X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=C7Kr8kH+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=8jCiCiLsDoBSUDcbh/9+rg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=kj1derGAFDYA:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=j4le78bewvtP9T7ksmcA:9 a=NWCdHHd-a0gIfS0N:21 a=XH_3r-fBPDlXOAw-:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=YR7cTNfL-F3ZpvDEnQkA:9 a=bX9bbz4H2Jy0VwcQ:21 a=Ns9ePdv2rnOHritF:21 a=MCUZSKAag7m9KcqN:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 From: "alex alex.molteno@gmail.com" Received: from mail-wm0-f42.google.com ([74.125.82.42] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11594735 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 14:14:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=74.125.82.42; envelope-from=alex.molteno@gmail.com Received: by mail-wm0-f42.google.com with SMTP id f21-v6so9417848wmc.5 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 11:14:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=M6RWRvcI99nqM7UXzRTYiek9a4gy7+Q84hbiNErrFRk=; b=lXJQEdx8TnZxV1YWiCmkh5P6D+hDrQVp340nt8dTgVj8f0O0KCLGw6D0hsF7y1vHqd IS6puzh7Rc4wz3sqDSNqd4hjeI5fM7beTo4Q6/Ju3Bk4Qqw4OFUNNEFRLSXQByw7cJm6 Fly6tQQIJCgRvB/5U/p0RyYtuPGpEAdPFTK/d+PZdIHSLCA8wCy06X537zJNUf6UlsFg VaKwOm98Y1E8JFDm8ec9vffUINmosROx2sCk2VvRlj4uIm9tEC9RX35F/W/FzpASG3Nb XfF7Y+QzuTvuI/RzLCK4simL2QhjzPwSEHOZxcukwDchBlaepLhVOnUjvhFXMRNdGKQf EJ2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=M6RWRvcI99nqM7UXzRTYiek9a4gy7+Q84hbiNErrFRk=; b=iypPqPzSESOd2dLeiIEKxiX1/8+htNiMD920+sQBd+fQcJXMROcMqLrh3XVbtA8K0o 2sW2z3HDCN1xrvQGvLPCJVIFbxYykz6SbXQStU45uDbNsSx9lYqMw1c+ohVBrQlL1N1P ebd/idQInSsUgRcJqSvaV7dj3/02tP3hrqo2oc972JEo+DLdMx+5lPnAPRiH+WC9Z1Ls Ff7rWVYpIGWFUTvP/bukilFJEN2L71XDvAthQHnh9ZZ9ct+jootavDRkGW8IxGj0iWA+ I2twHUEL+ZpAU+zHM2q90OtiIqfEgzaG4kG/lfac2oIEackfzoZp8Wao/NCQsj6oKlp0 +oiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51Bm2IlBxTJXi9qUFoTu6L5IK3SvYU78kixsJGtNS55RfzCyEb4Q r8BW0hz+MBoT0nN1OtOvj1sE01t5sN5Bet7eoejAXiCp X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYHJpIn2KnKaUqs1C90S801nK/IOMNBeK9lmL5jx40rZThp9XIRBopl5qolYfiWvCq/Ffw43zQdq28xuJq2GzE= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:114:: with SMTP id 20-v6mr3022127wmb.4.1535912050007; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 11:14:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 14:13:58 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: wiring / incident report To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000025a6350574e7648d" --00000000000025a6350574e7648d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good job keeping it under control Tracy, and hope she takes to the skies again soon, Alex On Sun, Sep 2, 2018, 12:16 Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Good comments Bobby. RFI (radio frequency interference) is an age old > problem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. > > The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables, > antennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor fr= om > the map sensor output to ground. I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO = so don=E2=80=99t > have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably = in the > archives here somewhere. > > I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. Here are the= gory > details. > I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago. Just as I was approaching > rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder force= d > me off the left side of the runway. Did I mention it was a STRONG gust? > The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as > the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff. > > That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. > There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear > hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid > succession. The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all th= e > attach points to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel. > As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing > puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit > of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain t= he tank very > quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward. BTW, This was th= e > left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup. > > I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiw= ay and > running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches > tall. It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the sid= e > of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an > accordion. Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward atta= ch > point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank whi= le > folding up causing fuel to start pouring out. > > Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical > energy of the impact launched me into the air. Time to fly the airplane. > Not enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but > controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern. It was at this > point I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel li= ne > enters the fuselage. The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing > out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray sto= ps > before I get serious about that. The plane is behaving oddly, the main > thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be. I began the > takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, > the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the > left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact. The > linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the > airspeed starts coming up. > > I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear > leg and wheel are still attached. I radio Unicom requesting a visual che= ck > of my gear but no one is on. I worry momentarily about there being enoug= h > fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, > etc but make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other > than controlling the plane at the moment. That=E2=80=99s the best advice= I can > give anyone in a situation like this. > > The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the > decision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. Not > sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement. Did= a > full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber > instead aluminum touching down was amazing. The gear was far too distort= ed > to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runw= ay > and right side up. > > There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get > the plane back in the hangar. They took a look at it and said something > like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. They had a ha= rd time believing > it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. #MeToo! > =F0=9F=98=B1 > > Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing inciden= t > that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8. I checked to see > what he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try > repairing so ended up replacing the entire fuselage. I=E2=80=99m going t= o repair > instead. Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable.= I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the > removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back toget= her when I > return next spring. > > Tracy Crook > > On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Andrew, > > I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to > stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fue= l level > readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not > sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine > on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin > that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coa= x > away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different antenna locations > more to the rear of the aircraft. > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, > with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B EC= U > rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring a= s > I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cabl= e > by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works > better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as > Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the > circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the > injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only > happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its > flying. > > Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it > could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and > components losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery. > > Andrew > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip? >> Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker ratin= g >> from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & brea= ker >> rating? >> >> Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have >> always used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, th= at >> way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused = it. >> btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a >> screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either t= o >> say it wont happen in the air. >> Andrew >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it. Bu= t >>> I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane. Just a personal= hang up. >>> Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even o= n >>> non flight critical stuff. >>> >>> Tracy Crook >>> >> >> > --00000000000025a6350574e7648d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Good job keeping it under control Tracy, and hope she tak= es to the skies again soon,

Al= ex

On Sun, Sep 2= , 2018, 12:16 Tracy Crook rwstracy@gm= ail.com <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:
Good comments Bobby. =C2=A0 RFI (radio frequency interference= ) is an age old problem with electronics when working with nearby radio tra= nsmitters. =C2=A0=C2=A0

The EC2/3 fix that has worked in= all the cases where relocating cables, antennas etc. was not successful ha= s been to install a .1 uf capacitor from the map sensor output to ground.= =C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO so don=E2=80=99t have all my = files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably in the archive= s here somewhere.

I=E2=80=99m still repairing my R= V-8 that stays here in CO. =C2=A0 Here are the gory details.=C2=A0
=C2=A0I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago.=C2=A0 Just as I was a= pproaching rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rud= der forced me off the left side of the runway.=C2=A0 Did I mention it was a= STRONG gust?=C2=A0 The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to contin= ue the takeoff as the safer option since I was within a second or two from = liftoff.=C2=A0

That plan went fine until I hit the= edge of an intersecting taxiway.=C2=A0 There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop = off at the edge and when my left gear hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the foll= owing events happened in rapid succession.=C2=A0 The left wheel pant impact= ing the taxiway edge caused all the attach points to break away and it bega= n to rotate underneath the wheel.=C2=A0 As it did, the sharp point at the r= ear impacted the underside of the wing puncturing the skin 1 inch behind th= e wing tank. (This was the single bit of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F= ) The hole was big enough to drain the tank very quickly had it been a coup= le of inches further forward.=C2=A0 BTW, This was the left side tank that a= lways feeds the engine on my setup.

I=E2=80=99m gu= essing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiway and running o= ver the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches tall.=C2=A0 = It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the side of the = fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an accordion.=C2=A0 = Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward attach point of th= e fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank while folding up= causing fuel to start pouring out. =C2=A0

Since a= t this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical energy of t= he impact launched me into the air.=C2=A0 Time to fly the airplane.=C2=A0 N= ot enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' b= ut controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern.=C2=A0 It was at = this point I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel= line enters the fuselage.=C2=A0 The fumes are so strong that I worry about= passing out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel sp= ray stops before I get serious about that.=C2=A0 The plane is behaving oddl= y, the main thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be.=C2=A0 = I began the takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at fu= ll flaps, the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just ab= ove the left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact.= =C2=A0 The linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and = the airspeed starts coming up. =C2=A0

I know I mus= t have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear leg and wheel a= re still attached.=C2=A0 I radio Unicom requesting a visual check of my gea= r but no one is on.=C2=A0 I worry momentarily about there being enough fuel= left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, etc b= ut make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other than con= trolling the plane at the moment.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s the best advice I ca= n give anyone in a situation like this.=C2=A0

The = rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the = decision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. =C2=A0 N= ot sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement.=C2= =A0 Did a full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling r= ubber instead aluminum touching down was amazing.=C2=A0 The gear was far to= o distorted to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left si= de of runway and right side up.=C2=A0

There were t= he usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get the plane back= in the hangar. =C2=A0 They took a look at it and said something like =E2= =80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0 =C2=A0They had a ha= rd time believing it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern lik= e that. =C2=A0#MeToo! =C2=A0=F0=9F=98=B1

Matt Dral= le who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing incident that resu= lted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8.=C2=A0 I checked to see what he= decided about repairing and he determined he would not try repairing so en= ded up replacing the entire fuselage.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m going to repair ins= tead.=C2=A0 Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable.= I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll o= rder the parts and put back together when I return next spring.
<= br>
Tracy Crook

On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobb= y J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:

Andrew,=C2=A0
<= br>
I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the= engine to stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capaci= tance fuel level readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumb= le but I=E2=80=99m not sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in th= e sound of the engine on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has= a service bulletin that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coa= x, keeping the coax away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different a= ntenna locations more to the rear of the aircraft.=C2=A0

Bobby



Sent from my iPad

On S= ep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Update: ended up splitting coil po= wer into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, with independent feeds/fuses/switche= s, now can check ignition on A & B ECU rather than just B as per EC2 wi= ring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring as I had inadvertently created a gr= ound loop on my radio to efis serial cable by connecting the shield to grou= nd at both ends by mistake. Radio works better but now an old problem has r= eturned that I thought I had fixed as Tracy had years ago, given instructio= ns on installing some part to the circuit board, when I transmit on radio t= he engine misses, think the injectors are going full open and flooding engi= ne again. seems to only happen in flight which has got me buggered as the e= ngine cannot know its flying.

Going to try re= wiring components back to the battery. as now I think it could be something= to do with the battery being moved for CoG and components losing their ind= ependent feeds & ground back to the battery.

Andrew

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Mar= tin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary= @lancaironline.net> wrote:
=
Interested to know what usually causes the bre= aker to trip?
Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently= higher than breaker rating from components that does not really justify in= creasing wire size & breaker rating?

Up until = this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have always used fuse= s & wire size much higher than component requirement, that way if a fus= e blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused it. btw. only t= ime a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a screwdiver wh= ere it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either to say it= wont happen in the air.
Andrew


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rw= stracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline= .net> wrote:
I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it.=C2= =A0 But I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane.=C2=A0 Just a= personal hang up.=C2=A0 Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me = lots of times, even on non flight critical stuff. =C2=A0

Tracy Crook


= --00000000000025a6350574e7648d--