X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=QoAc5h6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=EGqiCRIyzyVPfED4Pu6ufw==:117 a=29enrAnRItQSTk1fLlBiTQ==:17 a=7oIiURvLaKEA:10 a=17xQtuQ_ucwA:10 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=Fee85h93u3AA:10 a=dapMudl6Dx4A:10 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=Xu7yOECiy4h9NDHibdQA:9 a=O7UErd667MHPuzYO:21 a=F7SLKVLAovinnarM:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=nUppJ12WOJ3jjHz21ngA:9 a=27idvg9iJ3qU3tav:21 a=WHQ8FhsjBQ9MXAXS:21 a=QANDNPdHYKODgu0C:21 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 From: "Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com" Received: from omr-m020e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.20] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.6) with ESMTPS id 11469874 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:36:05 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=204.29.186.20; envelope-from=lehanover@aol.com Received: from mtaomg-mae02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mae02.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.144]) by omr-m020e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 30C7B3800094 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:35:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-mdx08g.mail.aol.com (core-mdx08.mail.aol.com [10.75.23.5]) by mtaomg-mae02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id C469038000082 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:35:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from 71.67.186.114 by webjas-vac038.srv.aolmail.net (10.96.19.41) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 02 Aug 2018 13:35:47 -0400 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 13:35:47 -0400 To: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Message-Id: <164fbb5b797-c87-1762f@webjas-vac038.srv.aolmail.net> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: oil passage size MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_127503_220977465.1533231347606" X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: JAS DWEB X-Originating-IP: [71.67.186.114] x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1533231348; bh=EnYK8HwZRC0+5frGOrPn5My2aI3qsisG0rIEzxJwywo=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Do5VGaPdzdxmwujPneEUCe1wuXix89/yHRY9+cPVQJxriW9KLeQS/lAoYKDIoTPUU JNM5O1gxCBP9CaiaPh+tBmtMXmdAaGKm/GuqQo4V4Eji4kpdnbjMJ3iL3YEPjXv32V kIW1LnhUeBxjJvZrIVx6jJ4oXYIwV+DsJRVm/vZg= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe905b6340f34d80 ------=_Part_127503_220977465.1533231347606 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In a message dated 8/2/2018 12:41:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes: =C2=A0 Lynn I=E2=80=99m using sweeping AN bends. I use Mobile 1 10W30 in Perth OAT temp= s 50-100. Should I change to a higher weight? In relation to the gallery are we talking about internal or at the top of t= he engine that connects with the oil filter pedestal? Thanks for the wisdom. Steve When we got our first dose of Mobile one, about 25 new police cruiser= s.=C2=A0 The oil people were using the cruisers as a test of their oil. So = the oil was going to be free to the city. One of them didn't make it to the= police garage from the dealership for the addition of lights and such. Lo= st a rod bearing. In the next 6 weeks we lost two more engines. The deal wi= th Mobile was called off and all of those cruisers lost the Mobile oil and = went back to some god awful cheap fleet oil that never failed. That faulty = start up was over 40 years ago.=C2=A0 While it is probably much improved si= nce then and is used in many fancy cars, my bet is that the car companies g= et it for free or for very little just so Mobile gets years of after sales.= I wouldn't put in my lawn mower engine.=C2=A0Cars and trucks are usually g= overned so as wide open throttle cannot generate enough heat to out run the= ir cooling systems. So, if you cross the Southwestern desert at full tilt, = you can probably make it in a stock car or truck.=C2=A0=C2=A0So the engine = is not producing its full HP. Very few people ever get to try this test. Th= e point is that the car engine has been operated well below its capability.= =C2=A0 Now comes the nut cases that use car engines in airplanes. What is t= he most often seen problem? Over heating. Where the 115 HP car seldom sees = more than 2,000 RPM, or uses the full 115 HP, we now demand=C2=A0 160 HP fr= om that same engine at 5,500 RPM. And we want it for 3 hours. That would be= very close to a 100% duty cycle.=C2=A0 Water and oil coolers are tested in= SAE designed test facilities.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Just guessing now......Tests pie= ce sealed against the walls of the cell. Specific airflow and temp....Coola= nt in and out temps and pressures recorded... Performance recorded for thou= sands of combinations. The point is that if your installation does not rese= mble the SAE test cell, The rating of that cooler is pointless. It is alway= s lower than the rating.=C2=A0 So, is your cooler 90 degrees to the air flo= w?=C2=A0 Is it glued into the ducting with some kind of sealant?=C2=A0 Very= few installations are even close to adequate. Many really great looking in= stallations don't work.=C2=A0 Work backwards from the BTU output you expect= . Size the coolers and add 50% or more.=C2=A0 More than 50% of the total he= at load is in the oil.Racing synthetics collect heat quickly, and give it u= p quickly. They are still oil at stupid high temps. They have higher film s= trength than street oils. They have more anti foaming agents than street oi= ls.The rotary sprays oil into the rotors to cool them. It gets foamed up re= al proper. This appears as lower oil pressure. Plus the spray jets are a bi= g oil leak by themselves. Foam is an insulator. This makes that cooler even= less efficient. Sorry, I run on some times.The front rotor bearing seems t= o fail more often than the rear. This is for racers or if the history of th= at engine is unknown. We pipe oil into the end of the gallery that goes str= aight into the front main bearing. Do not plug any dowel pins.=C2=A0 =C2=A0= 10W30 oil that has a base flow rating of 10 weight oil. The 30 number is wh= at the flow rating is at operating temp. Done with Polymers that link up at= elevated temps.=C2=A0Polymers are not oil. So we used 10-40 or 20-50 weigh= t RedLine synthetic racing oil.=C2=A0 Looking for 160 degrees oil and 180 d= egrees coolant. Have a lot of rotary folks been able to get down to those n= umbers?=C2=A0Lynn E. Hanover=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A02 Aug 2018, at 9:51 am, Accou= nt lehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: >=20 > The use of sweep 90s rather than drilled 90s will perk things up. The use= of a racing synthetic in 40 or 50 weight will perk things up some more. Lo= ok into the gallery and see if the oil hole in the stationary gear is overh= anging the gallery opening. Correct if required. >=20 > Use only K&N filters. 350 pound burst cans. Friends don't let friends buy= Fram filters......EVER. > Lynn E. Hanover >=20 > In a message dated 8/1/2018 10:53:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >=20 > The hoses have to flow the total oil pumped. > Two galleries into engine, 1 to ocv, other to bearings so can be smaller = than hose size as neither flow all oil. > Andrew >=20 > On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 at 10:28 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > I=E2=80=99m guessing the new system will be a total loop of AN10 1500mm t= hrough 6 90deg fittings Mocal 44 row cooler (<6psi pressure drop) and remot= e spin on K&N oil filter. >=20 > Steve Izett >=20 > > On 1 Aug 2018, at 8:22 pm, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com wrote: > >=20 > > 10mm=3D ~0.394 inches > > AN-8=3D 0.50 Inches > >=20 > > Do you have really long runs of oil lines? > >=20 > > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 1:30 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote: > > Hi guys > > I measured the oil passage diameters (bearing and regulator passages) u= nder the oil filter pedestal of a Renesis today. > > They are 10mm in case anyone else was wondering. > > I don=E2=80=99t know what possessed me all those years ago, but I plumb= ed the oil system in AN-8. > > I contest Neil=E2=80=99s claim of being the greatest idiot. > > In the process of rebuilding it with a AN-10 plumbing and using a Mocal= 44 row cooler. > >=20 > > Still close to finished! > >=20 > > Cheers > >=20 > > Steve Izett > > Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD-1C EC3 EM3=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > > On 31 Jul 2018, at 7:47 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com wrote: > > >=20 > > > Hi guys > > > Does anyone know off hand or have a rear housing handy to measure the= oil passage diameters (bearing and regulator passages) under the oil filte= r pedestal of a Renesis? > > > Much appreciated. > > >=20 > > > Steve Izett > > > -- > > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Lis= t.html > >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.= html > --=20 > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag -- Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.ht= ml ------=_Part_127503_220977465.1533231347606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


In a message dated 8/2/2018 12:41:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net writes:

Lynn
I’m using sweeping AN= bends. I use Mobile 1 10W30 in Perth OAT temps 50-100. Should I change to = a higher weight?
In relation to the gallery are we talking about interna= l or at the top of the engine that connects with the oil filter pedestal?
Thanks for the wisdom.
Steve
When we got our first dose of Mobile= one, about 25 new police cruisers.  The oil people were using the cru= isers as a test of their oil. So the oil was going to be free to the city. = One of them didn't make it to the police garage <= /span> from the dealership for the addition of lights and such. Lost a rod = bearing. In the next 6 weeks we lost two more engines. The deal with Mobile= was called off and all of those cruisers lost the Mobile oil and went back= to some god awful cheap fleet oil that never failed. That faulty start up = was over 40 years ago.  While it is probably much improved since then = and is used in many fancy cars, my bet is that the car companies get it for= free or for very little just so Mobile gets years of after sales. I wouldn= 't put in my lawn mower engine. 
Cars and trucks are usually governed= so as wide open throttle cannot generate enough heat to out run their cool= ing systems. So, if you cross the Southwestern desert at full tilt, you can= probably make it in a stock car or truck.  
So the engine is not producing its f= ull HP. Very few people ever get to try this test. The point is that the ca= r engine has been operated well below its capability.  Now comes the n= ut cases that use car engines in airplanes. What is the most often seen pro= blem? Over heating. Where the 115 HP car seldom sees more than 2,000 RPM, o= r uses the full 115 HP, we now demand  160 HP from that same engine at= 5,500 RPM. And we want it for 3 hours. That would be very close to a 100% = duty cycle. 
Water and oil coolers are tested in = SAE designed test facilities.   Just guessing now......Tests piec= e sealed against the walls of the cell. Specific airflow and temp....Coolan= t in and out temps and pressures recorded... Performance recorded for thous= ands of combinations. The point is that if your installation does not resem= ble the SAE test cell, The rating of that cooler is pointless. It is always= lower than the rating.  So, is your cooler 90 degrees to the air flow= ?  Is it glued into the ducting with some kind of sealant?  Very = few installations are even close to adequate. Many really great looking ins= tallations don't work.  Work backwards from the BTU output you expect.= Size the coolers and add 50% or more.  More than 50% of the total hea= t load is in the oil.
Racing synthetics collect heat quick= ly, and give it up quickly. They are still oil at stupid high temps. They h= ave higher film strength than street oils. They have more anti foaming agen= ts than street oils.
The rotary sprays oil into the rotor= s to cool them. It gets foamed up real proper. This appears as lower oil pr= essure. Plus the spray jets are a big oil leak by themselves. Foam is an in= sulator. This makes that cooler even less efficient. Sorry, I run on some t= imes.
The front rotor bearing seems to fai= l more often than the rear. This is for racers or if the history of that en= gine is unknown. We pipe oil into the end of the gallery that goes straight= into the front main bearing. Do not plug any dowel pins.   10W30= oil that has a base flow rating of 10 weight oil. The 30 number is what th= e flow rating is at operating temp. Done with Polymers that link up at elev= ated temps. Polymers are not oil. So = we used 10-40 or 20-50 weight RedLine synthetic racing oil.  Looking f= or 160 degrees oil and 180 degrees coolant. Have a lot of rotary folks been= able to get down to those numbers? 
Lynn E. Hanover
  
 2 Aug 2018, at 9:51 am, Accoun= t lehanover lehanover@aol.com <= flyrotary@lancaironline.net<= /a>> wrote:
>
> The use of sweep 90s rather than drilled 90= s will perk things up. The use of a racing synthetic in 40 or 50 weight wil= l perk things up some more. Look into the gallery and see if the oil hole i= n the stationary gear is overhanging the gallery opening. Correct if requir= ed.
>
> Use only K&N filters. 350 pound burst cans. Friend= s don't let friends buy Fram filters......EVER.
> Lynn E. Hanover
= >
> In a message dated 8/1/2018 10:53:43 AM Eastern Standard Time= , flyrotary@lancaironline.ne= t writes:
>
> The hoses have to flow the total oil pumped.=
> Two galleries into engine, 1 to ocv, other to bearings so can be s= maller than hose size as neither flow all oil.
> Andrew
>
&= gt; On Wed, 1 Aug 2018 at 10:28 pm, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> I&= rsquo;m guessing the new system will be a total loop of AN10 1500mm through= 6 90deg fittings Mocal 44 row cooler (<6psi pressure drop) and remote s= pin on K&N oil filter.
>
> Steve Izett
>
> &g= t; On 1 Aug 2018, at 8:22 pm, Charlie England ceengland7@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
> >
>= ; > 10mm=3D ~0.394 inches
> > AN-8=3D 0.50 Inches
> > =
> > Do you have really long runs of oil lines?
> >
&= gt; > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 1:30 AM, Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
&g= t; > Hi guys
> > I measured the oil passage diameters (bearing = and regulator passages) under the oil filter pedestal of a Renesis today.> > They are 10mm in case anyone else was wondering.
> > I= don’t know what possessed me all those years ago, but I plumbed the = oil system in AN-8.
> > I contest Neil’s claim of being the = greatest idiot.
> > In the process of rebuilding it with a AN-10 p= lumbing and using a Mocal 44 row cooler.
> >
> > Still c= lose to finished!
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> &= gt; Steve Izett
> > Glasair Super IIRG Renesis 4 port RD-1C EC3 EM= 3
> >
> >
> > > On 31 Jul 2018, at 7:47 pm= , Stephen Izett stephen.izett@gm= ail.com <flyrotary@la= ncaironline.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys=
> > > Does anyone know off hand or have a rear housing handy t= o measure the oil passage diameters (bearing and regulator passages) under = the oil filter pedestal of a Renesis?
> > > Much appreciated.> > >
> > > Steve Izett
> > > --
>= ; > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > > Archive= and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81= /lists/flyrotary/List.html
> >
> >
> > --<= br>> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> > Archive and= UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lis= ts/flyrotary/List.html
> >
>
>
> --
&g= t; Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html
> --
> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag


= --
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/Li= st.html
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