X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=QoAc5h6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=AOCCVQ6hkxu93JnlNVR1lg==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=R9QF1RCXAYgA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=3oc9M9_CAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=4IdMKJeAnJUmQ7oR-lUA:9 a=yq9m35N9Z2h2oJWs:21 a=yDb2H1kZjKWuW-jj:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=kMTYsmGT9pEYwBmZU0IA:9 a=_lWsaf6fVdwOLkTR:21 a=O2h48tlE2abvbqkh:21 a=ICSddOgxvlFsqBRX:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pg1-f181.google.com ([209.85.215.181] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.6) with ESMTPS id 11451752 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Mon, 30 Jul 2018 03:47:09 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.215.181; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pg1-f181.google.com with SMTP id y5-v6so6794614pgv.1 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2018 00:47:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=Ke9QpRrZDC2WdO8xkjcyK4I6AzhRFaz408pjwvPKZpg=; b=eCbauFyoWRXXYwp3sqM86lzZEaB9qS0bSEEE1eGtPBcBcy6+r1lFP1MQ4kHIYocy0n mkqt/oxRX0E+ukIM4T5GtJIRxXXdmv37f2CKPjpSTDPSveNdTr7APi96XQoLMzr6w8QM CyjcXtUbzYFza34YLBu41EWfcSOxnVJ0564ZdAyKCcCRYkHNwp5cGNJu+ZTHqkq73sHa +XMaoHoALCuyTEzD1jqpRS2EEHQCsgtl6IRwDgMucCr8/DseQk3AABtI0vW2OlKn0whv tcrMYInV+Jmz3XrEKnKllWJQJNe6KfUL8i1oCguw7xEJMfZtXf62uDP+sNYQdIoUM+1b AWsA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=Ke9QpRrZDC2WdO8xkjcyK4I6AzhRFaz408pjwvPKZpg=; b=RyILP/8uM2nRduVE3/efHIPAPV77QINnNTJjuQRGlE9odyQ0H9rKafPrU9LE/UkBqt rzDjxxiRgSfcKSMcH7k3RRwjy4uTXqS9rG0aaJMLUo3EVt+Rtp35s4yQ4D1nDypDcfgS 8KzMGAs3/udMG2EvaW8tEYHfJaEe4VgXtfw30+1KxIWPtb0Z+w7aARAyolLjquoD/XRO 7nzu8VUnJdKO8dT842FiPua6IcXx2VqqrUMjdvvIpwdXRkfHAsiN59zUY5of8RcmZYqL y6gcNWXYKAj1cAQL7aPiCwiGdnnYVPHLYMPAdkT1swN/1CzjIlHVQkC6SzshtAn7ihkF 0wOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGFIKQhHgkENP2UWBGsg90RQjLl7K5Ya3Aa1dexSZUirRiF2t2a ScCoZUVqPyfFyf8r7RJW2wv0Py5T X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpfjR7k4DFwbpc0GEGVp/fVYriRMBsGbkYdUTUF13PEgdDZdlLZwbr0ap7NYI5LZllPEQ5YIXQ== X-Received: by 2002:a62:c288:: with SMTP id w8-v6mr16805053pfk.92.1532936811446; Mon, 30 Jul 2018 00:46:51 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.103] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e24-v6sm13614098pfi.70.2018.07.30.00.46.48 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 30 Jul 2018 00:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 17:46:45 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------10BA8C6C38791C9A4C70BA53" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------10BA8C6C38791C9A4C70BA53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lynn,      Interesting as the EGT can only be lowered by reducing power -- or am I mistaken??  The engines seem to be able to run at 1800 EGT plus, so I no longer worry.  Your thoughts???  Neil Unger. On 7/30/2018 4:34 PM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote: > Might I suggest 1600 as the  highest EGT. 160 degrees for oil, 180 > degrees for coolant and Best power. About 12.5 to 1 fuel to air.  Once > at cruise leave at full throttle and lean to lean of  peak EGT and > more to lean stumble then richen to just smooth. All still at full > throttle.  Low fuel burn, lower than peak EGT, longer range and lower > oil and coolant temps.  All of this gets better with a high power > ignition. Mallory High Fire or MSD. > Lynn E Hanover > > In a message dated 7/29/2018 9:27:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, > flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes: > > Thanks Tracy, so nothing out of ordinary then. just did 1 circuit > full at throttle. Will try and take it higher next time & relax a > bit. Need to add a camera to record EM2 & efis as its all just > information overload at the moment. Everything appeared fine on > this post flight check, so thats a first. > Need to go and re read all the manuals again as its been such a > long time since starting this project. I very nearly lost interest > but glad now that I didn’t. > Andrew > > > On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 at 8:43 pm, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Hi Andrew, >    I regularly saw EGT temps at 1850 at full throttle on take > with a 13B.  Were you at full throttle the whole time?  They > should come down at lower power.  EGTs are a bit lower on the > Renesis.  When boring holes at low throttle (17” hg.) I see > around 1525. > > Tracy > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jul 29, 2018, at 05:01, Andrew Martin > andrew@martinag.com.au > > wrote: > > Finally managed to fly again this afternoon, seems the new > oil cooler has done its magic now I found one that > actually lets the oil through (Mocal 34row).  and is > actually probably on the cold side for oil & coolant, but > I can live with that for now. Can't give accurate figures > as it was a bit busy around the airport, & EC2 has no data > recording function. > So now that I didn't have to fixate one the oil temp > gauge, I seemed to gravitate to the next set of flashing > numbers, EGT at 1875 seemed a bit high, adding fuel just > made it run rough, did try leaning to the point of rpm > drop, A/F went above 18:1 but EGTemps remained when I > expected a drop due to the lower power. so not sure whats > going on, maybe EGT probes are too close to engine at 55mm > from the ports and are still in the flame. > Would appreciate input from the group, otherwise I'm > likely to cut the egt wires and fly in an ignorant bliss. > Cheers Andrew > > > > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Christian And Tamara > Mcdonald christamarmc@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > Hey excellent Neil > Will be interesting to see how she flies tas when u > get her fine tuned > > Cheers > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 27 Jul 2018, at 7:57 am, Neil Unger > 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > > > > Steve and Chris, > > > >        Finally got the fibreglass dry and fired up > the revised cooling system and temp as follows Water > 90 degrees, (on thermostat) Oil  80 degrees, and oil > to reduction box 70 degrees ( from oil cooler).  To > fill other in on how stupid I can be,  I had the > original set up, that ran far too cool, so I also > believed that I was getting massive cooling drag as my > sportsman could only get 120 Kts instead of the usual > 135 kts. So I set about making up a very sexy cowling > where the air from the radiator exhausted into the > cowling.  This put the gap between the radiator and > the sump of only 4 - 6 inches, which worked well in > that all it did was heat the oil in the sump > marvelously!!  I was getting oil temps 20 degrees > hotter than the water.  So after booting the cat many > times in frustration, I finally realised that I had to > exhaust the rads into the outside air as per the > original.  Fibreglass in the middle of winter ????. > > > > Final part of the jig saw was that when I removed > the original set up to mount my new engine and > cowling, I found that I had never bolted the positive > lead to the back coil, and it has come off who knows > when? Result I was flying with the back rotor on the > trailing plug only!!! Hence the slower speed which I > thought was the cooling drag! > > > > So basically I am now right back where I started as > per cooling exhausting into the outside air,  A lot > more experience that I did not need and confirmation > that I am an idiot! > > > > Neil Unger. > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > -- > Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag > --------------10BA8C6C38791C9A4C70BA53 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Lynn,

     Interesting as the EGT can only be lowered by reducing power -- or am I mistaken??  The engines seem to be able to run at 1800 EGT plus, so I no longer worry.  Your thoughts???  Neil Unger.


On 7/30/2018 4:34 PM, Accountlehanover lehanover@aol.com wrote:
Might I suggest 1600 as the  highest EGT. 160 degrees for oil, 180 degrees for coolant and Best power. About 12.5 to 1 fuel to air.  Once at cruise leave at full throttle and lean to lean of  peak EGT and more to lean stumble then richen to just smooth. All still at full throttle.  Low fuel burn, lower than peak EGT, longer range and lower oil and coolant temps.  All of this gets better with a high power ignition. Mallory High Fire or MSD.
Lynn E Hanover

In a message dated 7/29/2018 9:27:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, flyrotary@lancaironline.net writes:

Thanks Tracy, so nothing out of ordinary then. just did 1 circuit full at throttle. Will try and take it higher next time & relax a bit. Need to add a camera to record EM2 & efis as its all just information overload at the moment. Everything appeared fine on this post flight check, so thats a first.
Need to go and re read all the manuals again as its been such a long time since starting this project. I very nearly lost interest but glad now that I didn’t.
Andrew


On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 at 8:43 pm, Tracy Crook rwstracy@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hi Andrew,
   I regularly saw EGT temps at 1850 at full throttle on take with a 13B.  Were you at full throttle the whole time?  They should come down at lower power.  EGTs are a bit lower on the Renesis.  When boring holes at low throttle (17” hg.) I see around 1525.

Tracy

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 29, 2018, at 05:01, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:

Finally managed to fly again this afternoon, seems the new oil cooler has done its magic now I found one that actually lets the oil through (Mocal 34row).  and is actually probably on the cold side for oil & coolant, but I can live with that for now. Can't give accurate figures as it was a bit busy around the airport, & EC2 has no data recording function.
So now that I didn't have to fixate one the oil temp gauge, I seemed to gravitate to the next set of flashing numbers, EGT at 1875 seemed a bit high, adding fuel just made it run rough, did try leaning to the point of rpm drop, A/F went above 18:1 but EGTemps remained when I expected a drop due to the lower power. so not sure whats going on, maybe EGT probes are too close to engine at 55mm from the ports and are still in the flame.
Would appreciate input from the group, otherwise I'm likely to cut the egt wires and fly in an ignorant bliss.
Cheers Andrew




On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald christamarmc@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hey excellent Neil
Will be interesting to see how she flies tas when u get her fine tuned

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Jul 2018, at 7:57 am, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Steve and Chris,
>
>                                   Finally got the fibreglass dry and fired up the revised cooling system and temp as follows Water 90 degrees, (on thermostat) Oil  80 degrees, and oil to reduction box 70 degrees ( from oil cooler).  To fill other in on how stupid I can be,  I had the original set up, that ran far too cool, so I also believed that I was getting massive cooling drag as my sportsman could only get 120 Kts instead of the usual 135 kts.  So I set about making up a very sexy cowling where the air from the radiator exhausted into the cowling.  This put the gap between the radiator and the sump of only 4 - 6 inches,  which worked well in that all it did was heat the oil in the sump marvelously!!  I was getting oil temps 20 degrees hotter than the water.  So after booting the cat many times in frustration, I finally realised that I had to exhaust the rads into the outside air as per the original.  Fibreglass in the middle of winter ????.
>
> Final part of the jig saw was that when I removed the original set up to mount my new engine and cowling, I found that I had never bolted the positive lead to the back coil, and it has come off who knows when?  Result I was flying with the back rotor on the trailing plug only!!! Hence the slower speed which I thought was the cooling drag!
>
> So basically I am now right back where I started as per cooling exhausting into the outside air,  A lot more experience that I did not need and confirmation that I am an idiot!
>
> Neil Unger.
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html
--
Regards Andrew Martin Martin Ag

--------------10BA8C6C38791C9A4C70BA53--