X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=C7Kr8kH+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=heuW58uY1yy9w+pfVyFuFQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=vsTOZgKZtpcsJgeIDgkA:9 a=gm2_Y3RM_-ivdYC_:21 a=HVNsKRn3B3Ag0a3-:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=YR7cTNfL-F3ZpvDEnQkA:9 a=VUGQSoyQrCYRI0jf:21 a=ZEBFe2XhXcvuerJL:21 a=GUFI8fyoH-LiGnTY:21 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f51.google.com ([209.85.208.51] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11594445 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 13:09:13 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.51; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f51.google.com with SMTP id u1-v6so12238343eds.1 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:09:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=wVaKAWF9AVmtjYrJI/tfqiSJQ5piGKvaoALw8gAtz/8=; b=XJ3wfVR7OCeDLcrzAO8i2FPDVUNHSdGVIWXrX53bYKVjanPK8wUGi4s7SJufle24Tq S/MpOZiaqgamtB6cFioD0K+s0m3zwEslbe3ztMMv8WQr9lZeOMC075EGfvdjOFb+wio5 mrCKZ16BYoPi5NoO6V8okRNxNFEmQ4TKMecjBzQYeq1TSRC6bIkIVvM2mUrqIE+C8Oai EMP9EF3lr4eyL/VEqLihJVGkUnRq1J/3MlQI0cNmKwAuRaRT9fty2gbWDm1IeBr4bsSG CdaFd0zN9njBUoQSvUskG46FpOMYecHm2rTsuqYPrLTHloEqsP3DyFyz1+Tr7szQzoCh pF9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=wVaKAWF9AVmtjYrJI/tfqiSJQ5piGKvaoALw8gAtz/8=; b=L720ilcJCgIZTkKTY6TRxDG+30lHuNT7FvmFUc0w9Ff2q+qu4aCzs7eWoWuPgvUvAN bTf3B420mQZvOA6czxJvzhf+79h4FNa7GZboUbpKFGII5mID9u3sRXtb25el8Yy+eipJ 9F/FZ2SzfiHtysJeBJdu/czaMc9sKY5lrKhhB4yD4AxX97Nh2s3fyGKeAvH9APUVnGAC duxqJThLE9lYFf7qCFmwwsOlngBtFm8MrVpF07PVyU1RD+AF6ScxEhxHzYRiHqfzQJ7B Kk853tXp7tIZ/sO+LHqUD0Jaid7Eh3Btt3orUWHN4Y12EhKpGe2FU0R6n5Sup1W/nbSi zO7A== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51BvqNF5Apsz++GQHBxAHPX77QDopgmUUoUlfi6rpbG21HuCj7Ld y81tl8MTT/XmONUJw5E7vyOAFVnM/DUwTOl3DDIw X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbsFOFaFGNCq8zt43OE+7bwgJReh+f+BxNdDBRChmIOGfzEQpz+2+Ccoa5KQcI2cCjLx/kO/b61DqT+9o6IilY= X-Received: by 2002:a50:b6e3:: with SMTP id f32-v6mr28194847ede.147.1535908135329; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:08:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 10:08:42 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: incident report To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d064d00574e67af9" --000000000000d064d00574e67af9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wow Tracy; Good job getting it around and back down again. Pretty unfortunate anytime you bend up an airplane but it sounds like you've got a plan to get it back up soon. Do you have shop facilities and tools available in CO? Sounds like the Otter might be getting some flight time again? Todd > > I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. Here are the= gory > details. > I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago. Just as I was approaching > rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder force= d > me off the left side of the runway. Did I mention it was a STRONG gust? > The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as > the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff. > > That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. > There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear > hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid > succession. The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all th= e > attach points to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel. > As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing > puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit > of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain t= he tank very > quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward. BTW, This was th= e > left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup. > > I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiw= ay and > running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches > tall. It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the sid= e > of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an > accordion. Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward atta= ch > point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank whi= le > folding up causing fuel to start pouring out. > > Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical > energy of the impact launched me into the air. Time to fly the airplane. > Not enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but > controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern. It was at this > point I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel li= ne > enters the fuselage. The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing > out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray sto= ps > before I get serious about that. The plane is behaving oddly, the main > thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be. I began the > takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, > the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the > left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact. The > linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the > airspeed starts coming up. > > I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear > leg and wheel are still attached. I radio Unicom requesting a visual che= ck > of my gear but no one is on. I worry momentarily about there being enoug= h > fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, > etc but make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other > than controlling the plane at the moment. That=E2=80=99s the best advice= I can > give anyone in a situation like this. > > The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the > decision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. Not > sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement. Did= a > full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber > instead aluminum touching down was amazing. The gear was far too distort= ed > to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runw= ay > and right side up. > > There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get > the plane back in the hangar. They took a look at it and said something > like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. They had a ha= rd time believing > it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. #MeToo! > =F0=9F=98=B1 > > Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing inciden= t > that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8. I checked to see > what he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try > repairing so ended up replacing the entire fuselage. I=E2=80=99m going t= o repair > instead. Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable.= I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the > removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back toget= her when I > return next spring. > > Tracy Crook > > On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Andrew, > > I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to > stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fue= l level > readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not > sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine > on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin > that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coa= x > away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different antenna locations > more to the rear of the aircraft. > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, > with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B EC= U > rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring a= s > I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cabl= e > by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works > better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as > Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the > circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the > injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only > happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its > flying. > > Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it > could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and > components losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery. > > Andrew > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip? >> Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker ratin= g >> from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & brea= ker >> rating? >> >> Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have >> always used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, th= at >> way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused = it. >> btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a >> screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either t= o >> say it wont happen in the air. >> Andrew >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it. Bu= t >>> I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane. Just a personal= hang up. >>> Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even o= n >>> non flight critical stuff. >>> >>> Tracy Crook >>> >> >> > --000000000000d064d00574e67af9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Wow Tracy;=C2=A0
=C2=A0 Good job getting it around and back down again. Pretty unfo= rtunate anytime you bend up an airplane but it sounds like you've got a= plan to get it back up soon.
Do you have shop facili= ties and tools available in CO?
=C2=A0 Sounds like th= e Otter might be getting some flight time again?

=
Todd

I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays h= ere in CO. =C2=A0 Here are the gory details.=C2=A0
=C2=A0I had an= incident on takeoff a few weeks ago.=C2=A0 Just as I was approaching rotat= ion speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder forced me of= f the left side of the runway.=C2=A0 Did I mention it was a STRONG gust?=C2= =A0 The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff a= s the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff.=C2=A0

That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an inte= rsecting taxiway.=C2=A0 There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge = and when my left gear hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events hap= pened in rapid succession.=C2=A0 The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway = edge caused all the attach points to break away and it began to rotate unde= rneath the wheel.=C2=A0 As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the= underside of the wing puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (Th= is was the single bit of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was b= ig enough to drain the tank very quickly had it been a couple of inches fur= ther forward.=C2=A0 BTW, This was the left side tank that always feeds the = engine on my setup.

I=E2=80=99m guessing the combi= ned effect of hitting the edge of the taxiway and running over the wheel-pa= nt was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches tall.=C2=A0 It was too much = vertical load for the structure to bear so the side of the fuselage above t= he gear leg buckled up and folded like an accordion.=C2=A0 Since this is th= e area of the fuselage where the forward attach point of the fuel tank is, = it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank while folding up causing fuel to= start pouring out. =C2=A0

Since at this point I w= as right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical energy of the impact launch= ed me into the air.=C2=A0 Time to fly the airplane.=C2=A0 Not enough room t= o land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but controllable = so I turn downwind for a close in pattern.=C2=A0 It was at this point I not= iced the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel line enters the= fuselage.=C2=A0 The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing out or = fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray stops before= I get serious about that.=C2=A0 The plane is behaving oddly, the main thin= g being the airspeed is way lower than it should be.=C2=A0 I began the take= off with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, the th= rottle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the left gea= r so the switch must have been forced on during the impact.=C2=A0 The linka= ge to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the airspeed sta= rts coming up. =C2=A0

I know I must have a damaged= gear but not how badly or even if the gear leg and wheel are still attache= d.=C2=A0 I radio Unicom requesting a visual check of my gear but no one is = on.=C2=A0 I worry momentarily about there being enough fuel left in the tan= k to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, etc but make the cons= cious effort to stop worrying about anything other than controlling the pla= ne at the moment.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s the best advice I can give anyone in= a situation like this.=C2=A0

The rest of the patt= ern went 'normally', the only difference being the decision on whet= her to land on or to the side of the paved runway. =C2=A0 Not sure it was t= he right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement.=C2=A0 Did a full fl= ap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber instead alu= minum touching down was amazing.=C2=A0 The gear was far too distorted to ma= intain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runway and = right side up.=C2=A0

There were the usual airport = bums who gave me all the help needed to get the plane back in the hangar. = =C2=A0 They took a look at it and said something like =E2=80=9CThat is some= bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0 =C2=A0They had a hard time believing = it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. =C2=A0#MeT= oo! =C2=A0=F0=9F=98=B1

Matt Dralle who runs one of= the RV forum sites did have a landing incident that resulted in exactly th= e same damage on his RV-8.=C2=A0 I checked to see what he decided about rep= airing and he determined he would not try repairing so ended up replacing t= he entire fuselage.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m going to repair instead.=C2=A0 Won=E2= =80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable. I=E2=80=99ve almo= st completed the removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and= put back together when I return next spring.

Trac= y Crook

On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:

= Andrew,=C2=A0

I originally had an SL-30 and keying the m= ike would cause the engine to stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would c= ause erratic capacitance fuel level readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam = H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80=99m not sure what radio. My 430w causes a= small change in the sound of the engine on the ground but not noticeable i= n flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin that helps with this problem. Using = double shielded coax, keeping the coax away from EC wiring should help. Sam= tested different antenna locations more to the rear of the aircraft.=C2=A0=

Bobby



Sent from my iPad<= /div>

On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net> wrote:

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits,= leading/trailing, with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ign= ition on A & B ECU rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned u= p a bit more wiring as I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radi= o to efis serial cable by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by m= istake. Radio works better but now an old problem has returned that I thoug= ht I had fixed as Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing som= e part to the circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, th= ink the injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to o= nly happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know it= s flying.

Going to try rewiring components ba= ck to the battery. as now I think it could be something to do with the batt= ery being moved for CoG and components losing their independent feeds &= ground back to the battery.

Andrew

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Mar= tin andrew@mart= inag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrot= e:
Interested = to know what usually causes the breaker to trip?
Is it commo= n to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker rating from compone= nts that does not really justify increasing wire size & breaker rating?=

Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worke= d for me, But have always used fuses & wire size much higher than compo= nent requirement, that way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault so= mewhere that caused it. btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground wh= en some idiot stuck a screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I have= n't flown much either to say it wont happen in the air.
Andre= w


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I use Corrosion X on any electrica= l connection I think may need it.=C2=A0 But I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on an= ything in the airplane.=C2=A0 Just a personal hang up.=C2=A0 Having a manua= lly resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even on non flight criti= cal stuff. =C2=A0

Tracy Crook


= --000000000000d064d00574e67af9--