X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=QoAc5h6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h/2l+vn1J2DkYOOB9BQDdQ==:117 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=xXDCcK6TKBsA:10 a=dapMudl6Dx4A:10 a=UKPAHat8AAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=VAMm1qzQAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=zeCeww8OAAAA:8 a=IDX99P9QyKhrIF42NHQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=zKGvwuNObRPczOh1AKcA:9 a=s4ZG2GLAuu2a59_m:21 a=Fc6xXSS-RxGHxrvp76Qp:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=xmGugT5kI7RWeT601fq3:22 From: "Todd Bartrim bartrim@gmail.com" Received: from mail-ed1-f52.google.com ([209.85.208.52] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.6) with ESMTPS id 11553322 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 23 Aug 2018 02:40:50 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.208.52; envelope-from=bartrim@gmail.com Received: by mail-ed1-f52.google.com with SMTP id h4-v6so2875123edi.6 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 23:40:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=j3owg+ZAI6Mau0REP+DgP+/KyOQZU3THU8Qcq2aJW0E=; b=lh1DuQH+93nwYG7Pb2O1I9FofwvW3w2VFkacS1I7GToWlSLjgXpXbvmCiYojVL7dlR gb76kKC4YdBufXLnNhY1YqiVb7WSOqEd7bjxT2dxyRuadYDkmvst67HMt4W/WCKAWSj8 jhm67o1ECGy0G5rOzczFC6adLOG4CoMGyUHCG9SY1+sKbdcvYjBiiwwKzHTZuR06x6as 7sLW2dyGL7vXJDRmK+eXlWQtCsOFOpc/x8tVE45TaCiLEJbAXgZ1Hpurnzq5lAFp/pT2 Q0YbvauCZ1tv5TopYAt901Q9hqxPWUyNPCS5OL7+WuGNYgIhGILkS9qMLkMs3swooOUY c/OQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=j3owg+ZAI6Mau0REP+DgP+/KyOQZU3THU8Qcq2aJW0E=; b=t01YQ9KJ79IbZZpYkpxaLcKNxJn0vi3PRPwbFPizZ8B+KUvJWg453JKGDKQfP8t1f9 FU+u49MRHhr+N0qNj9hQu6qGRSzn34BQ96JrK4X5uJopzlMSoJXiJ7zpRP5+3mGq/ClK vC8mkim/sOr03W0qs8D9SArEGfFj2A/1WFd9sU7sYTfvfKOCzp4axgQtFBE+jqnpqoc0 dShEnCI3Kpj8FR5qDuXYaSrcmZ6o0+ZKFKTpH+Op6UyqLEiy9j/zfwrvVqCF2W//mBbz Utac4l3XMPjHOY6ODHZGt+MNMJm0PyElY2Yv157YZftyesiD8HVhFfxEPy0nMQQGQzsH jS7Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlF5pVm+cCszWUWPUxL5oKp0GrvZWpxUXyMebafi92B2JyxsGJ42 B6VannUqDvEfP9uOT32DteNm0vPr517XAZLh53tl X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPw7pEf11efNNKW8+UfI91kg3JyNxTKPTSY1MR7tkB1ncvmZAa0cqmel1SniV0W40T26/A/0mxfLNFjhnRmuLEY= X-Received: by 2002:a50:bec2:: with SMTP id e2-v6mr69788207edk.283.1535006433101; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 23:40:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 23:40:20 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Turbo report To: FlyRotary Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002c4ce505741489de" --0000000000002c4ce505741489de Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dave; How far downstream of the turbo are you measuring your TOT? I measure mine about 16" downstream and so far in static ground runs I only see about 550C max. But I also measure both rotor exhaust ports and while I see temps of 950C, only 2" further downstream where the two streams enter the turbo I measure the TIT at usually 50C or more lower. So distance certainly does allow the the flame to cool, but I also assumed that the turbo was converting some of the heat energy to mechanical energy along with the mechanical energy it is already harvesting from the exhaust gas flow. I hope to get better data soon but smokey skies from nearby forest fires have darkened our skies and kept me on the ground. Been doing some hi-speed runs on the inactive runway between water-bombers coming and going from their base which use that runway as a taxiway, while I'm trying to get a handle on this tailwheel thing. I think it will be much easier when I can just fly it off, instead of just the tail. Todd Bartrim On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:26 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > Dave > > That=E2=80=99s great news. TOT is the outlet temperature? If so I would h= ave > expected it to be lower. The last coupe of years I have been successful i= n > keeping climb EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F on most flights. High OAT and qui= ck fuel > stops are the exception. But I think the heat soaked engine and super > charger is the cause. Performance actually increases after climbing and > everything cools off. Typical F/A for initial climb is 11.3 :1 for 1600F > EGT=E2=80=99s. I ended up with an O2 bung on each rotor and tuned for a n= ear > perfect match between 28-40=E2=80=9D MP. Unfortunately the EGT spread va= ries a lot > in other flight conditions. I=E2=80=99m slowly working on a turbo FWF to= replace > the supercharger. I=E2=80=99ve done most of the work on the header with h= e > exception of wastegate, down pipe and bungs. The turbo is located as > faraway from the exhaust ports as I could mount it in hopes of dropping > EGT=E2=80=99s a little more. > > Link to photos > https://www.dropbox.com/sh/41hrm00tyqapp0s/AAAiusuG0BHTJy9inZujGj-Va?dl= =3D0 > > Bobby > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:54 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi Bobby, > > Yes, no new torbo failures since I decided to keep TOT (the only place I > measure exhaust) less than 890C. Basically, I treat it like an aircraft > engine. Rich of peak for climbing and decending (TOT around 810C) then > lean at altitude when the MAP is lower (around 870C). Peak TOT is aroun= d > 915C. > > Dave Leonard > > On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 3:18 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net < > flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > >> Dave >> >> How is the turbo holding up? Is keeping EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F keepi= ng it >> alive? >> >> Bobby >> 500 hrs >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >> On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:06 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >> Thanks Kelly! >> Yes, I am still using the flywheel and strongly suggest not using the >> flex plate. Adaption was easy with a trip to a local machine shop. >> Details are in the archives. >> >> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 2:41 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com < >> flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: >> >>> Dave, >>> >>> Not aware of a flexplate/flywheel replacement made specifically for >>> use with >>> Tracy's redrive but Dave Leonard (Turbo/13B-RV6) adapted an aluminum >>> racing >>> manual transmission flywheel to his redrive after his flexplate >>> developed serious >>> cracks while qualifying to race at the Reno National Air-Races several >>> years ago. >>> >>> Perhaps Dave will jump in here with how he did it.......I know there >>> are a series >>> of E mails in the archives with photos of how he did it....As far as I >>> know he still >>> is flying with this flywheel........FWIW >>> >>> Kelly Troyer >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 4:17 PM, Pam & Dave Williams padajute@idcnet.co= m >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I am looking for a flex plate for hooking up my 13B to Tracy Crooks >>>> redrive. >>>> If that is not available, is anybody making a flywheel replacement? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Dave Williams >>>> Whitewater WI >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net] >>>> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 9:37 AM >>>> To: Rotary motors in aircraft >>>> Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary : Re Tension Bolts >>>> >>>> I too broke a tension bolt several years ago and was fortunate enough >>>> to get >>>> a set of the NEW ones 0.500" from a friend - highly recommended. >>>> Mazda increased the size of those bolts for a reason and my original s= et >>>> were all spiraled with silicone ... put a little silicone on the 0.50" >>>> as >>>> well. >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> >>>> Dave, >>>> >>>> Run a spiral of RTV around the body of those tension bolts next time y= ou >>>> remove them. That will pretty much eliminate the vibration breakage. >>>> Don't >>>> put it on the threads. >>>> >>>> Bill B >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I am a newbie on the site. I have a Tailwind with a 13B and Tracy's >>>> controls >>>> with his redrive. To this point I have been very pleased with the >>>> combination. Last month I broke a tension bolt and have ordered new an= d >>>> improved .500" bolts from Mazdatrix. My original .312" bolts broke fro= m >>>> vibration. I have 20 hours on the motor and never had any cooling >>>> issues. I >>>> suppose that means I am over cooled, but that is okay with me. I will >>>> make >>>> cooling improvements when I am back in the air. My 13B is stock and I >>>> run it >>>> at 6,300 RPM. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Dave Williams >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --0000000000002c4ce505741489de Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Dave;
=C2=A0 How far downstream of the turbo are yo= u measuring your TOT?=C2=A0
I measure mine about 16" downstr= eam and so far in static ground runs I only see about 550C max. But I also = measure both rotor exhaust ports and while I see temps of 950C, only 2"= ; further downstream where the two streams enter the turbo I measure the TI= T at usually 50C or more lower. So distance certainly does allow the the fl= ame to cool, but I also assumed that the turbo was converting some of the h= eat energy to mechanical energy along with the mechanical energy it is alre= ady harvesting from the exhaust gas flow.

I hope t= o get better data soon but smokey skies from nearby forest fires have darke= ned our skies and kept me on the ground. Been doing some hi-speed runs on t= he inactive runway between water-bombers coming and going from their base w= hich use that runway as a taxiway, while I'm trying to get a handle on = this tailwheel thing. I think it will be much easier when I can just fly it= off, instead of just the tail.

Todd Bartrim


On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:26 PM Bobby J. Hug= hes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wr= ote:
<= /span>
Dave

That=E2=80=99s great news. TOT is = the outlet temperature? If so I would have expected it to be lower. The las= t coupe of years I have been successful in keeping climb EGT=E2=80=99s unde= r 1600F on most flights. High OAT and quick fuel stops are the exception. B= ut I think the heat soaked engine and super charger is the cause. Performan= ce actually increases after climbing and everything cools off. Typical F/A = for initial climb is 11.3 :1 for 1600F EGT=E2=80=99s. I ended up with an O2= bung on each rotor and tuned for a near perfect match between 28-40=E2=80= =9D MP.=C2=A0 Unfortunately the EGT spread varies a lot in other flight con= ditions.=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m slowly working on a turbo FWF to replace the sup= ercharger. I=E2=80=99ve done most of the work on the header with he excepti= on of wastegate, down pipe and bungs. The turbo is located as faraway from = the exhaust ports as I could mount it in hopes of dropping EGT=E2=80=99s a = little more.=C2=A0

Link to photos

Bobby

=

Sent fro= m my iPad

On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:54 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com &= lt;flyrota= ry@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=
Hi Bobby,

Yes, no new torbo failures since I decided to keep TOT (the only place I= measure exhaust) less than 890C.=C2=A0 Basically,=C2=A0 I treat it like an= aircraft engine.=C2=A0 Rich of peak for climbing and decending (TOT around= 810C) then lean at altitude when the MAP is lower=C2=A0 (around 870C).=C2= =A0 Peak TOT is around 915C.=C2=A0=C2=A0

<= div dir=3D"auto">Dave Leonard=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 3:18 PM Bobby J. Hughes bhughes@qnsi.net <flyrotary@lan= caironline.net> wrote:
Dave

How is the turbo holding up?=C2=A0 Is = keeping EGT=E2=80=99s under 1600F keeping it alive?

Bobby=C2=A0
500 hrs

Sent from my iPad
On Aug 22, 2018, at 5:06 PM, David Leonard wdleonard@gmail.com <<= a href=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"= _blank">flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Thanks Kelly!
Yes, I= am still using the flywheel and strongly suggest not using the flex plate.= =C2=A0 Adaption was easy with a trip to a local machine shop.=C2=A0 Details= are in the archives.=C2=A0

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018, 2:41 PM Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com &= lt;flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Dave,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Not aw= are of a flexplate/flywheel replacement made specifically for use with=C2= =A0
Tracy's redrive but Dave Leonard (Turbo/13B-RV6) adapted = an aluminum racing
manual transmission flywheel to his redrive af= ter his flexplate developed serious
cracks while qualifying to ra= ce at the Reno National Air-Races several years ago.

=C2=A0 Perhaps Dave will jump in here with how he did it.......I know th= ere are a series=C2=A0
of E mails in the archives with photos of = how he did it....As far as I know he still
is flying with this fl= ywheel........FWIW

Kelly Troyer

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at = 4:17 PM, Pam & Dave Williams padajute@idcnet.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hello,

I am looking for a flex plate for hooking up my 13B to Tracy Crooks redrive= .
If that is not available, is anybody making a flywheel replacement?

Thanks,
Dave Williams
Whitewater WI

-----Original Message-----
From: Rotary motors in aircraft [mailto:flyrotary@lanca= ironline.net]
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 9:37 AM
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironli= ne.net>
Subject: [FlyRotary] Re: flyrotary : Re Tension Bolts

I too broke a tension bolt several years ago and was fortunate enough to ge= t
a set of the NEW ones 0.500" from a friend - highly recommended.
Mazda increased the size of those bolts for a reason and my original set were all spiraled with silicone ... put a little silicone on the 0.50"= as
well.
Jeff


Dave,

Run a spiral of RTV around the body of those tension bolts next time you remove them.=C2=A0 That will pretty much eliminate the vibration breakage.= =C2=A0 Don't
put it on the threads.

Bill B

Hello,

I am a newbie on the site. I have a Tailwind with a 13B and Tracy's con= trols
with his redrive. To this point I have been very pleased with the
combination. Last month I broke a tension bolt and have ordered new and
improved .500" bolts from Mazdatrix. My original .312" bolts brok= e from
vibration. I have 20 hours on the motor and never had any cooling issues. I=
suppose that means I am over cooled, but that is okay with me. I will make<= br> cooling improvements when I am back in the air. My 13B is stock and I run i= t
at 6,300 RPM.

Thanks,
Dave Williams







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