From: "Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: oil passage size
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 07:16:50 +0800
References: <list-11469875@logan.com>
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-11469875@logan.com>
Message-Id: <166B3F79-6D62-46AB-AC52-4DB5BDCAB894@gmail.com>

Thanks very much Lynn.
Steve

> On 3 Aug 2018, at 1:35 am, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> In a message dated 8/2/2018 12:41:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
>=20
> Lynn
> I=E2=80=99m using sweeping AN bends. I use Mobile 1 10W30 in Perth OAT =
temps 50-100. Should I change to a higher weight?
> In relation to the gallery are we talking about internal or at the top =
of the engine that connects with the oil filter pedestal?
>=20
> Thanks for the wisdom.
> Steve
> When we got our first dose of Mobile one, about 25 new police =
cruisers.  The oil people were using the cruisers as a test of their =
oil. So the oil was going to be free to the city. One of them didn't =
make it to the police garage from the dealership for the addition of =
lights and such. Lost a rod bearing. In the next 6 weeks we lost two =
more engines. The deal with Mobile was called off and all of those =
cruisers lost the Mobile oil and went back to some god awful cheap fleet =
oil that never failed. That faulty start up was over 40 years ago.  =
While it is probably much improved since then and is used in many fancy =
cars, my bet is that the car companies get it for free or for very =
little just so Mobile gets years of after sales. I wouldn't put in my =
lawn mower engine.=20
> Cars and trucks are usually governed so as wide open throttle cannot =
generate enough heat to out run their cooling systems. So, if you cross =
the Southwestern desert at full tilt, you can probably make it in a =
stock car or truck. =20
> So the engine is not producing its full HP. Very few people ever get =
to try this test. The point is that the car engine has been operated =
well below its capability.  Now comes the nut cases that use car engines =
in airplanes. What is the most often seen problem? Over heating. Where =
the 115 HP car seldom sees more than 2,000 RPM, or uses the full 115 HP, =
we now demand  160 HP from that same engine at 5,500 RPM. And we want it =
for 3 hours. That would be very close to a 100% duty cycle.=20
> Water and oil coolers are tested in SAE designed test facilities.   =
Just guessing now......Tests piece sealed against the walls of the cell. =
Specific airflow and temp....Coolant in and out temps and pressures =
recorded... Performance recorded for thousands of combinations. The =
point is that if your installation does not resemble the SAE test cell, =
The rating of that cooler is pointless. It is always lower than the =
rating.  So, is your cooler 90 degrees to the air flow?  Is it glued =
into the ducting with some kind of sealant?  Very few installations are =
even close to adequate. Many really great looking installations don't =
work.  Work backwards from the BTU output you expect. Size the coolers =
and add 50% or more.  More than 50% of the total heat load is in the =
oil.
> Racing synthetics collect heat quickly, and give it up quickly. They =
are still oil at stupid high temps. They have higher film strength than =
street oils. They have more anti foaming agents than street oils.
> The rotary sprays oil into the rotors to cool them. It gets foamed up =
real proper. This appears as lower oil pressure. Plus the spray jets are =
a big oil leak by themselves. Foam is an insulator. This makes that =
cooler even less efficient. Sorry, I run on some times.
> The front rotor bearing seems to fail more often than the rear. This =
is for racers or if the history of that engine is unknown. We pipe oil =
into the end of the gallery that goes straight into the front main =
bearing. Do not plug any dowel pins.   10W30 oil that has a base flow =
rating of 10 weight oil. The 30 number is what the flow rating is at =
operating temp. Done with Polymers that link up at elevated temps. =
Polymers are not oil. So we used 10-40 or 20-50 weight RedLine synthetic =
racing oil.  Looking for 160 degrees oil and 180 degrees coolant. Have a =
lot of rotary folks been able to get down to those numbers?=20
> Lynn E. Hanover
>  =20
>  2 Aug 2018, at 9:51 am, Account lehanover lehanover@aol.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >=20
> > The use of sweep 90s rather than drilled 90s will perk things up. =
The use of a racing synthetic in 40 or 50 weight will perk things up =
some more. Look into the gallery and see if the oil hole in the =
stationary gear is overhanging the gallery opening. Correct if required.
> >=20
> > Use only K&N filters. 350 pound burst cans. Friends don't let =
friends buy Fram filters......EVER.
> > Lynn E. Hanover
> >=20
> > In a message dated 8/1/2018 10:53:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:
> >=20
> > The hoses have to flow the total oil pumped.
> > Two galleries into engine, 1 to ocv, other to bearings so can be =
smaller than hose size as neither flow all oil.
> > Andrew
> >=20
> > On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 at 10:28 pm, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > I=E2=80=99m guessing the new system will be a total loop of AN10 =
1500mm through 6 90deg fittings Mocal 44 row cooler (<6psi pressure =
drop) and remote spin on K&N oil filter.
> >=20
> > Steve Izett
> >=20
> > > On 1 Aug 2018, at 8:22 pm, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com =
<flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > >=20
> > > 10mm=3D ~0.394 inches
> > > AN-8=3D 0.50 Inches
> > >=20
> > > Do you have really long runs of oil lines?
> > >=20
> > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 1:30 AM, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > > Hi guys
> > > I measured the oil passage diameters (bearing and regulator =
passages) under the oil filter pedestal of a Renesis today.
> > > They are 10mm in case anyone else was wondering.
> > > I don=E2=80=99t know what possessed me all those years ago, but I =
plumbed the oil system in AN-8.
> > > I contest Neil=E2=80=99s claim of being the greatest idiot.
> > > In the process of rebuilding it with a AN-10 plumbing and using a =
Mocal 44 row cooler.
> > >=20
> > > Still close to finished!
> > >=20
> > > Cheers
> > >=20
> > > Steve Izett
> > > Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD-1C EC3 EM3=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > > > On 31 Jul 2018, at 7:47 pm, Stephen Izett =
stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> > > >=20
> > > > Hi guys
> > > > Does anyone know off hand or have a rear housing handy to =
measure the oil passage diameters (bearing and regulator passages) under =
the oil filter pedestal of a Renesis?
> > > > Much appreciated.
> > > >=20
> > > > Steve Izett
> > > > --
> > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
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> > >=20
> > >=20
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> > >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > --
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> > --=20
> > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag
>=20
>=20
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