X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=C7Kr8kH+ c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=uB6qr+KF+w99YtxYp3i8Zg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=JZygid9Izu4A:10 a=JBFolyDoGHsA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=j4le78bewvtP9T7ksmcA:9 a=t4ZgwOO16UQHS_g2:21 a=6zSnN3q3VRZwDwDU:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=YR7cTNfL-F3ZpvDEnQkA:9 a=qeNmlZGnLt5awLLt:21 a=pkjVej64bc8qVA6w:21 a=Zvj2XcEVd-mkGn8U:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 From: "Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com" Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com ([209.85.218.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.7) with ESMTPS id 11594432 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 13:05:45 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.218.48; envelope-from=keltro@gmail.com Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id r69-v6so29872955oie.3 for ; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:05:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TP4L/2BtI3Mrgi0l+4XW1hS4GEa9Tqaif+ErTeUd9OQ=; b=XkrWCYo7ZgMoQAxuZsvFSXxF110AouHBoKgKAU08LHy6PpBYImUJg0EyUXISuUm/Br ufqjtwW/pKHvWsvQJA+Aj16X4WpAvioDtdU4dQlgKrvJJ5msj0qlSdq2WPm0+oOUIfEC eQiWEse26BBMMw9xxYOlgNF4Oggg/FGS1d70t+zSI0GAOBQb+A/ouLaNr7YYAKCWYqJb dEsH811iGRRVkNIyzjJhiRQcxlHsgUXGTionmoqhXD/L2tAbmFa1h2gmebu0UFVxDcEw Jjjo1tYK9dhaXA3W2gUfm8MT5el8Wv4SdDTsv7bg+5/TB7pCov7SFrztygzrDJu8dSUf btHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TP4L/2BtI3Mrgi0l+4XW1hS4GEa9Tqaif+ErTeUd9OQ=; b=htSuNuc00Kp/O+6yeWOTq63/r3R6ChQSHB4KPc4IL50fhJN4UOqPvPONqH1qBhr6tK xjsDTg5YKX4nY9kRbEwcHXp1TuTSzIeZJvWh8LaYe6GlnEIwKVjfBz6WQi9OK+PDzcE+ 8KjYcgSd1zoyvaMlvwY6vzkGG6YUIlRId1TRWmZIOXOObwah7lRW10LhPUxVU5kNkR7O hPn80/LUi+M//H6oliXcmF5yx3MZJuHx9z7bvxaNDMmWNBjxtxd1vfI6Dw23YZ9xLKLq AtRegc+gGMdi5SoI3e9YJvzEBahsH86dORO64kUCEprgLRmDUqjclCACDlyig5bg5NOP cn2w== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51CgLzEdjbpID9is1hqXp8fxE4/pQQtEEuJtlUHSWhAUIdlhOYvZ HhX2SHEdNsnG97oHI8tiM7DEmrk9OXuAUeN5a63Jkg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbCWd47V53jnsRbxSv/KRHWAMhY908HFFPDISmPKqJw92oeXHq2p6tvRjlIy7jEQZd+WGFqvMbg3QXCEVqTKHQ= X-Received: by 2002:aca:18d:: with SMTP id 135-v6mr15002743oib.2.1535907927230; Sun, 02 Sep 2018 10:05:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a9d:1d06:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Sep 2018 10:05:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2018 12:05:26 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: wiring / incident report To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000690be10574e66e97" --000000000000690be10574e66e97 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tracy, You certainly did the best you could under the circumstances !!............. * You Flew the Airplane!!* Best, Kelly Troyer On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Good comments Bobby. RFI (radio frequency interference) is an age old > problem with electronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. > > The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating cables, > antennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capacitor fr= om > the map sensor output to ground. I=E2=80=99m at my off grid shack in CO = so don=E2=80=99t > have all my files with the details of that fix but it=E2=80=99s probably = in the > archives here somewhere. > > I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. Here are the= gory > details. > I had an incident on takeoff a few weeks ago. Just as I was approaching > rotation speed a strong crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder force= d > me off the left side of the runway. Did I mention it was a STRONG gust? > The ground was reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as > the safer option since I was within a second or two from liftoff. > > That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway. > There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left gear > hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid > succession. The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all th= e > attach points to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel. > As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the wing > puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single bit > of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drain t= he tank very > quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward. BTW, This was th= e > left side tank that always feeds the engine on my setup. > > I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hitting the edge of the taxiw= ay and > running over the wheel-pant was like hitting an obstacle about 8 inches > tall. It was too much vertical load for the structure to bear so the sid= e > of the fuselage above the gear leg buckled up and folded like an > accordion. Since this is the area of the fuselage where the forward atta= ch > point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the inboard rib of the fuel tank whi= le > folding up causing fuel to start pouring out. > > Since at this point I was right at minimum liftoff speed, the vertical > energy of the impact launched me into the air. Time to fly the airplane. > Not enough room to land straight ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but > controllable so I turn downwind for a close in pattern. It was at this > point I noticed the fuel spraying into the cockpit down where the fuel li= ne > enters the fuselage. The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing > out or fire and think about jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray sto= ps > before I get serious about that. The plane is behaving oddly, the main > thing being the airspeed is way lower than it should be. I began the > takeoff with no flaps but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, > the throttle quadrant and flap control switch are mounted just above the > left gear so the switch must have been forced on during the impact. The > linkage to the switch is intact so I take off all the flaps and the > airspeed starts coming up. > > I know I must have a damaged gear but not how badly or even if the gear > leg and wheel are still attached. I radio Unicom requesting a visual che= ck > of my gear but no one is on. I worry momentarily about there being enoug= h > fuel left in the tank to complete the pattern, state of the landing gear, > etc but make the conscious effort to stop worrying about anything other > than controlling the plane at the moment. That=E2=80=99s the best advice= I can > give anyone in a situation like this. > > The rest of the pattern went 'normally', the only difference being the > decision on whether to land on or to the side of the paved runway. Not > sure it was the right choice in retrospect but I chose the pavement. Did= a > full flap soft field landing approach and the relief of feeling rubber > instead aluminum touching down was amazing. The gear was far too distort= ed > to maintain normal control but I came to a stop off the left side of runw= ay > and right side up. > > There were the usual airport bums who gave me all the help needed to get > the plane back in the hangar. They took a look at it and said something > like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing damage!=E2=80=9D. They had a ha= rd time believing > it happened on takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. #MeToo! > =F0=9F=98=B1 > > Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum sites did have a landing inciden= t > that resulted in exactly the same damage on his RV-8. I checked to see > what he decided about repairing and he determined he would not try > repairing so ended up replacing the entire fuselage. I=E2=80=99m going t= o repair > instead. Won=E2=80=99t be easy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable.= I=E2=80=99ve almost completed the > removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back toget= her when I > return next spring. > > Tracy Crook > > On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Andrew, > > I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cause the engine to > stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic capacitance fue= l level > readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine stumble but I=E2=80= =99m not > sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change in the sound of the engine > on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-30 has a service bulletin > that helps with this problem. Using double shielded coax, keeping the coa= x > away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested different antenna locations > more to the rear of the aircraft. > > Bobby > > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/trailing, > with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A & B EC= U > rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more wiring a= s > I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis serial cabl= e > by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radio works > better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fixed as > Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to the > circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the > injectors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only > happen in flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its > flying. > > Going to try rewiring components back to the battery. as now I think it > could be something to do with the battery being moved for CoG and > components losing their independent feeds & ground back to the battery. > > Andrew > > On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Interested to know what usually causes the breaker to trip? >> Is it common to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker ratin= g >> from components that does not really justify increasing wire size & brea= ker >> rating? >> >> Up until this corrosion incident fuses have worked for me, But have >> always used fuses & wire size much higher than component requirement, th= at >> way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault somewhere that caused = it. >> btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground when some idiot stuck a >> screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I haven't flown much either t= o >> say it wont happen in the air. >> Andrew >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> I use Corrosion X on any electrical connection I think may need it. Bu= t >>> I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on anything in the airplane. Just a personal= hang up. >>> Having a manually resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even o= n >>> non flight critical stuff. >>> >>> Tracy Crook >>> >> >> > --=20 Kelly Troyer Dyke Delta_"Eventually" 13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2 --000000000000690be10574e66e97 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Tracy,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0You certainly did the bes= t you could under the circumstances !!.............

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 You Flew the Airplane!!
=C2=A0 Best,
=C2=A0 Kelly Troyer
<= /div>

On Sun, Sep = 2, 2018 at 11:15 AM, Tracy Crook rwst= racy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> w= rote:
Good comments Bob= by. =C2=A0 RFI (radio frequency interference) is an age old problem with el= ectronics when working with nearby radio transmitters. =C2=A0=C2=A0
The EC2/3 fix that has worked in all the cases where relocating= cables, antennas etc. was not successful has been to install a .1 uf capac= itor from the map sensor output to ground.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m at my off grid= shack in CO so don=E2=80=99t have all my files with the details of that fi= x but it=E2=80=99s probably in the archives here somewhere.

<= /div>
I=E2=80=99m still repairing my RV-8 that stays here in CO. =C2=A0= Here are the gory details.=C2=A0
=C2=A0I had an incident on take= off a few weeks ago.=C2=A0 Just as I was approaching rotation speed a stron= g crosswind gust that overpowered full rudder forced me off the left side o= f the runway.=C2=A0 Did I mention it was a STRONG gust?=C2=A0 The ground wa= s reasonably smooth so I elected to continue the takeoff as the safer optio= n since I was within a second or two from liftoff.=C2=A0

That plan went fine until I hit the edge of an intersecting taxiway.= =C2=A0 There was about a 4 to 5 inch drop off at the edge and when my left = gear hit this obstacle at ~60 mph the following events happened in rapid su= ccession.=C2=A0 The left wheel pant impacting the taxiway edge caused all t= he attach points to break away and it began to rotate underneath the wheel.= =C2=A0 As it did, the sharp point at the rear impacted the underside of the= wing puncturing the skin 1 inch behind the wing tank. (This was the single= bit of good fortune that day =F0=9F=98=8F) The hole was big enough to drai= n the tank very quickly had it been a couple of inches further forward.=C2= =A0 BTW, This was the left side tank that always feeds the engine on my set= up.

I=E2=80=99m guessing the combined effect of hi= tting the edge of the taxiway and running over the wheel-pant was like hitt= ing an obstacle about 8 inches tall.=C2=A0 It was too much vertical load fo= r the structure to bear so the side of the fuselage above the gear leg buck= led up and folded like an accordion.=C2=A0 Since this is the area of the fu= selage where the forward attach point of the fuel tank is, it ripped the in= board rib of the fuel tank while folding up causing fuel to start pouring o= ut. =C2=A0

Since at this point I was right at mini= mum liftoff speed, the vertical energy of the impact launched me into the a= ir.=C2=A0 Time to fly the airplane.=C2=A0 Not enough room to land straight = ahead, the airplane feels 'funny' but controllable so I turn downwi= nd for a close in pattern.=C2=A0 It was at this point I noticed the fuel sp= raying into the cockpit down where the fuel line enters the fuselage.=C2=A0= The fumes are so strong that I worry about passing out or fire and think a= bout jettisoning the canopy but the fuel spray stops before I get serious a= bout that.=C2=A0 The plane is behaving oddly, the main thing being the airs= peed is way lower than it should be.=C2=A0 I began the takeoff with no flap= s but then I notice that they are now at full flaps, the throttle quadrant = and flap control switch are mounted just above the left gear so the switch = must have been forced on during the impact.=C2=A0 The linkage to the switch= is intact so I take off all the flaps and the airspeed starts coming up. = =C2=A0

I know I must have a damaged gear but not h= ow badly or even if the gear leg and wheel are still attached.=C2=A0 I radi= o Unicom requesting a visual check of my gear but no one is on.=C2=A0 I wor= ry momentarily about there being enough fuel left in the tank to complete t= he pattern, state of the landing gear, etc but make the conscious effort to= stop worrying about anything other than controlling the plane at the momen= t.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s the best advice I can give anyone in a situation li= ke this.=C2=A0

The rest of the pattern went 'n= ormally', the only difference being the decision on whether to land on = or to the side of the paved runway. =C2=A0 Not sure it was the right choice= in retrospect but I chose the pavement.=C2=A0 Did a full flap soft field l= anding approach and the relief of feeling rubber instead aluminum touching = down was amazing.=C2=A0 The gear was far too distorted to maintain normal c= ontrol but I came to a stop off the left side of runway and right side up.= =C2=A0

There were the usual airport bums who gave = me all the help needed to get the plane back in the hangar. =C2=A0 They too= k a look at it and said something like =E2=80=9CThat is some bad landing da= mage!=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0 =C2=A0They had a hard time believing it happened on = takeoff and made it around the pattern like that. =C2=A0#MeToo! =C2=A0=F0= =9F=98=B1

Matt Dralle who runs one of the RV forum= sites did have a landing incident that resulted in exactly the same damage= on his RV-8.=C2=A0 I checked to see what he decided about repairing and he= determined he would not try repairing so ended up replacing the entire fus= elage.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m going to repair instead.=C2=A0 Won=E2=80=99t be ea= sy but I=E2=80=99m sure it=E2=80=99s doable. I=E2=80=99ve almost completed = the removal of damaged stuff, I=E2=80=99ll order the parts and put back tog= ether when I return next spring.

Tracy Crook
=

On Sep 2, 2018, at 07:41, Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:

Andrew,=C2=A0=

I originally had an SL-30 and keying the mike would cau= se the engine to stumble. Mark Steitle=E2=80=99s SL-30 would cause erratic = capacitance fuel level readings (EFIS) when transmitting. Sam H. had engine= stumble but I=E2=80=99m not sure what radio. My 430w causes a small change= in the sound of the engine on the ground but not noticeable in flight. SL-= 30 has a service bulletin that helps with this problem. Using double shield= ed coax, keeping the coax away from EC wiring should help. Sam tested diffe= rent antenna locations more to the rear of the aircraft.=C2=A0
Bobby



Sent from my iPad
On Sep 1, 2018, at 8:43 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.n= et> wrote:

Update: ended up splitting coil power into 2 circuits, leading/tra= iling, with independent feeds/fuses/switches, now can check ignition on A &= amp; B ECU rather than just B as per EC2 wiring. Also cleaned up a bit more= wiring as I had inadvertently created a ground loop on my radio to efis se= rial cable by connecting the shield to ground at both ends by mistake. Radi= o works better but now an old problem has returned that I thought I had fix= ed as Tracy had years ago, given instructions on installing some part to th= e circuit board, when I transmit on radio the engine misses, think the inje= ctors are going full open and flooding engine again. seems to only happen i= n flight which has got me buggered as the engine cannot know its flying.

Going to try rewiring components back to the ba= ttery. as now I think it could be something to do with the battery being mo= ved for CoG and components losing their independent feeds & ground back= to the battery.

Andrew

On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 11:00 AM, Andrew Mar= tin andrew@mart= inag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrot= e:
Intereste= d to know what usually causes the breaker to trip?
Is it com= mon to get an amp draw intermittently higher than breaker rating from compo= nents that does not really justify increasing wire size & breaker ratin= g?

Up until this corrosion incident fuses have wor= ked for me, But have always used fuses & wire size much higher than com= ponent requirement, that way if a fuse blew, there was a substantial fault = somewhere that caused it. btw. only time a fuse has blown is on the ground = when some idiot stuck a screwdiver where it shouldn't go. but then I ha= ven't flown much either to say it wont happen in the air.
And= rew


On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 11:06 PM, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
I use Corrosion X on any electrica= l connection I think may need it.=C2=A0 But I don=E2=80=99t use fuses on an= ything in the airplane.=C2=A0 Just a personal hang up.=C2=A0 Having a manua= lly resettable breaker has saved me lots of times, even on non flight criti= cal stuff. =C2=A0

Tracy Crook


=


--
Kelly Troyer
Dyke Delta_"E= ventually"
13B_RD1C_EC2_EM2
--000000000000690be10574e66e97--