X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=QoAc5h6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=8qDJnuPQN3P2iuyXSidnJg==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=A-0mRrAPPO4A:10 a=dapMudl6Dx4A:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=VAMm1qzQAAAA:8 a=zeCeww8OAAAA:8 a=rTCnb47O5wyR5rpCQGwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=mEAMa8ODXzMR5Gm0oZIA:9 a=T1IQU27Wv5fFZ_nO:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=xmGugT5kI7RWeT601fq3:22 From: "Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f170.google.com ([209.85.215.170] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.6) with ESMTPS id 11553815 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 08:14:39 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.170; envelope-from=ceengland7@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f170.google.com with SMTP id r1-v6so2471564pgp.11 for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:14:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1IPt5wvV7rd9XxT35M7IYoSg1F7/FvidkxzT892wMoE=; b=IuP3i2t0qIWkJ/c6CYqa4OeqzoMvAvgWPa0AX8zA/YIG4NbL9On2wDdOINSA+iue20 0OnMEBzGOxHnLqfjyFtDBcCwFRMcpgUsZUQG0MuYwu31jPznknD1f8U1f35o4QAxodZo P7riptHcjBhRxcRDTSHQ449QRiektbi0+BSDidfv53A4Ld6/CA1Rll73XYzp8GaJdcHK wIvhXboWH8tNOtg1ugbTQG3hAt/rA9hJQNIITasuoI6gRMKjG2YrVbQAevoJu15tbhIn Kxndv9+o3i+TtoG+j79jEE+HI+Eo83LXuqtrBy3pDNtsJCQ/qdUOODc01XtiJlTewgnk ZrDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1IPt5wvV7rd9XxT35M7IYoSg1F7/FvidkxzT892wMoE=; b=L+Zn8NWWbZKnrd7tlgPG8fKALjuvawOJKDjPY0nhIuZTqxzoKkhyw8mVA6I6BptFFC IOYUAKg1mb4TCuE7yp6SquqMxgL+yxpFwdPcN5qXLTpGh+mcuJF26vaW/YGiPmIXTDrT +EAsku9EbSvUtBvd1fN9TThfLWu3iG2+XGAtmN+3ige++TIAgkpMNXlIcosbaNIY8I4I QoJjsKwviAAAUwrQuH+I6w5Tlxw0gihQmuP9f2MKAqvr8B4Z5uLr8wnLq+I21fqVnN8o BKGrxaVK/iOMygjDhXq+O98ggbob4tZ1f4ThkITjxf80PzYFHdFzvcFIChWefN4vBPuA EIAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlFan/02WfKTjrWaXKPnACGe1sbe7x2Im6VBvrE6UHc9kKRBCjxU gEAPbSFAlZLJ7eNPdSy63oh4APd3D7+dL/BXx1lBHA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPzANARWKS+vmj0vPiHifnposB/3YT/KS2DNkbbprnhjRB9+nxonrkOLWwJ0TNT3ql8zu3Gic9P14Bb+BrezPxs= X-Received: by 2002:a65:6086:: with SMTP id t6-v6mr30886309pgu.424.1535026460859; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:14:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a17:90a:8c8f:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 05:14:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2018 07:14:20 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] tailwheel training; was: Re: Turbo report To: Rotary motors in aircraft Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000eba35d05741932df" --000000000000eba35d05741932df Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Todd, You'll get diametrically opposed opinions on this, but I'm in the 'don't risk your airplane doing fast taxi runs' camp. In my opinion (with around a thousand t/w hours and about 30 nose wheel hours), running a taildragger down a runway at high speed while trying to *prevent* a takeoff is begging for disaster. It really doesn't teach you anything because you never do this in normal operation. And you've added a *lot* of workload, because you must both keep the tail in exactly the right attitude to prevent liftoff without dinging the prop, and play meatpuppet cruise control with the throttle, for the same reasons. All that while performing the normal duty of keeping the plane straight on the runway. I equate it to trying to balance on one foot on a basketball, instead of dribbling it. For you, maybe spinning a hockey puck on one finger while skating & maneuvering another puck with your stick. Why try? :-) If the runway's long enough and I felt compelled to practice while tied to the ground, I'd perform a normal takeoff to well above stall speed, then smoothly pull power & perform a normal landing. But if you're completely new to taildraggers, I wouldn't be doing any of that stuff without an instructor in the right seat, until he tells you you're ok to play alone. Why risk your plane? FWIW, Charlie On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 1:40 AM, Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Hi Dave; > How far downstream of the turbo are you measuring your TOT? > I measure mine about 16" downstream and so far in static ground runs I > only see about 550C max. But I also measure both rotor exhaust ports and > while I see temps of 950C, only 2" further downstream where the two strea= ms > enter the turbo I measure the TIT at usually 50C or more lower. So distan= ce > certainly does allow the the flame to cool, but I also assumed that the > turbo was converting some of the heat energy to mechanical energy along > with the mechanical energy it is already harvesting from the exhaust gas > flow. > > I hope to get better data soon but smokey skies from nearby forest fires > have darkened our skies and kept me on the ground. Been doing some hi-spe= ed > runs on the inactive runway between water-bombers coming and going from > their base which use that runway as a taxiway, while I'm trying to get a > handle on this tailwheel thing. I think it will be much easier when I can > just fly it off, instead of just the tail. > > Todd Bartrim > > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:26 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Dave >> >> That=E2=80=99s great news. TOT is the outlet temperature? If so I would = have >> expected it to be lower. The last coupe of years I have been successful = in >> keeping climb EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F on most flights. High OAT and qu= ick fuel >> stops are the exception. But I think the heat soaked engine and super >> charger is the cause. Performance actually increases after climbing and >> everything cools off. Typical F/A for initial climb is 11.3 :1 for 1600F >> EGT=E2=80=99s. I ended up with an O2 bung on each rotor and tuned for a = near >> perfect match between 28-40=E2=80=9D MP. Unfortunately the EGT spread v= aries a lot >> in other flight conditions. I=E2=80=99m slowly working on a turbo FWF t= o replace >> the supercharger. I=E2=80=99ve done most of the work on the header with = he >> exception of wastegate, down pipe and bungs. The turbo is located as >> faraway from the exhaust ports as I could mount it in hopes of dropping >> EGT=E2=80=99s a little more. >> >> Link to photos >> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/41hrm00tyqapp0s/AAAiusuG0BHTJy9inZujGj-Va?dl= =3D0 >> >> Bobby >> >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:54 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >> Hi Bobby, >> >> Yes, no new torbo failures since I decided to keep TOT (the only place I >> measure exhaust) less than 890C. Basically, I treat it like an aircraf= t >> engine. Rich of peak for climbing and decending (TOT around 810C) then >> lean at altitude when the MAP is lower (around 870C). Peak TOT is arou= nd >> 915C. >> >> Dave Leonard >> >> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 3:18 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Dave >>> >>> How is the turbo holding up? Is keeping EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F keep= ing it >>> alive? >>> >>> Bobby >>> 500 hrs >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:06 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Kelly! >>> Yes, I am still using the flywheel and strongly suggest not using the >>> flex plate. Adaption was easy with a trip to a local machine shop. >>> Details are in the archives. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 2:41 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >>> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> Not aware of a flexplate/flywheel replacement made specifically for >>>> use with >>>> Tracy's redrive but Dave Leonard (Turbo/13B-RV6) adapted an aluminum >>>> racing >>>> manual transmission flywheel to his redrive after his flexplate >>>> developed serious >>>> cracks while qualifying to race at the Reno National Air-Races several >>>> years ago. >>>> >>>> Perhaps Dave will jump in here with how he did it.......I know there >>>> are a series >>>> of E mails in the archives with photos of how he did it....As far as I >>>> know he still >>>> is flying with this flywheel........FWIW >>>> >>>> Kelly Troyer >>>> >>>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Pam & Dave Williams >>>> padajute@idcnet.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I am looking for a flex plate for hooking up my 13B to Tracy Crooks >>>>> redrive. >>>>> If that is not available, is anybody making a flywheel replacement? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Dave Williams >>>>> Whitewater WI >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>>> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 9:37 AM >>>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary : Re Tension Bolts >>>>> >>>>> I too broke a tension bolt several years ago and was fortunate enough >>>>> to get >>>>> a set of the NEW ones 0.500" from a friend - highly recommended. >>>>> Mazda increased the size of those bolts for a reason and my original >>>>> set >>>>> were all spiraled with silicone ... put a little silicone on the 0.50= " >>>>> as >>>>> well. >>>>> Jeff >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dave, >>>>> >>>>> Run a spiral of RTV around the body of those tension bolts next time >>>>> you >>>>> remove them. That will pretty much eliminate the vibration breakage. >>>>> Don't >>>>> put it on the threads. >>>>> >>>>> Bill B >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I am a newbie on the site. I have a Tailwind with a 13B and Tracy's >>>>> controls >>>>> with his redrive. To this point I have been very pleased with the >>>>> combination. Last month I broke a tension bolt and have ordered new a= nd >>>>> improved .500" bolts from Mazdatrix. My original .312" bolts broke fr= om >>>>> vibration. I have 20 hours on the motor and never had any cooling >>>>> issues. I >>>>> suppose that means I am over cooled, but that is okay with me. I will >>>>> make >>>>> cooling improvements when I am back in the air. My 13B is stock and I >>>>> run it >>>>> at 6,300 RPM. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Dave Williams >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --000000000000eba35d05741932df Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Todd,=C2=A0

You'll get diametric= ally opposed opinions on this, but I'm in the 'don't risk your = airplane doing fast taxi runs' camp. In my opinion (with around a thous= and t/w hours and about 30 nose wheel hours), running a taildragger down a = runway at high speed while trying to *prevent* a takeoff is begging for dis= aster. It really doesn't teach you anything because you never do this i= n normal operation. And you've added a *lot* of workload, because you m= ust both keep the tail in exactly the right attitude to prevent liftoff wit= hout dinging the prop, and play meatpuppet cruise control with the throttle= , for the same reasons. All that while performing the normal duty of keepin= g the plane straight on the runway. I equate it to trying to balance on one= foot on a basketball, instead of dribbling it. For you, maybe spinning a h= ockey puck on one finger while skating & maneuvering another puck with= =C2=A0 your stick. Why try? :-)

If the runway'= s long enough and I felt compelled to practice while tied to the ground, I&= #39;d perform a normal takeoff to well above stall speed, then smoothly pul= l power & perform a normal landing. But if you're completely new to= taildraggers, I wouldn't be doing any of that stuff without an instruc= tor in the right seat, until he tells you you're ok to play alone. Why = risk your plane?

FWIW,

Ch= arlie

On Thu, = Aug 23, 2018 at 1:40 AM, Todd Bartrim = bartrim@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Dave;
= =C2=A0 How far downstream of the turbo are you measuring your TOT?=C2=A0
I measure mine about 16" downstream and so far in static groun= d runs I only see about 550C max. But I also measure both rotor exhaust por= ts and while I see temps of 950C, only 2" further downstream where the= two streams enter the turbo I measure the TIT at usually 50C or more lower= . So distance certainly does allow the the flame to cool, but I also assume= d that the turbo was converting some of the heat energy to mechanical energ= y along with the mechanical energy it is already harvesting from the exhaus= t gas flow.

I hope to get better data soon but smo= key skies from nearby forest fires have darkened our skies and kept me on t= he ground. Been doing some hi-speed runs on the inactive runway between wat= er-bombers coming and going from their base which use that runway as a taxi= way, while I'm trying to get a handle on this tailwheel thing. I think = it will be much easier when I can just fly it off, instead of just the tail= .

= Todd Bartrim


On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:26 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net> wrote:
Dave

That=E2= =80=99s great news. TOT is the outlet temperature? If so I would have expec= ted it to be lower. The last coupe of years I have been successful in keepi= ng climb EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F on most flights. High OAT and quick fuel= stops are the exception. But I think the heat soaked engine and super char= ger is the cause. Performance actually increases after climbing and everyth= ing cools off. Typical F/A for initial climb is 11.3 :1 for 1600F EGT=E2=80= =99s. I ended up with an O2 bung on each rotor and tuned for a near perfect= match between 28-40=E2=80=9D MP.=C2=A0 Unfortunately the EGT spread varies= a lot in other flight conditions.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m slowly working on a tu= rbo FWF to replace the supercharger. I=E2=80=99ve done most of the work on = the header with he exception of wastegate, down pipe and bungs. The turbo i= s located as faraway from the exhaust ports as I could mount it in hopes of= dropping EGT=E2=80=99s a little more.=C2=A0

Link = to photos

Bobby


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:54 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net= > wrote:

Hi Bobby,

Yes, no new torbo= failures since I decided to keep TOT (the only place I measure exhaust) le= ss than 890C.=C2=A0 Basically,=C2=A0 I treat it like an aircraft engine.=C2= =A0 Rich of peak for climbing and decending (TOT around 810C) then lean at = altitude when the MAP is lower=C2=A0 (around 870C).=C2=A0 Peak TOT is aroun= d 915C.=C2=A0=C2=A0

Dave= Leonard=C2=A0

O= n Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 3:18 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> = wrote:
Dave
<= br>
How is the turbo holding up?=C2=A0 Is keeping EGT=E2=80=99s u= nder 1600F keeping it alive?

Bobby=C2=A0
500 hrs

Sent from my iPad

O= n Aug 22, 2018, at 5:06 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thanks Kelly!
Yes, I am= still using the flywheel and strongly suggest not using the flex plate.=C2= =A0 Adaption was easy with a trip to a local machine shop.=C2=A0 Details ar= e in the archives.=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 2:41 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Dave,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Not aware= of a flexplate/flywheel replacement made specifically for use with=C2=A0
Tracy's redrive but Dave Leonard (Turbo/13B-RV6) adapted an al= uminum racing
manual transmission flywheel to his redrive after h= is flexplate developed serious
cracks while qualifying to race at= the Reno National Air-Races several years ago.

= =C2=A0 Perhaps Dave will jump in here with how he did it.......I know there= are a series=C2=A0
of E mails in the archives with photos of how= he did it....As far as I know he still
is flying with this flywh= eel........FWIW

Kelly Troyer

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:1= 7 PM, Pam & Dave Williams padajute@idcnet.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>= wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for a flex plate for hooking up my 13B to Tracy Crooks redrive= .
If that is not available, is anybody making a flywheel replacement?

Thanks,
Dave Williams
Whitewater WI

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@= lancaironline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 9:37 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary : Re Tension Bolts

I too broke a tension bolt several years ago and was fortunate enough to ge= t
a set of the NEW ones 0.500" from a friend - highly recommended.
Mazda increased the size of those bolts for a reason and my original set were all spiraled with silicone ... put a little silicone on the 0.50"= as
well.
Jeff


Dave,

Run a spiral of RTV around the body of those tension bolts next time you remove them.=C2=A0 That will pretty much eliminate the vibration breakage.= =C2=A0 Don't
put it on the threads.

Bill B

Hello,

I am a newbie on the site. I have a Tailwind with a 13B and Tracy's con= trols
with his redrive. To this point I have been very pleased with the
combination. Last month I broke a tension bolt and have ordered new and
improved .500" bolts from Mazdatrix. My original .312" bolts brok= e from
vibration. I have 20 hours on the motor and never had any cooling issues. I=
suppose that means I am over cooled, but that is okay with me. I will make<= br> cooling improvements when I am back in the air. My 13B is stock and I run i= t
at 6,300 RPM.

Thanks,
Dave Williams








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