= e throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the left gear so the switch must have been forced on= during the impact.  The linkage to the switch is intact so I take off a= ll the flaps and the airspeed starts coming up.  

I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear= leg and wheel are still attached.  I radio Unicom requesting a visual c= heck of my gear but no one is on.  I worry momentarily about there bein= g enough fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, etc but make the conscious effort t= o stop worrying about anything other than controlling the plane at the momen= t.  That=E2=80=99s the best advice I can give anyone in a situation lik= e this. 

The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the d= ecision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway.   Not= sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement.  = Did a full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber instead aluminum touching down was amazing= .  The gear was far too distorted to maintain normal control but I came= to a stop off the left side of runway and right side up. 

There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to ge= t the plane back in the hangar.   They took a look at it and said somet= hing like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D.    T= hey had a hard time believing it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that.  #MeToo!  =F0=9F=98=B1

Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing incid= ent that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8.  I checked to= see what he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try repa= iring so ended up replacing the entire fuselage.  I=E2=80=99m going to repair instead.  Won=E2=80=99t be= easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable. I=E2=80=99ve almost complete= d the removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back to= gether when I return next spring.

Tracy Crook

On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <fl= yrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Andrew, 

I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to= stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fuel l= evel readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine on the ground but not noticeable in= flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin that helps with this problem. Using do= uble shielded coax, keeping the coax away from EC wiring should help. Sam te= sted different antenna locations more to the rear of the aircraft. 

Bobby



Sent from my iPad

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing= , with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B= ECU rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring= as I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cable by connecting the shield to gr= ound at both ends by mistake. Radio works better but now an old problem has r= eturned that I thought I had fixed as Tracy had years ago, given instruction= s on installing some part to the circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the in= jectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only happen i= n flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its flying.

Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it= could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and component= s losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery.

Andrew

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin <= a href=3D"mailto:andrew@martinag.com.au"> andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip?
Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker rati= ng from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & b= reaker rating?

Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have alw= ays used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, that w= ay if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused it. b= tw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but= then I haven't flown much either to say it wont happen in the air.
Andrew


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may= need it.  But I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane.&n= bsp; Just a personal hang up.  Having a manually resettable breaker has= saved me lots of times, even on non flight critical stuff.  

Tracy Crook


= --Apple-Mail-FE08A951-C43C-455B-9ACB-F8BB797B1127--