From: "Kelly Troyer keltro@gmail.com" <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 11:33:24 -0500
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Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: Using Fluidyne oil coolers as Primary Radiator
To: Rotary motors in aircraft <flyrotary@lancaironline.net>
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Jeff,

   Would one of the "RYWire" 24 inch X 13 inch X 3.5 inch core radiators
provide more cooling in the approximately same size of the "Griffin".......
   They are pricey but I have two of the 24" X 9" X 3.5" for a Dyke Delta
that will fit between the ribs of the center section to the rear of the
firewall
outboard of the cockpit..........I will be using leading edge inlets sized
and
shaped using dimensions from a World War Two NACA report and basicly
a wedge duct to the inclined radiators.....Link to "RYWIRE" below...FWIW

http://www.rywire.com/product-p/radiator-custom.htm

Kelly Troyer


On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Whaley jwhaley@datacast.com <
flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

> Yes, I did consider tilting the front end down Vs up but what I remember
> is there becomes an interference with the 90 degree 1.5 inch hose
> connections into the radiator as they get up against the engine and mount
> ... it looks better from the "French curve" diffuser aspect ... the drawing
> isn't to scale either so there is also a limit to the down-tilt before the
> cowling gets really ugly.
> Jeff
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Whaley
> Sent: July-31-18 8:35 AM
> To: 'Rotary motors in aircraft'
> Subject: RE: Using Fluidyne oil coolers as Primary Radiator
>
> Charlie I agree with your analysis as interpreted from the drawing sent
> ... however it's not a surface doubling it's actually 210 total sq inches
> placed in a Vee (105 each half) Vs 247 total sq in placed in a slanted
> position. Yes in application there should be flow dividers to prevent all
> the air piling up at the back 3RD of VEE - I have done that leaf blower
> experiment with a couple of heater cores ... For the slanted single core it
> is also difficult to get air through the front half, combined with the fact
> that an engine/oil pan is parked on top.
>
> I will elaborate more: the air flow through the Vee has to make one "S"
> bend to pass through the cooler and exit the cowling, whereas with a
> slanted-up single radiator the air has to make one "S" bend to pass through
> the core and another "S" bend to make its way around the firewall and exit
> under the airframe, so from an airflow perspective the Vee is more
> efficient - as I see it.
>
> A concern is the flow rate through the two types of cores - I don't know
> the difference between a radiator core Vs an oil cooler core from the
> perspective of internal construction.  Are 0.75 inch lines large enough to
> flow enough coolant? There reason for consideration is the oil coolers are
> of the appropriate size and shape with AN fittings incorporated - though
> they each cost as much as one big radiator.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> 1st, let me say, 'I don't know'. :-)
>
> Having said that....
>
> If you're doubling the face area vs a single cooler perpendicular to the
> duct, then it will probably cool a bit better, but nowhere near twice as
> good. If you're feeding that configuration from a straight duct, my money
> would be on most of the flow being through the last third of each cooler.
> It looks like basically a two sided wedge, and I can say from experience
> that a wedge diffuser will do what I described, unless the downstream end
> is pinched down so it almost touches the face of the cooler. Perhaps a flow
> divider (more or less a diamond shape) to supply the pinch effect would
> balance the flow.
>
> It's easy enough to see the effect. Get a couple of junk coolers (anything
> would do to test, as long as they're the same cooler). Mount them in a
> cardboard duct using (wait for it...) duct tape, and feed it air using your
> leaf blower. Tie a thread (yard works better; it's lighter for it's cross
> section) to a thin stick, and move it around the exit faces. You'll quickly
> see where the air is moving through the cores (and where it's not).
>
> Charlie
>
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Jeff,<div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0Would one of the &qu=
ot;RYWire&quot; 24 inch X 13 inch X 3.5 inch core radiators=C2=A0</div><div=
>provide more cooling in the approximately same size of the &quot;Griffin&q=
uot;.......</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0They are pricey but I have two of the 24=
&quot; X 9&quot; X 3.5&quot; for a Dyke Delta</div><div>that will fit betwe=
en the ribs of the center section to the rear of the firewall</div><div>out=
board of the cockpit..........I will be using leading edge inlets sized and=
</div><div>shaped using dimensions from a World War Two NACA report and bas=
icly</div><div>a wedge duct to the inclined radiators.....Link to &quot;RYW=
IRE&quot; below...FWIW</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://www.rywir=
e.com/product-p/radiator-custom.htm">http://www.rywire.com/product-p/radiat=
or-custom.htm</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>Kelly Troyer</div><div><br><=
/div><div><br></div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Jeff Whaley <a href=3D"mailto:jwh=
aley@datacast.com">jwhaley@datacast.com</a> <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:flyrotary@lancaironline.net" target=3D"_blank">flyrotary@lancair=
online.net</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex">Yes, I did consider tilting the front end down Vs up but what I =
remember is there becomes an interference with the 90 degree 1.5 inch hose =
connections into the radiator as they get up against the engine and mount .=
.. it looks better from the &quot;French curve&quot; diffuser aspect ... th=
e drawing isn&#39;t to scale either so there is also a limit to the down-ti=
lt before the cowling gets really ugly.<br>
<span class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888">Jeff<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"gmail-HOEnZb"><div class=3D"gmail-h5"><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Jeff Whaley <br>
Sent: July-31-18 8:35 AM<br>
To: &#39;Rotary motors in aircraft&#39;<br>
Subject: RE: Using Fluidyne oil coolers as Primary Radiator<br>
<br>
Charlie I agree with your analysis as interpreted from the drawing sent ...=
 however it&#39;s not a surface doubling it&#39;s actually 210 total sq inc=
hes placed in a Vee (105 each half) Vs 247 total sq in placed in a slanted =
position. Yes in application there should be flow dividers to prevent all t=
he air piling up at the back 3RD of VEE - I have done that leaf blower expe=
riment with a couple of heater cores ... For the slanted single core it is =
also difficult to get air through the front half, combined with the fact th=
at an engine/oil pan is parked on top.<br>
<br>
I will elaborate more: the air flow through the Vee has to make one &quot;S=
&quot; bend to pass through the cooler and exit the cowling, whereas with a=
 slanted-up single radiator the air has to make one &quot;S&quot; bend to p=
ass through the core and another &quot;S&quot; bend to make its way around =
the firewall and exit under the airframe, so from an airflow perspective th=
e Vee is more efficient - as I see it.<br>
<br>
A concern is the flow rate through the two types of cores - I don&#39;t kno=
w the difference between a radiator core Vs an oil cooler core from the per=
spective of internal construction.=C2=A0 Are 0.75 inch lines large enough t=
o flow enough coolant? There reason for consideration is the oil coolers ar=
e of the appropriate size and shape with AN fittings incorporated - though =
they each cost as much as one big radiator.<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
1st, let me say, &#39;I don&#39;t know&#39;. :-)<br>
<br>
Having said that....<br>
<br>
If you&#39;re doubling the face area vs a single cooler perpendicular to th=
e duct, then it will probably cool a bit better, but nowhere near twice as =
good. If you&#39;re feeding that configuration from a straight duct, my mon=
ey would be on most of the flow being through the last third of each cooler=
. It looks like basically a two sided wedge, and I can say from experience =
that a wedge diffuser will do what I described, unless the downstream end i=
s pinched down so it almost touches the face of the cooler. Perhaps a flow =
divider (more or less a diamond shape) to supply the pinch effect would bal=
ance the flow.<br>
<br>
It&#39;s easy enough to see the effect. Get a couple of junk coolers (anyth=
ing would do to test, as long as they&#39;re the same cooler). Mount them i=
n a cardboard duct using (wait for it...) duct tape, and feed it air using =
your leaf blower. Tie a thread (yard works better; it&#39;s lighter for it&=
#39;s cross section) to a thin stick, and move it around the exit faces. Yo=
u&#39;ll quickly see where the air is moving through the cores (and where i=
t&#39;s not).<br>
<br>
Charlie<br>
<br>
</div></div><br><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature"><br></div>
</div></div></div>

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