X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=QoAc5h6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=dN5iwCf/ylE67y9kCFe9Qg==:117 a=D/Pw64ay7ub4iMhzg6MYOA==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=VqmtQeTB-p0A:10 a=R9QF1RCXAYgA:10 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=uwVInCnrmN_y8gZXvaYA:9 a=aHha_ogqTVJGYyMo:21 a=KzNVJgGXWbGZwihq:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=eQGi7YriTztLRb6NVJUA:9 a=oR6batuGu4-Xzi5Q:21 a=elqmBN0sc5W3J_xz:21 a=SXpjVXZv-91RyETE:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl0-f48.google.com ([209.85.160.48] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.6) with ESMTPS id 11455017 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2018 15:04:32 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.48; envelope-from=rwstracy@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl0-f48.google.com with SMTP id m1-v6so5962882plt.6 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2018 12:04:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date:subject:message-id :references:in-reply-to:to; bh=eCQQb3CreSegBzscdPmHgPMWyQW1xVu6I2165MMU9Oo=; b=MHOyYN+Lh+XxPsoEo4CxmXj8x3kWLShz1E7LLhSRAI75BFq6ZGd2Qq7RvFpGLxX5PR O5ns1+J8XFoAEihW6CTcf2XxnbOqWUs+CeQPzjY22x1Jw4l5IfPCa/zlsqpeV2OKWJnt GPqxcJJPArxEQE8Z8w/6amD+Nz4264djh/lzz8lZW4YvPb3JuSKg0EoDiQuTTr6JvBtW vHytGUptyhqoQy9UBY39T5oe7pyn+1b8UYUpGf/CKRgf0G8CchfdJUG4gIv09m2Q4B5x OyIA1q5LTQQXm48w/ewXUtpP99ZCO6M3hwZZZZxfqCrPMEbaQ2vOzGJIHXOQ6rh40NMs v5qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:date :subject:message-id:references:in-reply-to:to; bh=eCQQb3CreSegBzscdPmHgPMWyQW1xVu6I2165MMU9Oo=; b=Q4OocVGi6eh59kGxd9YWFVd1PWsYETt7oUzwFpcIi1T7SOjk1m7HoNaOBFWNV6PJYE TrK61tcp/SOt8CeKAPJjAhJjXKoM/nUz9Z1cERrBQuf3tna8Megk0I0gbpZ4NwDazgmW 1zVuOmle/efs2jd5hHzPMfOOlfx9PSAYOjbvkEPdtaNKIY48Yr2tUKnJSbAZUxkune6f DG4OlI7ZYwDNzK1P99QvRJR1Vs4rMhSEApcqN1qTKSaT5cLU1MOxfgMvYX/37C5aMdAg gZ3QW+xB1ota614/LBHcFN+qJl+ZMJl0n8e3cm9u23HWg2FZFH5wxpJuXyK7XZlKjVdx jhTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlECyssYMERDLcgwHBdM74vlZp/IkX1KOI9M7700G9NLVL3pRFzT OBx1CY23xiRGlnwe9kiMWLeUCVnj X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcuIpnS6dOUeBVrZt6ODyAGYThJMWijX7q9lcpmfVU5vgJLldU6x928+EgA3Ur8Kx8quGLzlw== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:50ec:: with SMTP id c41-v6mr17547060plj.269.1532977454004; Mon, 30 Jul 2018 12:04:14 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from [172.20.10.6] (2.sub-97-43-192.myvzw.com. [97.43.192.2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v82-v6sm18990188pfd.64.2018.07.30.12.04.05 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Jul 2018 12:04:12 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-7AF030DF-7C4E-4349-8605-84C9A6FAB344 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 13:03:57 -0600 Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling Message-Id: <2F210E5F-FC28-40C6-B29E-197082803267@gmail.com> References: In-Reply-To: To: Rotary motors in aircraft X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15F79) --Apple-Mail-7AF030DF-7C4E-4349-8605-84C9A6FAB344 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My EGT probes are more than three inches from the port so that might account= for some of the difference between what I and others see and Lynn's experie= nce. The hottest part of a flame is at the tip (like with a welding torch f= lame). Maybe the flame is longer than three inches coming out of the port? = IDK. Also, I=E2=80=99m still running lean or stoic. even on takeoff so that would= account for some of the difference too. Only when I really really need max= power do I richen the mixture. NA engines seem to tolerate this OK, turbos= would be a different story. We are generally restricted to 6000 or less rp= m on takeoff due to fixed pitch prop so That helps the engine live at higher= egt. All things being equal, the car racers have a 50% higher heat load at= 9000 rpm. They really need the fuel cooling of rich mixture. Tracy Sent from my iPad > On Jul 30, 2018, at 01:46, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: >=20 > Lynn, >=20 > Interesting as the EGT can only be lowered by reducing power -- or am= I mistaken?? The engines seem to be able to run at 1800 EGT plus, so I no l= onger worry. Your thoughts??? Neil Unger. >=20 >> On 7/30/2018 4:34 PM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: >> Might I suggest 1600 as the highest EGT. 160 degrees for oil, 180 degree= s for coolant and Best power. About 12.5 to 1 fuel to air. Once at cruise l= eave at full throttle and lean to lean of peak EGT and more to lean stumble= then richen to just smooth. All still at full throttle. Low fuel burn, low= er than peak EGT, longer range and lower oil and coolant temps. All of this= gets better with a high power ignition. Mallory High Fire or MSD. >> Lynn E Hanover >>=20 >> In a message dated 7/29/2018 9:27:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@= lancaironline.net writes: >>=20 >> Thanks Tracy, so nothing out of ordinary then. just did 1 circuit full at= throttle. Will try and take it higher next time & relax a= bit. Need to add a camera to record EM2 & efis as its all just information o= verload at the moment. Everything appeared fine on this post flight check, s= o thats a first. >> Need to go and re read all the manuals again as its been such a long time= since starting this project. I very nearly lost interest but glad now that I= didn=E2=80=99t. >> Andrew >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 at 8:43 pm, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com wrote: >>> Hi Andrew, >>> I regularly saw EGT temps at 1850 at full throttle on take with a 13B= . Were you at full throttle the whole time? They should come down at lower= power. EGTs are a bit lower on the Renesis. When boring holes at low thro= ttle (17=E2=80=9D hg.) I see around 1525. >>>=20 >>> Tracy >>>=20 >>> Sent from my iPad >>>=20 >>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 05:01, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: >>>=20 >>> Finally managed to fly again this afternoon, seems the new oil cooler ha= s done its magic now I found one that actually lets the oil through (Mocal 3= 4row). and is actually probably on the cold side for oil & coolant, but I c= an live with that for now. Can't give accurate figures as it was a bit busy a= round the airport, & EC2 has no data recording function. >>> So now that I didn't have to fixate one the oil temp gauge, I seemed to g= ravitate to the next set of flashing numbers, EGT at 1875 seemed a bit high,= adding fuel just made it run rough, did try leaning to the point of rpm dro= p, A/F went above 18:1 but EGTemps remained when I expected a drop due to th= e lower power. so not sure whats going on, maybe EGT probes are too close to= engine at 55mm from the ports and are still in the flame. >>> Would appreciate input from the group, otherwise I'm likely to cut the e= gt wires and fly in an ignorant bliss. >>> Cheers Andrew >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald christam= armc@gmail.com wrote: >>>> Hey excellent Neil >>>> Will be interesting to see how she flies tas when u get her fine tuned >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers >>>>=20 >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>=20 >>>> > On 27 Jul 2018, at 7:57 am, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com wrote: >>>> >=20 >>>> > Steve and Chris, >>>> >=20 >>>> > Finally got the fibreglass dry and f= ired up the revised cooling system and temp as follows Water 90 degrees, (on= thermostat) Oil 80 degrees, and oil to reduction box 70 degrees ( from oil= cooler). To fill other in on how stupid I can be, I had the original set u= p, that ran far too cool, so I also believed that I was getting massive cool= ing drag as my sportsman could only get 120 Kts instead of the usual 135 kts= . So I set about making up a very sexy cowling where the air from the radia= tor exhausted into the cowling. This put the gap between the radiator and t= he sump of only 4 - 6 inches, which worked well in that all it did was heat= the oil in the sump marvelously!! I was getting oil temps 20 degrees hotte= r than the water. So after booting the cat many times in frustration, I fin= ally realised that I had to exhaust the rads into the outside air as per the= original. Fibreglass in the middle of winter ????. >>>> >=20 >>>> > Final part of the jig saw was that when I removed the original set up= to mount my new engine and cowling, I found that I had never bolted the pos= itive lead to the back coil, and it has come off who knows when? Result I w= as flying with the back rotor on the trailing plug only!!! Hence the slower s= peed which I thought was the cooling drag! >>>> >=20 >>>> > So basically I am now right back where I started as per cooling exhau= sting into the outside air, A lot more experience that I did not need and c= onfirmation that I am an idiot! >>>> >=20 >>>> > Neil Unger. >>>> >=20 >>>> >=20 >>>> > -- >>>> > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> > Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary= /List.html >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ >>>> Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/L= ist.html >> --=20 >> Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag >=20 --Apple-Mail-7AF030DF-7C4E-4349-8605-84C9A6FAB344 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My EGT probes are more than three inches fr= om the port so that might account for some of the difference between what I a= nd others see and Lynn's experience.  The hottest part of a flame is at= the tip (like with a welding torch flame).  Maybe the flame is longer t= han three inches coming out of the port?  IDK.

Also,= I=E2=80=99m still running lean or stoic. even on takeoff so that would acco= unt for some of the difference too.  Only when I really really need max= power do I richen the mixture.  NA engines seem to tolerate this OK, t= urbos would be a different story.  We are generally restricted to 6000 o= r less rpm on takeoff due to fixed pitch prop so That helps the engine live a= t higher egt.  All things being equal, the car racers have a 50% higher= heat load at 9000 rpm.  They really need the fuel cooling of rich mixt= ure.

Tracy

Se= nt from my iPad

On Jul 30, 2018, at 01:46, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

=
=20 =20 =20

Lynn,

     Interesting as the EGT can only be lowered b= y reducing power -- or am I mistaken??  The engines seem to be able to run at 1800= EGT plus, so I no longer worry.  Your thoughts???  Neil Unge= r.


On 7/30/2018 4:34 PM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
Might I suggest 1600 as the  highest EGT. 160 degrees for oil, 180 degrees for coolant and Best power. About 12.5 to 1 fuel to air.  Once at cruise leave at ful= l throttle and lean to lean of  peak EGT and more to lean stumble then richen to just smooth. All still at full throttle.  Low fuel burn, lower than peak EGT, longer range and lower oil and coolant temps.  All of this gets better with a high power ignition. Mallory High Fire or MSD.
Lynn E Hanover

In a message dated 7/29/2018 9:27:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Thanks Tracy, so nothing out of ordinary then. just did 1 circuit full at throttle. Will try and take it higher next time & relax a bit. Need to add a camera to record EM2 & efis as its all just information overload at the moment. Everything appeared fine on this post flight check, so thats a first.
Need to go and re read all the manuals again as its been such a long time since starting this project. I very nearly lost interest but glad now that I didn=E2=80=99t.
Andrew


On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 at 8:43 pm, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.co= m <flyrotary@lancaironline.= net> wrote:
Hi Andrew,
   I regularly saw EGT temps at 1850 at= full throttle on take with a 13B.  Were you at full throttle the whole time?  They should come down= at lower power.  EGTs are a bit lower on the Renesis.  When boring holes at low throttle (17= =E2=80=9D hg.) I see around 1525.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 29, 2018, at 05:01, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyr= otary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Finally managed to fly again this afternoon, seems the new oil cooler has done its magic now I found one that actually lets the oil through (Mocal 34row).  and is actually probably on th= e cold side for oil & coolant, but I can live with that for now. Can't give accurate figures as it was a bit busy around the airport, & EC2 has no data recording function.
So now that I didn't have to fixate one the oil temp gauge, I seemed to gravitate to the next set of flashing numbers, EGT at 1875 seemed a bit high, adding fuel just made it run rough, did try leaning to the point of rpm drop, A/F went above 18:1 but EGTemps remained when I expected a drop due to the lower power. so not sure whats going on, maybe EGT probes are too close to engine at 55mm from the ports and are still in the flame.
Would appreciate input from the group, otherwise I'm likely to cut the egt wires and fly in an ignorant bliss.
Cheers Andrew
=




On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald chr= istamarmc@gmail.com <f= lyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hey excellent Neil
Will be interesting to see how she flies tas when u get her fine tuned

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Jul 2018, at 7:57 am, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Steve and Chris,
>
>        &nbs= p;                          Finally g= ot the fibreglass dry and fired up the revised cooling system and temp as follows Water 90 degrees, (on thermostat) Oil  80 degrees, an= d oil to reduction box 70 degrees ( from oil cooler).  To fill other in on how stupid I can be,  I had the original set up,= that ran far too cool, so I also believed that I was getting massive cooling drag as my sportsman could only get 120 Kts instead of the usual 135 kts.  So I set about making up a very sexy cowling where the air from the radiator exhausted into the cowling.  This put the gap between the radiator and the sump of only 4 - 6 inches,  which worked well in that all it did was heat the oil in the sump marvelously!!  I was getting oi= l temps 20 degrees hotter than the water.  So after booting the ca= t many times in frustration, I finally realised that I had to exhaust the rads into the outside air as per the original.  Fibreglass in the middle of winter ????.
>
> Final part of the jig saw was that when I removed the original set up to mount my new engine and cowling, I found that I had never bolted the positive lead to the back coil, and it has come off who knows when?  Result I was flying with the back rotor on the trailing plug only!!! Hence the slower speed which I thought was the cooling drag!
>
> So basically I am now right back where I started as per cooling exhausting into the outside air,  A lot more experience that I did not need and confirmation that I am an idiot!
>
> Neil Unger.
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   = http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

=20
= --Apple-Mail-7AF030DF-7C4E-4349-8605-84C9A6FAB344--