X-Junk-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 [] X-Cloudmark-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=QoAc5h6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=47M+0/tYQlKtBM1ptKWn/w==:117 a=55z/sxGcUIPVrBMYBb4HRw==:17 a=x7bEGLp0ZPQA:10 a=_Z_nqdSeG58A:10 a=R9QF1RCXAYgA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=eRLigfuSAAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=Ia-xEzejAAAA:8 a=7g1VtSJxAAAA:8 a=0EDpgoOOSgp8ZUO5Ol4A:9 a=E-gnYnNmDpYhVesw:21 a=_p7UIZ0SDC8KbZGd:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=Qa1je4BO31QA:10 a=gvSQh4r-fQ0A:10 a=4PR2P7QzAAAA:8 a=bCBu6_vlqaC-CTdSe_kA:9 a=T5YTHQGszIMUVa9j:21 a=jf_BGmBmqD5oUl1e:21 a=Mw_4kIxVgt2-mdWq:21 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=BfhXYjFvZD4iae-mNffo:22 a=Urk15JJjZg1Xo0ryW_k8:22 a=grOzbf7U_OpcSX4AJOnl:22 a=4dqwQCo7Po2mVW515mGf:22 From: "Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com" Received: from mail-pl0-f43.google.com ([209.85.160.43] verified) by logan.com (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 6.2.6) with ESMTPS id 11451182 for flyrotary@lancaironline.net; Sun, 29 Jul 2018 18:41:28 -0400 Received-SPF: pass receiver=logan.com; client-ip=209.85.160.43; envelope-from=12348ung@gmail.com Received: by mail-pl0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 6-v6so4604771plb.0 for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2018 15:41:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language; bh=kDOrxFh1kJTBe6yzKw2Rrl51dSVtRCt3TU6Sv8SlEng=; b=U/DVJxwErClwhMSs3a7q2VB/gF5O7oipbURMIoTJlHX61tXtvZh031K0jGCwF5jdp0 T9fyueMcBiSEl17Dwtbui4AzD41FQPmCA7AULJ8gQL8lmJZnv7FQ3u4Q3pFoyLdXMmAu 3flxqwTrMckRvjAjyfIcWj3Zp5JL1Dbtd+CaxxS+KXKOAObMNm2g7HzOz8VKvJ3RqJsO UsCbmhpsywq5Ka661O0bCAGz3F2oxH+BzNoG2noj1hbjVRuA1jWppsR4P8Gj2lOr9Su7 Yg5UHkVALy10wLNxy17QZW/zntRxiT6VPa0wlcUR9929xR/+6AZToDexRX8dAR5sc0Gm mIcg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=kDOrxFh1kJTBe6yzKw2Rrl51dSVtRCt3TU6Sv8SlEng=; b=A+Qy2sp8huIfhWi7bqBT5WPsICQbwskzrgh6IXzP0Jy5vsKJG/R3F2qDF2Ib0FPDjB KriEdQnRFoCQVp9/4k+UngFAUV6mTssOUDkv9DMA5H9/8z+u8JyS68dA49pidSRDbDfd A7jUumRXPdTdeISSfweaLbIMqx1iYqfANz7DwMk5GvAqT9RGpae9Ff9gg8O7MDfvuO4K sjNJnQXk+YgvWFQ3Tr1PbaJan23Xg1f4dtjNyNBMpzYbRQrl94eU+oMAvFShhlKLIfQk q0Z9CWQIhYRyL8GKLvwy9hh2ZM6rbLAbij/TCXPOMlWwwiPPUy/bto8OjtFywBANhNTL TfHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHLWWIS7i1ONrDZBp7QTgDpL6urQ8Sub/as91myUq4DPw+7IT73 iV8md4JGEB8cd4XLG9Va4qXevkfS X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpexvJuh8dDxyA6GQubyDJj7iptAn0BjNM8NAWtEheee6uV+V2j8QyKF4h/LOnCHzqbhZDdY5Q== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b40c:: with SMTP id x12-v6mr14324708plr.163.1532904070304; Sun, 29 Jul 2018 15:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <12348ung@gmail.com> Received: from [192.168.0.103] ([103.198.24.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f6-v6sm19246412pgf.52.2018.07.29.15.41.07 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 29 Jul 2018 15:41:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [FlyRotary] Re: cooling To: Rotary motors in aircraft References: Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 08:41:05 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BC4757046B28B4BE89CD88CA" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BC4757046B28B4BE89CD88CA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andrew,                   Egt seems to get that hot regardless.  I went through possibly 4 sets of EGT probes and managed to burn them all up. Spacing was the same as you have, 55mm from flange where they are supposed to be.  Lost much sleep over the hot exhaust and trying to get that down.  Ended up deciding that it is what it is and the EGT gauges just gave me more to needlessly worry about and it was unfixable.  So next time I just did like most and did not bother with an EGT probe at all.  The engine still runs and I no longer have that worry. I should have added that when I did my heat figures, OAT was only 22 degrees.  Another alteration I did was to enlarge the inlet from 50 sq inches to 80 sq inches.  Summer will dictate at 45 degrees OAT!! Back to the EGT, all the racing experts say that at high power you enrichen the fuel to cool the EGT.   Tried all that but at full power I got the same hot temps.  Like Chris I pulled the engine apart and there was no apparent damage at all.  So I am now in bliss. Neil. On 7/29/2018 9:01 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote: > Finally managed to fly again this afternoon, seems the new oil cooler > has done its magic now I found one that actually lets the oil through > (Mocal 34row).  and is actually probably on the cold side for oil & > coolant, but I can live with that for now. Can't give accurate figures > as it was a bit busy around the airport, & EC2 has no data recording > function. > So now that I didn't have to fixate one the oil temp gauge, I seemed > to gravitate to the next set of flashing numbers, EGT at 1875 seemed a > bit high, adding fuel just made it run rough, did try leaning to the > point of rpm drop, A/F went above 18:1 but EGTemps remained when I > expected a drop due to the lower power. so not sure whats going on, > maybe EGT probes are too close to engine at 55mm from the ports and > are still in the flame. > Would appreciate input from the group, otherwise I'm likely to cut the > egt wires and fly in an ignorant bliss. > Cheers Andrew > > > > > On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald > christamarmc@gmail.com > > wrote: > > Hey excellent Neil > Will be interesting to see how she flies tas when u get her fine tuned > > Cheers > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 27 Jul 2018, at 7:57 am, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com > > wrote: > > > > Steve and Chris, > > > >                                   Finally got the fibreglass dry > and fired up the revised cooling system and temp as follows Water > 90 degrees, (on thermostat) Oil  80 degrees, and oil to reduction > box 70 degrees ( from oil cooler).  To fill other in on how stupid > I can be,  I had the original set up, that ran far too cool, so I > also believed that I was getting massive cooling drag as my > sportsman could only get 120 Kts instead of the usual 135 kts.  So > I set about making up a very sexy cowling where the air from the > radiator exhausted into the cowling.  This put the gap between the > radiator and the sump of only 4 - 6 inches,  which worked well in > that all it did was heat the oil in the sump marvelously!!  I was > getting oil temps 20 degrees hotter than the water.  So after > booting the cat many times in frustration, I finally realised that > I had to exhaust the rads into the outside air as per the > original.  Fibreglass in the middle of winter ????. > > > > Final part of the jig saw was that when I removed the original > set up to mount my new engine and cowling, I found that I had > never bolted the positive lead to the back coil, and it has come > off who knows when?  Result I was flying with the back rotor on > the trailing plug only!!! Hence the slower speed which I thought > was the cooling drag! > > > > So basically I am now right back where I started as per cooling > exhausting into the outside air,  A lot more experience that I did > not need and confirmation that I am an idiot! > > > > Neil Unger. > > > > > > -- > > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > -- > Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ > Archive and UnSub: > http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html > > > --------------BC4757046B28B4BE89CD88CA Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Andrew,

                  Egt seems to get that hot regardless.  I went through possibly 4 sets of EGT probes and managed to burn them all up. Spacing was the same as you have, 55mm from flange where they are supposed to be.  Lost much sleep over the hot exhaust and trying to get that down.  Ended up deciding that it is what it is and the EGT gauges just gave me more to needlessly worry about and it was unfixable.  So next time I just did like most and did not bother with an EGT probe at all.  The engine still runs and I no longer have that worry. 

I should have added that when I did my heat figures, OAT was only 22 degrees.  Another alteration I did was to enlarge the inlet from 50 sq inches to 80 sq inches.  Summer will dictate at 45 degrees OAT!!

Back to the EGT, all the racing experts say that at high power you enrichen the fuel to cool the EGT.   Tried all that but at full power I got the same hot temps.  Like Chris I pulled the engine apart and there was no apparent damage at all.  So I am now in bliss.

Neil.


On 7/29/2018 9:01 PM, Andrew Martin andrew@martinag.com.au wrote:
Finally managed to fly again this afternoon, seems the new oil cooler has done its magic now I found one that actually lets the oil through (Mocal 34row).  and is actually probably on the cold side for oil & coolant, but I can live with that for now. Can't give accurate figures as it was a bit busy around the airport, & EC2 has no data recording function.
So now that I didn't have to fixate one the oil temp gauge, I seemed to gravitate to the next set of flashing numbers, EGT at 1875 seemed a bit high, adding fuel just made it run rough, did try leaning to the point of rpm drop, A/F went above 18:1 but EGTemps remained when I expected a drop due to the lower power. so not sure whats going on, maybe EGT probes are too close to engine at 55mm from the ports and are still in the flame.
Would appreciate input from the group, otherwise I'm likely to cut the egt wires and fly in an ignorant bliss.
Cheers Andrew




On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:04 AM, Christian And Tamara Mcdonald christamarmc@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
Hey excellent Neil
Will be interesting to see how she flies tas when u get her fine tuned

Cheers

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Jul 2018, at 7:57 am, Neil Unger 12348ung@gmail.com <flyrotary@lancaironline.net> wrote:
>
> Steve and Chris,
>
>                                   Finally got the fibreglass dry and fired up the revised cooling system and temp as follows Water 90 degrees, (on thermostat) Oil  80 degrees, and oil to reduction box 70 degrees ( from oil cooler).  To fill other in on how stupid I can be,  I had the original set up, that ran far too cool, so I also believed that I was getting massive cooling drag as my sportsman could only get 120 Kts instead of the usual 135 kts.  So I set about making up a very sexy cowling where the air from the radiator exhausted into the cowling.  This put the gap between the radiator and the sump of only 4 - 6 inches,  which worked well in that all it did was heat the oil in the sump marvelously!!  I was getting oil temps 20 degrees hotter than the water.  So after booting the cat many times in frustration, I finally realised that I had to exhaust the rads into the outside air as per the original.  Fibreglass in the middle of winter ????.
>
> Final part of the jig saw was that when I removed the original set up to mount my new engine and cowling, I found that I had never bolted the positive lead to the back coil, and it has come off who knows when?  Result I was flying with the back rotor on the trailing plug only!!! Hence the slower speed which I thought was the cooling drag!
>
> So basically I am now right back where I started as per cooling exhausting into the outside air,  A lot more experience that I did not need and confirmation that I am an idiot!
>
> Neil Unger.
>
>
> --
> Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
> Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html

--
Homepage:  http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive and UnSub:   http://mail.lancaironline.net:81/lists/flyrotary/List.html


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